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Post by trappnman on May 31, 2004 6:30:15 GMT -6
To guide: shows and directs the way; to direct the motion of something; to regulate and manage
synonyms are: to lead, to steer, to pilot
IMNSHO, any trapper that can call himself a successfull trapper- uses guides. These guides can be crude and obvious or almost invisible and subtle, depending on what you are trapping and the circumstances.
But we all guide- and in canine trapping, guiding comes to the forefront.
I recently read where someone said that guiding was an invention of demo trappers- that "real" trappers didn't need guides, they just set the trap where the animal is going to step.
As proof, he relayed a story about a famous trapper that he said believed the same.
The more I thought about it, the sillier it became.
First of all- I saw a coyote video from that famous trapper-- and if any watch it and don't think guiding was stressed- my advice would be to next time watch it sober.
Secondly- anyone that thinks guiding isn't needed for coyote trapping will never (again in MHO) be any kind of coyote trapper. He might catch a few coyotes occasionally- but he has stopped growing as a canine trapper. I would think bad years would be the norm with this kind of thinking.
A comment was once made about another famous trapper from Montana and his red fox catch. After travelling on the line with this trapper, the observer later commented- "He caught a ton of red fox- and missed just as many more because he didn't guide"
So- maybe in very high population areas on fox you don't need to guide to catch em' but if you want to catch coyotes consistently over the years- you will be guiding.
So- as a "real" trapper that also enjoys gving demos ( I've never volunteered, I've always been asked, and gladly accept) let me go on the record-
GUIDNG IS NOT A GIMMICK DEVELOPED BY "DEMO" TRAPPERS- its one of the fundamental methods of taking fur, esp. coyotes.
To think otherwise is ludicrous.
And thats a fact, Jack!
Comments?
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Post by ChrisM on May 31, 2004 6:53:59 GMT -6
Nice post Gappa! "Demo gimmick" huh? Never heard that before! I study the location, considering any natural guides present. Wind direction and coyotes approach path and use this info to determine the exact trap pacement. Then I guide everything else to increase my odds! ;D I will confess tho that when I find a location that is well guided naturaly with tuffs of sod, rock, cactus etc... that all I have to do is bed a trap into place.....I leave feeling rather sly! Same thing with slippin a blind set in to a perfect spot on a trail. Makes me feel like a "real" trapper! I actually look for these type naturally guided spots and will move the attractors location to take advantage of them.
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Post by trappnman on May 31, 2004 7:03:13 GMT -6
"I will confess tho that when I find a location that is well guided naturaly with tuffs of sod, rock, cactus etc... that all I have to do is bed a trap into place.....I leave feeling rather sly! Same thing with slippin a blind set in to a perfect spot on a trail. Makes me feel like a "real" trapper!
I actually look for these type naturally guided spots and will move the attractors location to take advantage of them."
I counldn't agree more Chris- dust spots in hayfields around here lend themselves to natural pathways. But we still are using guides- just not imported ones.
I like that feeling rather sly.....
I just started thinking more on trail sets- and actually caught a few on them- and thats about how I felt- that I had "stole" a coyote.
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Post by BK on May 31, 2004 7:04:40 GMT -6
During the fur boom I used 2 traps for fox,11/2 cs and 4 mont.dogless in late season, or when I felt I would have coyotes at the set. On the 4s I used screen covers,.........and with the 4s guiding was of less concern.
While on the subject of guides, for the largest part that's how I regard the jaws of a conibear trap. Many trappers heap so much cover on their conibears trying to hide them,....... critters take an easier route.
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Post by dj88ryr on May 31, 2004 7:28:48 GMT -6
I do guide, but I am not particularly good at it, I am better at the actual set, but guiding from a distance to change stride or direction, is something I hope I pick up at the demo day. The more I trap here in PA, the more I am of the opinion, that I had it made in NH, I didn't know half as much as I do now and easily caught 3 or 4 times the fur,...... animal densities!!
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Post by Cliffy on May 31, 2004 7:32:30 GMT -6
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Post by trappnman on May 31, 2004 7:40:34 GMT -6
LOL- it happens to us all Cliffy!
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Post by BK on May 31, 2004 8:03:00 GMT -6
I should more than likely read this thread rather than try to add to it, as I'm shure you guys that chase canines predominately know your stuff, and this isin't my long suit. But,............ one thing I think I figgured out , and ben doing more of the last 4 years or so is using stuff that sticks up a lot for guides late in the season. So then when I get a couple inches of snow it still works. I even use short sticks,........ok I'm done.
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Post by k9 on May 31, 2004 8:08:42 GMT -6
Droppings, subtle edges, tufts of grass, bean stubble, trenching, rocks, little higher/little lower can all mean the difference between a track at the set and a coyote at the set.
