walk thru sets

[chub618]

was watching a video over the weekend and it was suggested that the use of 2 traps incresses the oddsn of taking an animal some 30%. but i was wondering if employing two holes spaced correctly to one trap would do the same thing? and take that fox or coyote. any thoughts on this setup

[bobwendt]

chub, I see no advantage and a lot of disadvantage to setting 2 traps at a fox or coyote set. If your attractants and set construction are even close to adequate you should miss very very few visitors, barring freak weather and oddball circumstances. I think somebody gave you some bad advice.

[trappnman]

I personally see no value in using 2 traps at 1 set.

I'll grant special circumstances for specific animals or sets- but in day out and day in work- no.

I'll wager proper guiding will easily make up that 30%.

____________________________________________

A two hole set is one version of a walkthrough...have two holes a foot or so apart, and it creates interest in both and a "walkover" effect. Use natural and imported guides to further add to the walkthrough.

If you have row crops- its hard to find a better situation for a walkthrough. Make your holes against one row as a backing, put the trap in the dirt between the next row and that row acts like a back guide...creating a walkthrough. A few pebbles or cobs for guides...theres your set.

Grass clumps in short grass are ideal places. 3 clumps growing close together...use 2 as your backings, lure base of both, use other to back guide your trap. Dig up a chunk of grass if needed, or use rocks, cow chips, etc as back guides.

Anything to get the goyote to move between the lure holes and the guides...

Don't be afraid of the concept or the name- walkthroughs are perhaps the most natural types of sets you can make, and once mastered...very slick and easy.....trappnman

[mostinterestingmanintheworld]

If your making walkthrough's for cats it's a good idea to use big stepping sticks and "ladder" them as Tom Krause writes in his new book.

Get them stepping trough the obstacle course and as long as one of the holes has a trap your good.

I'm going to use two traps this year at opposite ends of the obstacle course.

There were a few opportunities for doubles last year that I missed out on and a couple of singles that I missed as well.

The traps will likely be 10-20 feet apart.

Joel

[bobCATching]

Everybody seems to talk about it being unnecessary to use a second trap at cat sets. A few people advocate it in videos as mentioned at the start of this post. Yet, most trappers try to work around it, I do most of the time. At the same time, everyone that traps cats throws in the comments about them "not being in the mood," "not working the set," "couldn't smell the lure," "cats are cats," "barring freak weather," "the snow covered my set and he worked it wrong". Bull!
He worked it just like a cat, not like a trapper thought he should! In many areas of the west with low cat densities, large home ranges, nomadic cats that may never return to "that spot", can you afford to miss a cat now and then? Personal decision. I believe each trapper eventually uses what works best for him on his line. I've played around with two traps in quite a few cat sets, and I believe that at the end of the season it does make a difference. Weather changes, competition, wind changes, snow, extreme cold are all NORMAL during most cat seasons. Now I wouldn't run half the sets I should just to have two traps at each set. If I though a location needed 4 sets and I only had 4 traps, I'd put in 4 sets with one trap at each. But if I had extra traps just sitting at home, , I'd put in double trap sets. Joel and I had this conversation at a restaurant when we were returning from our state rondy in Ely a few weeks ago. Most of the time:: one trap and properly spaced stepping sticks will do the job,, BUT! I asked Joel to count up the misses he had last year and I counted up mine. (10 to 30 % but you never really know how many of the missed cats you catch back in a few days or in another set.) He had the following comment "You convinced me, I think I'll use two traps next year." Anyway, a few comments and thoughts to get you thinking! And thinking catches cats!
Steve

[bobwendt]

you last two posters need to go back and read the opening post, the man SPECIFICALLY said for FOX and COYOTES. To belittle others comments in regard to fox and coyotes was in error. NOW, if you want to talk cats, I still believe 2 sets maybe 10 feet apart, on each side of a draw, gully ,or both sides of a rockpile will out catch 2 traps set at the same set. If I could only set 5 sets and owned 100 traps and cats were $500 each and I only had a week to catch them as I was dieing in 7 days, heck, I`d set 10 traps/set and lay out at night with a spotlight and a gun! But, I have unlimited cats and territory and plenty of time and traps so I want to cover as much ground as possible with the least time at each location as possible, i.e. 1 trap at a well constructed set and 1-4 more in the area. Fox and coyotes, never set 2 traps/set, but almost always put in multiple sets a short distance apart unless on a fishing expedition to ck. populations, then scatter singles at all the likely looking crossings and etc till I see what the first run or two brings.

