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Post by trappnman on Jul 27, 2004 18:58:21 GMT -6
The subject of how coyotes react ot coolor changes really amazes me. How they can see those subtle color differences in grasses and dirt patterns "on a dark stormy night" is beyond me.
Until I figured this out- I got a lot of refusals and messing around. Once I found out how sensitive MY coyotes here are to color lines, etc.... my refusal rate went way down.
Paying attention to color is now second nature.
Yet- in some areas, it seems coyotes pay no attention to color variations...ie coal shale.
How do your coyotes react to color changes i ndirt, patterns, grass?
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Post by Traveler on Jul 27, 2004 19:07:10 GMT -6
They're not to bad here unless you go overboard like black soil in light colored ground etc.
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Post by coydog on Jul 28, 2004 10:13:00 GMT -6
In some cases Ive seen where a coyote wont cross that color line with a set in sod with a dirt pattern. One thing I have done is tear up a few more spots around the set so it doesnt look so out of place, or go with a larger pattern, so if they even want a wiff, there gonna have to get dirty.
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Post by trappnman on Jul 28, 2004 10:19:10 GMT -6
When I first started trapping yotes- I could see where the texture changes or wet/dry dirt patterns were sometimes avoided- but it took me a long time just to realize how much this was occuring.
Coyotes eyes and "detail" ability at night has to be truly amazing.
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Post by coydog on Jul 28, 2004 10:25:19 GMT -6
Coyotes eyes and "detail" ability at night has to be truly amazing.
I couldnt agree more.
Its hard for me to get past the fact that I cant see for crap at night, How the heck can they???
Far beyond my knoledge, thats for sure.
So, do you believe they can only see black and white???
How would anyone ever know?
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Post by trappnman on Jul 28, 2004 13:28:40 GMT -6
We were talking about that earlier, and if I remember right, canines see various shades of red, perhaps some of the other colors and shades.
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Post by TimW on Jul 28, 2004 13:34:11 GMT -6
Now heres a question for everyone. With what Steve is saying about the color changes, do you think the same goes for the Fox as well ?
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Post by z on Jul 28, 2004 16:19:01 GMT -6
I believe it is called light refraction...... A canines ability to gather light works much the same as nightvision goggles...... Thats why them blinkers glow in the dark! I forget where I got the information on this subject but it was interesting. I too would like to know how in the he$$ they know what a coyote knows......... Maybe they read Slims books!  Zz! |
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Post by Rob220swift on Jul 28, 2004 21:23:09 GMT -6
Steve: Just to be the devil's advocate for a second, how can you be sure color variation had anything to do with a specific refusal/avoidance with a coyote? Are there other factors that you have overlooked when reaching your conclusion? For all I know you are probably correct in your analysis and I'm in no way doubting your opinion. From a problem solving perspective, (how did you figure the color thing out) what was your methodology and how can one apply it to other trapping riddles? Or maybe I posted this reply/inquiry because I have a trial tomorrow morning and I have a yet to be satisfied need for some sort of conflict to take the edge off before I hit the rack?
I really am serious about how you came to your conclusions about color variations and avoidance.
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Post by trappnman on Jul 28, 2004 21:50:22 GMT -6
Good question- to put it simply- I found out that if I could see the pattern, the coyotes could to. Understand, I am talking flats sets.
In using dry dirt, I found that if the pattern was a different colored dirt, even though texture appeared the same- I'd have walk arounds.
I then started noticing that color in grass, etc----acted as guides, that the coyotes followed these color lines.
Many notice this in wet/dry dirt situations- perhaps it isn't te wet/dry difference...but the dark/light color.
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Post by Edge on Jul 28, 2004 22:35:14 GMT -6
I see in monochrome;like an old picture looks to someone who can see color.
I definately see color variation,but my eyes are more drawn to out of place things than color highlights;changes in lines rather than the lines them selves.
