Dirthole shy

[trappnman]

I know some canine trappers feel that if an area has heavy pressure- that types of sets becme wore out and no longer as effective. (ie a dirthole for example)

I have my doubts about that- for a couple of reasons

I'd like to hear some reasons on why you tihnk this might be (or is) true...

[jsevering]

I dont think the set gets wore out so much, as played out, by common almost identical factors including presentation of the set, the attractors used along with there placements,ect. that leads to familuarity\ assoc. in part with some animals.

I belive it was john thorpe that said variety is the spice of life...jim

[woody]

I am not the brightest light in the lamp ;D but I think that the animals gets lure shy more then set shy, lets look a little deeper ;D most K-9's eat mice that comes from holes, there for they know that a hole means a possible meal, now add a lure that it's had a bad experiance with and wham you have a critter digging to find the thing it had the experiance with. ;D

I have talked to the two local trappers that trap the same area as I, and found out what they were using ;)as far as I know I am the only one in the area using Stef's lures ;D now if I can keep from educating the k-9's I done this with the thought process that if we all use the same lures then the K-9's will be harder to get, and will become lure shy. I might be wrong but I doubt it ;D woody

[3n]

Every fall you have a new crop of coyotes that have never seen a dirthole and should not be a problem...I agree with jsevering that later in the season it just gets played out.

[pacoontrapper]

Woody brought up a good point about being more lure/scent shy than "set" shy.

I believe it was Charles Dobbins who always preached about always using lures and urine differently at sets close to eachother. If for some reason you educate the critter at one set--it would make sense for it to associate the smell in the hole to danger...BUT, here's some food for thought...

I had a conversation with Dan Kroll at the pa Gathering on Sunday and he told me about a time a certain fox kept tripping his traps, at gang-set locations, on two different farms...

He finally caught the critter by leaving a very small part of one trap uncovered (giving it away), and then bedding a second trap 6 inches behind it. The red fox was caught by a "stump". Not a fresh one either, it was healed over and aged and was obviously the result of someone elses trap...He showed me the pictures from his album too--not exactly something you see everyday.

I don't think it was just mere coincidence that the digging came to a halt from there on. If you ask me that fox associated his dirtholes (lured with lure that he made-meaning it couldnt have been by coincidence the smell that the fox reconized). So, in my opinion, yes, certain sets may be able to "wear out" and not be as effective due to heavy trapping pressure and educated animals...

[dj88ryr]

PA, that is exactly how I got the fox that was tripping and turning my traps over for 5 weeks last season. I went totally nuts for a while. I tried making different sets, using different lures and lure combos. I even changed urine. I went a set fresh clean traps at all the locations, I became fanatical about scent left behind. I basically did everything by the book. The fox then started taking a crap on the turned over traps. I really doubted my ability to catch this one stinking fox. I almost pulled up and went some where else. I even drove to the farm fully intending to pull the traps, but came up with another idea before I could pull them. Always the same result. Crap on the traps.
After trying to figure out what I was missing, I decided that I wasn't missing anything, the fox knew what was up, so I decided to use what it knew against it.
I did the same thing, I dug a fresh dirthole, just like all the others I had been making, only this time, I didn't bed the trap very good, and left about half or more of the trap exposed. I then set another trap behind the backing, next day I had the little B**** and the digging and turned traps stopped. That catch was the most satisfying of the season, but if I had been trapping for just money, I would have went broke.

[Bubber]

There are much better cannine trappers than I, but I have dealt with more than a few trap shy coyotes. I think that as the season goes on anything suspcious causes more alarm in the animals than it would earlier in the season. Be it a recognized lure, another odor, or similarieties between sets.

As far as trap shy animals, they I belive that they are just overly suspicios of anything out of the ordinary or rather somthing out of the ordinary that they recognize as has disturbed them before, whether they got pinched, or made a connection between that odor or whatever and humans.

I doubt that any anmaimal actually become shy of a style of set, it is the other little things that get them worked up. I would almost bet that an animal that is what somone considered of a dirthole would also be afraid of a flat set made by the same person. If another came in with different habbits they may have better luck whith that animal.

Just my guesses

[dj88ryr]

It is true that some of us put of a more offensive scent to animals than others. I say they become scent shy for sure, but as was my case, I think that female fox had seen others caught and put the scent into the equation. I did catch three other fox there that season and two before her, all were no problem, it seemed that while she was working my sets over, no other fox bothered them. The three I caught after her were with in 10 days of catching her. It took 5 weeks to get her to mess up. Of course, I could just be in a decent travel way, and she was some what residential to the area.

[Bubber]

Here is a question and maybe some food for thought.