[bobCATching]

Not wanting to start an on-line ruru, but to clear things up. If the last poster would please look at the referred to previous two posts: note that they specifically refer to CATS not fox and coyotes. So maybe the post was just expanded a little, it isn't the first time, many posts are and ABSOLUTELY no belittling was intended AT ALL. If you took offense, none should have been taken and only you can not take offense. This is a forum for discussing and exchanging ideas, theories, thoughts, methods etc. No need to be so adament that one way is the only and best way. We all trap different parts of the country and each of us have adapted methods we feel are the best suited for our traplines. Nuff said, have nice day!

[Planes & Poison]

I agree with the above regarding fox and coyotes. There's no need for more than one trap at a set.

But, I do want to delve into two-trap sets for cats a little more.

I have always resisted the 'temptation' to put two traps at a set. Often doing as was previously described; put in a long walk-thru cat set and put a trap on each end so they're several feet apart (each trap on a drag). I've yet to go to placing two traps close together at a single set.

How are you making your sets with two traps nvbobcat? What's your positioning for each trap?

[bobwendt]

oh relax, I don`t get bent that easy! I saw no cat comments untill the nevada boys came on, and in fact any comments I made prior and all those of others were made BEFORE any cat talk came up. That is why I resented the insinuation to the effect that my earlier post also applied to cats. Joel and nevada, no offense was taken at all, just wanted to clarify a canine post from a cat post. I know you guys are both cool dudes and enjoy all your additions. I`m shoving off in an hour so talk you all again in a month or so.

[bobCATching]

smack!! and have a good time

[bobCATching]

whitemtncur,
I must say I'm also a one trap guy for coyotes and also for most of my cat flat sets. Any flat type set that requires a cat to approach your attractor (whatever it is) can be pretty well covered with one trap and multiple lure applications. IF the cat works the set. It's with the perfect walk-thrus that I favor 2 traps. I don't care how wonderful your lures or baits are, everyone acknowledges the "moodiness" of cats. Even well known lure makers. Do some experimenting yourself. Bed your 1 trap and position your stepping guides, stride adjusters, fencing then look at it with the thought of, what effort would take for a cat to step over the whole thing? Then add 2-4" snow to the set? Pretend the wind is blowing opposite of the direction it normally blows? Visualize the cat with a full belly or carrying a cottontail? Then remember you're on public land and visualize that cat going two canyons over and getting caught in someone elses set. Then at that same set, add that second trap....much harder to walk-thru without hitting one. I think it actually saves me time making sets to. I spend alittle more time setting traps but less time constucting the whole set. My actual trap positioning really does vary at each set. Sometimes just a guide between them, sometimes the attractor between them, sometimes one 3-4' away as a blind set backup to a flat set. I feel the same as you do, that each on a separate drag is the best way to go. But I dislike carrying metal drags up a mountain, I'd rather carry another trap. And I don't like walking all over the area looking for two drags. Half the time cats are caught in both traps, but so far NO damage as a result of that but I do pay serious attention to where I anchor my traps as far as entanlement after the catch. I'm trying some very simple sliders that should stop most of that one cat/two trap catch. Only time will tell. I'm always experimenting with new things every year. Stops things from going stale and that's the only way you learn better ways of doing things. I trap a lot using a quad, gone all day long and the space is just not there to carry enough traps to do 2 traps at each set. What's that saying: Life is just a series of adjustments while you're busy making plans!
Steve

[chub618]

ok the way it was explained to me is that with one lure hole for the flat or walk thru the first trap is placed slighly off center and 4" back and the second trap is placed 9" off of the lure hole,,, making it a fox and yotes set! dont know if this is cprrect or not, but thats tje way i took it! and thats why i posted this question... of using 2 holes instead of 2 traps and offsetting the holes and back at prescribed distances... oh by the way we have no cats here in ohio cept them darn house and barn kitties. sorry if i confused all of you .....

