The nose of a coyote....

[trappnman]

We touched on this in another thread, but I do feel its an important thought- pnly in the scope it reveals about cooyte abilities.

Do you think- that by boiling, dyeing and waxing- you are tricking a coyote into not knowing that the trap isa there?

Isn't this going back to there being a silver bullet in coyote trapping? Dogs can trail people in moon suits.

Think about that.

So- in MHO of ocurse, boiling, waxing, etc might clean your traps and protect your traps- but no way is the process going to make the traps "invisible".

If you would take that unset trap- and bury it in a pattern- i'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that it will be investigated and probally dug at.

Thats were lures/baits come in. A good lure or good bait will take precedence over the trap smell-

Heck- what does O'Gorman say....best way to get coyote traps ready for dying is to trap coyoes in hem. Spray off the grease, and go. He dyes to protect the trap- not fool the yotes.

Wiley once said- if you spill lure on a trap- don't panic- wipe it off and set it- one would hope your stronger lure smell in the hole would take precedence to the same smell on the trap.

My whole point- is you ain't never going to make things invisible to a coyote- he knows you were there, he knows you are gone. Put an attractant in a hole and it will attract his interest more than a fresh trap...but he still knows its there...just doesn't care.

Comments...?

[Edge]

While I would surmise that a dog is actually tracking the "suit"......I dont think there is anything you could do to a trap to make it invisible to a coyote's nose.
Bone dry clean steel has a scent,as does wax,as does petrified wood,as do rocks.
The scent on the trap just needs to be less attractive than the scent in the hole.

Edge

[mike692]

I attended some Dennis Kirk calling seminars a few years ago. I was fortunate enough to talk to Dennis prior to the class about trapping.
I was surprised to find out that when Dennis trapped coyotes he did much like O'Gorman did. He said he just placed his traps in a stream. When they took on a coat of rust they were ready to set.
I'm positive that a canine smells "something" in the dirt pattern in front of the hole with all the funky smells. It's just not something that he's afraid of or concerned with.
(Unless you mist it with urine ;D)
Besides helping the trap last longer, maybe dyeing and waxing are something that trappers do to make themselves feel better about their chances.

My favorite Dennis Kirk quote when referring to a canines sense of smell; " When you cook out, your neighbors know your having a barbecue. A coyote can tell you the ingredients of the sauce."

Modified to tell Edge....Good post!

[trappnman]

Bone dry clean steel has a scent,as does wax,as does petrified wood,as do rocks.


Now I am confused- why then does the chain/cable HAVE to be discovered by digging, not the nose, as per your previous thread?

[Edge]

Read what I wrote,Steve,what I wrote was re;*THAT*situation,IE,*where*the cable was,not how it smelled.
I did NOT say it *wasnt*discovered by smell,I said *I didn't think*it was discovered by smell,but a victim of opportunity.

Edge

[blakcoyote]

I believe that coyotes can smell the traps,and they know there,there.And this was a big problem for me,when I first starting trapping yotes.Because I thought my digging problems were a result of dirty traps.I was obsessed with dying and waxing,especially the waxing part,because of how wax picks up odor.If the wind changed directions while I was prepping them, and blew even alittle smoke over my finished traps,I started all over again.Anyway,I learned over time and observing more closely each set that was dug up and my setting techniques,that bedding was my biggest problem.Certain brand traps were dug up more and other brands not at all,and over time I stayed with the brands I could bed well.I do have a few traps dug,or should I say moved in the bed.I noticed sometimes I'll have a trap pulled back from the hole slightly from a coyote digging the hole and snagged the trap,because the jaw was just below the dirt covering.But on other occasions the trap is just uncovered,with no digging at the hole,which leads me to believe they can smell the trap no matter what.And it's a matter whether they care it's there or not,because I've taken traps that were dug and set them in another area and caught coyotes with them no problem.I quite using logwood dye and switched to sumac which is more common in my area.Just because even waxed,you can smell the dye used on the trap,and I figured by using something there used to smelling,it wont trigger there curiousity as much and I also cut my digging problems down alot just by making that switch,atleast it seems that way.Thats just my buck two eighty,if it sounds nuts,its because the coyotes made me that way.

[Edge]

oUTSTANDING POST,bLAKCOYOTE,oops,sorry about the caps.

Its posts like yours that knock years off the learning curve for new trappers(and a few old ones!)