Have any of you had a problem with a digger that was not an older animal? Any trap shy pups or young animals or is it obvious that they have been around the block a time or two? Every time I have taken a trap shy animal it has been a big, tough, battle scared animal.

[dj88ryr]

My digger was as all that I have had problems with in the past, an older female. Her ears were ragged, and she even had a few missing teeth.

[jsevering]

if a particular coyote starts in giving me a problem from the start of the season I would tend to agree its an older animal or been around the block once or twice.

unfortunatly I think lots of times I create my own problems through out the season

a couple of instances when I was putting the boot to a coyote in the start of the season, the rest of the group would be yipping on the hillside like mad, get a short quick bark from off to one side and everthing goes silent.

you kinda get the feeling that, I screwed up now...jim

[trappnman]

I think that this is like the human scent issue- a little truth- but nowhere near the myths.

To begin with- in most populations, you have a pretty good turnover just from "nature". That is, even without a concentrated effort to reduce numbers, you are going ot get a turnover in population every year. A canine trapper is going to be looking at 60% or more YOY or transients- so those for sure aren't going to be lure or set shy. Some advocate removing the lure stick when pulling sets- so that the canine doesn't become familar with the lure.

Even disregarding the turnover, I don't believe a good lure becomes worn out- what trips his trigger is going to trip his trigger.

And I have several times gone back to an area 4-5 months later, and used the same sets, the same lures- and started catching yotes from the get go.

I do believe that when trapping an area, you are going to spook a few- but are you spooking thnm fro mthel ocation oor from the set? Hard to say, but many feel that a spooked coyote in 1 location can be taken at another location (perhaps core/non core is a factor- I believe it to be so).

I also feel old time fox trappers might spook cnaines more so than coyote trappers- simply because a 1,2, 3 dirthole set is the set that in the past, most if not all fox trappers used it almost 100%.

I think that coyote trappers, for several reasons- some delibrate, some happenstance- have more variety in their sets.

"I would almost bet that an animal that is what somone considered of a dirthole would also be afraid of a flat set made by the same person. If another came in with different habits they may have better luck whith that animal."

I tend to agree with this- but also think the location is also a key.

As a fur trapper- I don't worry too much about shy animals. Not much you can do with a truly shy animal using footholds. Since a YOY pays the same as a wised up pegleg, seldom will I take the time to really "match wits" with a coyote.

I also believe that a true digger, is very rare. Most digging is by pups I think- adults just go on their way is spooked or shy. I had 1 digger this year, a collared female. I messed around with her for a week, 10 days- and all I was doing was subtly adjusting the set.

The other 3 collard coyotes I recaught- did no digging before being recaught.

[Stef]

unfortunatly I think lots of times I create my own problems through out the season

Yes, I believe it

In a hurry...... catch the easy ones and move!

Stef

[dj88ryr]

Stef said:

In a hurry...... catch the easy ones and move!

Stef

That is my plan of attack for this coming season Stef!!

[Stef]

Always easier to say DJ... you know???

When I see a coyote tracks around my trap sets patterns, even if I killed 4-5 in that pack.... I want them all dead.

Coyotes are pest on my fox line so when I see some in one area, I want a get rid of them. And I always had problems ;D

Anyway, its not me who will get rid of all coyotes in Quebec...LoL Better move on and skin some fresh coyotes.

Stef

[dj88ryr]

I am going to try to lay out the line in such a way as to pull a loop every Saturday, and set a new one up on Sunday. If I have two or three loops going, I will still have traps to check Sunday morning and then the excitement of setting a new area, up. If I run out of area ( doubtful ) I can always start the cycle over after deer season.

[trappnman]

Not me- let those coyotes breed and run free-

* the more the merrier-

* If ya got 'em, flaunt em'-

* I'd be bummed if we ever got rid of coyotes......


DJ...thats what I like about yotes- you don't have to be leapfrogging traps all the time- set on the travel lanes, use the harvbest, use the hunters- and you can run a set up line for several weeks.

I do think a guy should set up a few new traps every few days or so- once I got a line up, I'll try to have 2-3 just check/maintenance days- then set a few, repeat....

I set my coyote line up like this- I have 3 areas- west, east, middle. The middle is my most accessable (miles from home) and best areas- that gets set up first. Then I set up my East loop- consisting of a lot of deer hunting areas.

I run these two loops for about 3 weeks- then pull the east loop and set up te west loop- then run the middle and the west for about 3 weeks.

So about 1/4 of the traps are shifted- the rest stay set from 5-6 weeks.

[dj88ryr]

Well, maybe after you show me how to be a KYUTE trapper this June, I may have to set up the area I know they run and leave it be.