I use some form of guiding at every set. Sometimes so subtle, that only the coyote can appreciate it, other times it is fairly obvious that I am trying to lead a coyote into an ambush.
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Post by Clefus on May 31, 2004 8:18:46 GMT -6
I think at times I use it more "subconciously" at certain sets...and at sets for different species it's more blatant.... I may have to keep this post in mind next season...also i'll have to see others methods at canine day...
As far as demo gimmicks....i never really heard of that one...why wouldnt one want to increase their odds at a set....If I stick a trap in....I want to catch a critter...not check an empty one all the time(although it does happen ;D)
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Post by thebeav2 on May 31, 2004 8:19:09 GMT -6
I'm big on using tuffts of grass for guiding,I might even transplant 2 or 3 to get the job done. And don't forget the use of urine and lures as guides,or the direction or angle of your attractor.
Beav
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Post by Timber on May 31, 2004 9:04:45 GMT -6
I also use guiding at all of my sets, I use in the form of tufts of grass, small rocks, corn cobs, scat, ect. to help the animal find a place to put it's paw or I should say where not to put it's paw. I also use guiding in the way of land features such as rivers, roads, trails, tree lines, powerlines ect.. to help determine where I should put the set. There are few better guides then the ones mother nature put there. I should say that I consider a guide anything that causes animal to respond to it. Such as a tree branch that has fallen across a trail, it is a natural guide that causes animals to move to one side of the trail and hopefully into my waiting snare or trap. I would rather use skill in guiding to get an animal to step on the pans vs. luck that it will step exactly on the right spot. I like to give them no choice, if you want to see whats in the hole you must put your paws here. It is important to note that I generally set guides for more than one paw. After my set is done and blended I spend a sec to think if a coyote had his paw on the pan, where would his other paws be. On blind sets I want the animal stepping correctly before he gets to my trap so I will use guides to change it's cadence. Stepping sticks are a good example of this.
I agree with you guys that when the right situation presents itself and I don't have to use guides, I do feel as if I stole one.
Tim
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Post by 17kiss on May 31, 2004 11:55:23 GMT -6
I use heavy guiding on cat sets and when the situation calls for it , but by using the type set that I use alot of guiding is done by the set itself , but dirtridges are guiding . Unnatural guiding no , subtle guiding yes.
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Post by trappnman on May 31, 2004 12:23:21 GMT -6
I'm the first to admit that I use zero face, shoulder guides...but thats because they are for the most part impractical in my type of trapping.
In timber, brush, marshes- I would be more apt to experiment with it.
One other aspect of guiding that isn't used much is small holes and verticla sticks- I don't use it much, but try to every now and then
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Post by JLDakota on May 31, 2004 12:40:19 GMT -6
Its hard to disagree with importance of guiding on everything we set a trap or snare for if we think about it. I know an excellent coyote trapper in Ohio who uses a little finger sized weed or stick at least 16" long as a "cheek guide" beside the front edge of his hole as Edge references, to line the coyotes body up on the the hole and his corresponding pan placement. The majority of his coyotes are caught by the left front foot as is his intention based upon the way he has set the coyote up to be "guided". Jim
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Post by z on May 31, 2004 13:06:03 GMT -6
I think many guide without even thinking about it........ A row of crops, A fenceline, Drainage, Razorback, Highway, Railroad tracks, etc..... Take the crops down and the line of travel remains "basically" the same........Hard edges etc. Face, shoulder and or whisker guides subtly steer the critter while leaving the ground uncluttered......Think about it! Did I mention Big traps........ ! Timing the position of the guides with the discovery of the set (If that makes any sense) .....Setting up the feet with a "brush" to the snoz.......... Jim Severing got me to really thinking on this a few years ago. For that Jim......Thanks! Good post Steve! Zz
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Post by trappnman on May 31, 2004 13:12:56 GMT -6
99% of the time, flat sets in farmland open fields would be unnatural as heck with shoulder and cheek guides-
and since most of my sets are flat sets.....
On a flat set- I believe in most instances it would simply move the yote around the other side-
Why do feet guides have to be "all cluttered up"?
subtle man, subtle.
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Post by k9 on May 31, 2004 14:48:03 GMT -6
"subtle man, subtle"
I'll say it again, guiding that only a coyote can appreciate. To the casual looker, it's not even there.
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Post by ChrisM on May 31, 2004 15:01:56 GMT -6
"subtle man, subtle"
I'll say it again, guiding that only a coyote can appreciate. To the casual looker, it's not even there.
And if that dont work...a big ass rock or cactus will!!! ;D
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Post by 3n on May 31, 2004 15:20:46 GMT -6
Never used cactus...but have used lots of big ass rocks.
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