[Rob220swift]

You didn't confuse me Chub, so you can be sure nobody else was. I would seem to me that 2 traps fairly close, as you describe would more likely end up as one with animal and one sprung and empty. Dragging may or may not remedy this result. I always felt that if you have 2 traps at a set, not location, expect only one animal unless they are at least 5-6 feet apart.

[trappnman]

plus, much harder to release something (read that dogs) when he is in 2 traps.

[chub618]

what about the position of the lure holes in relation to a one trap setup? should they be offset and back X number of inches or just punched in side by side?

[trappnman]

A good start is to have the 2 lure holes say 18 inches apart, the trap between them say 10 inches back, with a guide on the off side of the trap- a rock, clump, etc.


But really- any placement regarding trap and lure holes is good- as long as they HAVE to walk over trap to get from 1 hole to the other.....trappnman

[mostinterestingmanintheworld]

As far as coyotes go I believe most flat sets are walkthru sets.

I watched tracks on frozen sets, snow, etc. and more coyotes approach from the side on my flat sets than from the front.

I believe a flat set should be against a low backing with a lure that causes urination to happen.

I think one of the mistakes that many beginners have in their mind is that the coyote comes trotting down the trail and makes a right angle approach to the set.

I prefer to have the animal step between the jaws which he does if approaching from the side. I set the dog against the backing and up tight on flat sets.

From what I see coyotes prefer to straddle the backing and pee down on it rather than cock their leg like a dog.

Forget the guide sticks and such on flat sets. If your lure is good and trap bedded solid he's yours.

I don't like to force coyotes at flat sets. I know plenty can be caught at forced sets but if coyotes are what I want I don't force them.

Dirt holes are another story. They usually aren't walkthrough sets although they can be.

Joel

[trappnman]

Joel- some of what you say about flat sets I agree with, but some of what you posted I just cannot agree with.

To begin with- I don't believe that a simple 1 lure hole flat set is a walkthrough set. While I agree many coyotes approach flat sets from the side (perhaps due mainly to their being a jaw guard present at my flat sets) I can't agree that this translates into a walkthrough type situation. On the contrary, I have seen many times in the past where a coyote approaches the lure hole- sniffs it and simply reverses direction so to speak and continues on his way.

No...simply making a flat doesn't induce the walkthrough results- that is accomplished by setting in travel ways (ie roads, crop rows) and/or using multiple attractor sites - meaning 2 or more lure holes. Thats what gives a consistent walkthrough on coyotes.

From what I see coyotes prefer to straddle the backing and pee down on it rather than cock their leg like a dog.

I don't see this hardly at all in tracked up sets that are frozen in, snowed. Dig at the holes- but little or no urination at the set. I personally do not believe that the urge to urinate is the #1 factor in coyotes working my flat sets.

It might well be your lures and methods causing such response.

Forget the guide sticks and such on flat sets. If your lure is good and trap bedded solid he's yours.

Different strokes for sure- I disagree with this 100% and stress in any demo I am making on yotes that guiding is the #1 reason for success or failkure at flat sets. I suspect that the way you make your sets (and the reaction you are looking for) is doing the guiding for you.

My personal thought and advice to people having trouble at flat sets- learn how to guide and you will catch more fur. After all- as Zags says- "Its not how many you catch...it how many you miss"

I don't like to force coyotes at flat sets. I know plenty can be caught at forced sets but if coyotes are what I want I don't force them.

I agree- but proper guiding doesn't MEAN forcing (although it certainly can at times) coyotes- instead..it "suggests" to them. As you might be able to tell...I pride myself on my guiding techniques- and trust me in this...my coyotes aren't "forced"...subtle, subtle is the key.

A color line, a dimple, a few grains of corn, a weed stem, natural features...all alter a coyotes step..and if you can alter his step...you can put his foot exactly on the pan...and with small traps at flat sets...thats critical.....trappnman