Coyote urine ( your thought are welcome)

[Stef]

This is a part of a survey on urine...

Coyotes responded equally to wild coyote urine and urine collected from hand-reared coyotes. They also responded equally to urine and urine fractions from both estrous and nonestrous urine collected from coyotes from N.Ca and Id. Moreover, the attractiveness of urine collected from coyotes fed rodents did not differ from the attractiveness of urine collected from the same coyotes fed a different diet at a later date.

Thus, the chemical attractants most important to coyotes may be present in all coyote urines and may not be a function of diet or locale.

Have fun

Stef

[bobwendt]

stef, it has been my experience that meat fed urine far and away out produces cerial fed. Also that winter collection is far superior to summer collection. As to why, I`ll leave that to the scientists, I`m just a trapper. I do agree that estrous urine is of little value as coyotes are only interested in T and A for a short time, and are pair maters, so not razzled dazzled like us humans that are the time snooping and sniffing in spite of mariatal status, well, ok, at least looking. Once mated (paired) another estrous female is no more than a male tresspaser or a barren female.

[Stef]

I personally think the same as you Bob because I don't have any scientific background excepted that I read a LOT of Science books, studies etc...

But researchers found that the same class/strentgh of acids are there in all urines.

Maybe meat fed urines smell better to our nose but for a coyote.... it doesn't seems to be the case as per their paper.

If the same chemicals are there, coyotes will investigate.... the kind of smell that we like to smell is just maybe a trapper idea our urine collectors idea ?

There's more cool stuff to read on that page about fractions of urine who were a lot more appealing to a coyote than pure wild coyote pee.

Stef

[jsevering]

Dumb question, but wouldnt the amino and fatty acids and for lack of a better word the brine last longer with meat feed canines after the liquid portion of the pee evaporated or was absorbed?

Id have to say meat feed, how long was the urine at the post station and were the subject animals in a controled enclosed environment, would be a couple of variables Id sort of be interedted in..... :)jim

[bobwendt]

I posted this on dobbins once a couple years back. I used to be into bodybuilding bigtime and entered a lot of competitions and won the natural mr. indiana several times and classes. When preparing for a body show, the goal was to get down to 3% body fat , to where your skin looked like cellophane and every muscle striation could be seen, with definition. You`ve seen the look. It`s called cut or ripped. the way to do that was cut calories, but still maintain 1 and 1/2 grams of pure protein/lb. of bodyweight daily. If you just cut calories alone you lost weight alright (fat), but also lost equall amounts of lean mass (muscle). So I lived on nothing but meat for 3 weeks going into a show to maintain my muscle mass yet lose the fat. And I`m here to tell you, my pee was dark yellow , almost orangy-red,and stunk so bad my wife wouldn`t let me pee within 100 yards of the house. You think I`m wheezing you? Eat nothing but meat - no cerial/bread/taters/crackers/nothing but lean meat for 48 hrs and smell your pee. It will knock you over! Also I notice that pure meat fed pee if left sit even a few hrs a thick sediment settles on the bottom of a jug and eventually turns into a shiny crystalline sediment, calledd urine salts. In my humble trapper pee education, this is the best stuff you can get, a lure in it`s own. Some call it the "mud". Not to be confused with fecal material or food scraps. The crystals will settle out of straight bladder urine, clean as mothers love, but not out of pellet fed pee.

[coyote]

interesting, Bob.

so, do you syphen off the concentrated urine (using it, too), and then use the "mud" differently?

or do you shake up the sediment into the urine?

Thanks.

[bobwendt]

what I sell to the dealers they get whatever is in the 55gallon drums and if they shake it or not is their business. I charge a $15 deposit on the drums so most bring them back. The average trapper thinks that sediment is the bad stuff so the dealers generally leave a quart or so on the bottom of a 55 gallon drum when they bring it back, he he he, and I then drain that out and jar it up for me. It is shiny, like a mirage and glistens in the sun, prettier than a red haired woman or long black Indian hair. Nope, I don`t sell it either. Get your own 55 gallons of pee to get a quart of stuff that is basically unavailable to the public in any way shape or form. You guys still think some lures might not be worth $10/oz.?

[Stef]

$15 deposit.... well, that's cheap.

They charge me $50 deposit here for a drum.

Stef

[bobwendt]

well, that is what the drums cost me stef, here at a used drum outlet. They are all food grade drums, mostly softdrink concentrate and I can get them in 15 gallon, 35 gallon, or the 55s. I really need to raise the deposit, if for no other reason than to get the mud back.

[musher]

The urine from my meat fed dogs is way darker than kibble fed. It also gives off that skunky/wild smell.

I thought that 'yotes ate alot of everything - even watermelons. That would mean that their urine would vary from one food source to another

[Wackyquacker]

I thought that 'yotes ate alot of everything - even watermelons. That would mean that their urine would vary from one food source to another

Which logically leads to seasonal variations. What's to say that one is better than another?...e.g., "meat" urine in the winter is stronger, reachs further but is more common(?) while "watermelon" urine is "weaker" but less common...curiousity factor is increased...which will be the best?

I'm not taking sides here just asking for some more conversation...pleasant conversation would be appreciated.

[bobwendt]

winter collection meat fed! My only rational or "proof", is I have used summer and pellet fed and the results are barely at all, almost no affect, about like you or me or cow pee, just doesn`t seem to hold interest to a coyote. But that meat fed, it always gets a ck. out or even a digging or back kick response.

[Stef]

cow pee, just doesn`t seem to hold interest to a coyote

That's not what I read in Thorpe's interview ;D ;D ;D

Stef

[bobwendt]

you`ll have to take that up with thorpe as I don`t know anything about him or an interveiw.

[Stef]

He was saying using cow pee at his coyote sets instead of fox or yote pee.
He did that to be ahead of the competition during the fur boom.

All coyotes were coyote pee shy ;D

Well, I'm too young!

Stef

[bobwendt]

I bet he was just pulling your leg. I trapped during the boom real hard and the better the pee the better the catch. There was a lot of stuff sold then that never came from a coyote or a fox , yet was passed off as canine pee, maybe even 90-95% of the stuff on the market commercially was junk back then. 90-95% of the trappers were newbies then also and were suckers for about anything that could relieve them of money, and of course there were plenty of folks around then only too glad to take that money. It was really a disgusting time. Probably that is why the coyotes avoided it. If coyotes like cow pee they would be busier than a 1 legged man in a kick boxing fight as there were lots of cows peeing around eveywhere back then, same as now. My contention, coyotes could give a flip about cow pee, now or then either one. If johhny says different, then I guess we disagree.

[coyote]

Z didn't see Bob's "kickback" reference, did he?

[mattjones298]

cow pee, i`ll tell all the guys i trap around that was thorp`s secret in the fur days. i`ll even try and find them some.

i think i`ll stick with good fox and yote pee myself

allitle fur boom story for ya, boyd smith a very good trapper i trapped around in the old days penned up 5 red fox and caught pee in season from them. i was running store bought pee that season. to make a long story short i sure looked at alot of boyd`s foxes trapping around him.

matt

[mike692]

Do you all check the bladders of trapped canines and if they're full, do you use it on your line?

[mattjones298]

i only check cats mike, there most every time full, most reds are also, coyotes 50/50 at best so i dont check them

matt