Edge
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Post by TimW on Jul 28, 2004 23:34:40 GMT -6
Now heres a question for everyone. With what Steve is saying about the color changes, do you think the same goes for the Fox as well ? No one really answered my question I believe. |
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Post by z on Jul 29, 2004 7:12:58 GMT -6
Steve, These "color" lines......... Hmmmmm, Most color lines I run across trapping limited farms is where a harvested crop ends, a strip of soil and then sod with nice green grass. So you have a color transition from tan, to brown to green......Through our eyes! My question? Is it the "color lines" Or a travel route already established while the crops were up.......  .......... That would put you smack dab, "in your face" on location. As I feel many times in certain areas where the k9's are funneled they use this crop edge as the major interstate between locations. ......... "Roads to the left of me, houses to the right, here I am.....stuck in the middle with you".........LOL! At the "color lines" there is always a place to blend a trap.........Naturally! Zz! |
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Post by MChewk on Jul 29, 2004 8:12:16 GMT -6
Steve, for a naive coyote that has never been trapped or experienced a trap before I don't think that "color lines" make a diff. ON A TRAP PATTERN. Obviously, I think color can make a difference as a attractor like a white bone contrasting on a darkish background Or a blackened piece of firewood on snow covered ground. But for a young coyote pup or even a animal that has never experienced a trap set before...no. Too many stories around here about "rookie" trappers, mostly farmers trapping coyotes with exposed traps layed on the ground to make me think other wise.
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Post by coydog on Jul 29, 2004 8:47:45 GMT -6
I really couldnt say for sure whether color lines cause an avoidance, but Ive seen the same thing Steve is talkin about.
Can color lines be a problem, I dont see why not in certain situations with certain coyotes. I think you can relate this to the lure usage, some coyotes are shy to an overkill on lure, Im not saying all coyotes, but there are certain critters that are just shaky and shy from possibly being the runt of the litter and getting there butts kicked too much, kinda like the cowardly lions of coyotes, they are just not ballsey.
They are the one that you have to take the time to hold their hands(paws) the whole way in.
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Post by Edge on Jul 29, 2004 8:50:31 GMT -6
"Now heres a question for everyone. With what Steve is saying about the color changes, do you think the same goes for the Fox as well ?
No one really answered my question I believe. "
Geez,Tim,it was kinda threadbound........
With the few fox we have left here,you would think they would be more savvy;they are not.
Although I dont trap *for*fox,I catch them,and there is little if any hesitation to jumping on the pan,regardless of wet spots left from RV antifreeze,or off color dirt.
As you could surmise there is little fox pressure in my area,heavily pressured fox might be a different story.
Also of note might be the fact that I make every set as tho the animal I am after is the smartest of their species;which with some species,isnt saying much.
Edge
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Post by trappnman on Jul 29, 2004 8:52:18 GMT -6
Z- its common to have an old hay field planted next to a new seeding- so that for a year or two, bot arte cut and hayed the same time.
so- the grasses are the same, the height texture is the same...only difference is the color of te fields- new hay is adifferent shade of green than old hay in the field.
Good point about the travel lines already being established- and can see how that comes into play.
but it wouldn't be a factor in the different colored grass-
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Post by coydog on Jul 29, 2004 8:54:09 GMT -6
I think it could be the case with any animal, even possum ;D depending on their bad experiences, or personallity.
I would not focus on this problem when setting traps until I noticed it to be a problem.
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Post by Edge on Jul 29, 2004 9:00:19 GMT -6
"I would not focus on this problem when setting traps until I noticed it to be a problem. "
Um,what problem........do you mean color change avoidance?If so,I dont worry about it anymore as I use 2 set systems,small and perfect,or huge and messy,nothing in betweeen(less I get "help"from the weather)and I no longer use RV antifreeze cuz its just more blending I feel obligated to do.Iknow,Iknow,it *prolly*dont make a difference........but.........ya know how it is........LOL!
Edge
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