Edge

[blakcoyote]

Edge,Thanks,hope it reduces some guys headaches ;D.I think each situation is different.I think Steve is right in that they can smell traps no matter what,and the scenario you gave is correct also,it just depends on the coyote.

[Edge]

Yeah,scent free is not something I would apply to anything to do with coyotes;they are just too well armed.
Yet,there are people who still claim to have NO human scent at locations..........how they make a set without being there is somewhat beyond me.

And like,rust.......there are 2 locations I use that I could use a trap COATED in rust with no problems;mainly because they are old logging camps with TONS of rotting metal;ie,the yotes are used to it,it doesnt raise any flags.

Edge

[Edge]

TMan,
I just re-read my posts on the opther thread.........I apologize for any inference on your part,but maybe I dont splain too good.........

It *seems*clear to me,but,well,....maybe not so to others........

Edge

[trappnman]

Edge... ya had me going round in circles....the more I tried to understand...the more confusered I was....

blakcoyote- in addition to bedding- I believe the contrast of a pattern (color/texture/materials) causes a lot of digging/avoidance.

Reading old books, it was a common practice to bury horseshoes at the set area- that way, the fox became used to the rust/metal smell.

How they react to odors in one area compared to the same odors in another area (often with in miles of each other) is strange...I personally think it has a lot to do with core/fringe area locations......I know many of you weren't as enamored with the Logan study as I would...but of all the studies I have read- this one seems to hint at providing answers to a lot of my coyote behavioral questions.

[trappincoyotes39]

Most people don't dye and wax to fool a coyote, as you can't do it period. You use a product that is less offensive or more netural to there surroundings, ie: Old Logwood dye was that, we don't have the old dye, the last ten years or more you have something different than true log wood! Wax again seems to be more neutral to a coyote meaning not causing alot of sucspion with them.
I use dye and wax to keep my traps in good working order and prevent caking rust. Not trying to fool a coyotes nose.
Now on the other hand those that use quick dips, I would say this too" most coyotes" is an offensive odor, and you will get more refusals from these types of products than dug up traps. I don't know why anyone would think by dipping your traps in gas or coleman fuel even in April, that it will disapate and be undected by a coyotes nose even by December.
I know plenty of people catch coyotes with it, but I will say your missing more because of shear refusal than with dye.

[BK]

Let me jump in here and join the chorus and proclaim one never can fool a canine's nose, as that is how I feel.
But I think population, human contact, and perhaps climate play a huge roll in what you can get by with in regard to your sets.

[chub618]

i cannot reply on the effects of trapping coyotes but, mabe after this season i can.... but i have seen yotes scent trail me to my treestand on several ocassions,,, this after putting my scent free rubberboots on and spraying them down with baking soda solution that suposedly eliminates human scent.....

[Rob220swift]

I have yet to have a trap dug by a yote, or any other animal for that matter. Knock on wood. I know I have some rust on a trap or two in spite of the dye and wax. However, I live in iron mining country where red dust and rock is almost everywhere in some quantity. Natural oxidation is occurring all the time, at least since the last ice age, and I don't believe the yotes can discern it as it's part of their environment. Kinda like the smell of the ocean. Even if they can smell the trap, they don't pay any attention to it. If the odor spooked them they would go out of their minds 24/7 and all move south to Gladstone.

[Jason Grimm]

Isn't modern day logwood crystals a synthetic and the powder form comes from a tree that is native to South America? (quebacho tree) sp. Makes me wonder if I want to put these unnatural and non-native smells on my traps! Something to think about.

[trappnman]

Jason- I don't think it matters if it is walnut hulls or sumac or berries or dye- the wax covers up the majority if not all the smell- so dye away.

Many feel ANY dye is a waste of time- they say just wax.

[Edge]

FWIW,I aint dying my Montanas this year,just degrease and wax......the Dukes are due tho.......

Edge

[redfoxtrapper2000]

I think your right the coyote could always smell the trap if he for whatever reason was trailing along or smelling the ground hunting ect. The point made earlier hits the nail on the head if hes interested in the lure or the hole his attention is deverted away from whats under that spot of dirt and toward the attractor . Good post and a great site!

[blakcoyote]

Tman,I'm gonna pay more attention to color this year,like that one post you had recently,with the pics,I cant right off recall the topic.But it made sense.I'll be studying my sets more closely and watch how this all comes into play.