Flat Sets and Wind Direction

[ChrisM]

Steve, first you must understand that to most coyote trappers (at least out west) and certainly to me, a Flat set is a very sutle type set. Call or gland lure on the side of a cow chip, small sod hump, T-bone etc..

Many of these sets have zero eye appeal. They are worked from downwind or not at all.

A very simplistic example.....Picture a trail running east and west, in a region with a predominate north wind. If I was to put a Flat set to the north side of the trail I would idealy have the backing straight upwind from the trap, just a Wiley did in the video. But lets say that the trapper fails to take into account the wind direction, and places his trap straight west of the lure. Now, a coyote approaching from downwind will be working the set "from the side" How many times have you heard trappers complain about a "smart critter" working sets from the side?

Yes visual guides will go a long way to reducing this but I think the more inportant thing is the backing. If its the common small hump, cow chip etc... a coyote can easily access the lure without coming around over the trap.

This is one of the reasons I greatly prefer dirt holes over flat sets. The hole forces the coyote to come around and square up with the hole to "work it"

This is part of what I'm always saying about letting the location dictate the set type and its construction.

In the above example, if I absolutly couldnt dig a hole, and the sod or whatever prevented me from setting the trap downwind of the lure, I would cheat as much as possible in that direction. Wind from 12 oclock, approach from 6. I would not want my trap at 3 or 9. Four or five would be much better.

Same theory actually applies to dirtholes also. I am usually a straight back setter, with no offset. But if the location mandates that the approach will come from one side, I will offset towards that side. Yep they will be much more apt to square up with the hole IF they are interested enough in the lure to really work it, but I just like to increase my odds.

I agree that sets such as yours with the large trash pile backing, walk thru etc.. will prevent much of this. But such sets are not always possible or even recommended.

To my mind- if you are set on location- and use visuals- heck- even without visuals- a coyote is going to find and work your set.

I know Stef has some good lure, BUT without visuals they will come from down wind or not at all.

And if coyote trapping was poker....a "visual' trumps "wind direction" regarding how a canine works a set.

Often times yes. But now always on a flat set with a low backing. Instead of wondering which will 'trump" the other I prefer to utilize both to my advantage. I'm not much of a poker player, I prefer to stack the odds!

So- thats my view- HOW a set is worked is based on the construction of the set- and wind direction isn't factored in.

See above. Also I realize that you do your coyote trapping early but what do you figure your visual stepping guides are worth when covered with a half inch of snow?

[MChewk]

Steve and Chris...had one this late winter that had me scratching my head...Frozen ground, snow covered coyote kick backs at location... counted three in a twenty foot area. How can a guy be subtle? Didn't try... Grabbed my Jake trap and a five gallon bucket of barn chaff, a broom and a heavy hammer. Pounded in a trap bed drove in the disposable bedded the Jake in the chaff and dumped the rest for a backing. Chris mentioned "a visual trumping wind direction " I get burned every winter by wind direction or it changing on me and my sets...lol! So I attempt to use a little visual trick.. I bed a 35mm film canister in my chaff mound with lure in of course. Stefs lures are excellent by the way! Trap is bedded directly in front of canister back about 6-8 inches. Brushed out tracks best I could and went on to make more sets on this farm. Came back next day...we have a 24 hr ck....Tracks all over.. no coyote Tracks were not on pattern, but behind....wind changed during the night. Wish I had a camera. Kick backs all over but not on a prominent backing just on soybean ground.. I manuevered the truck close enough to pick up some droppings left at a kick back and positioned them next to film canister for more appeal...next day had a coyote! The following day a coyote and a another at a nearby set... that set produced coyotes for the rest of the two weeks I trapped there...no not every day but one every few days. Learned alot more tidbits this season ...darn critters can humble a guy lol...Mike

[trappnman]

but what do you figure your visual stepping guides are worth when covered with a half inch of snow?

LOL- you are right on that pal! 2 Januarys ago we had bare ground, so made a few sets- knowing we would get a couple of inches of snow. I found out- subtle guides not worth much. But lesson learned in 1- vertical guides take care of that.

_______________________________________

I think that our disagreement is farmland vs praire- not just in approaches but even in wind direction.

first you must understand that to most coyote trappers (at least out west) and certainly to me, a Flat set is a very sutle type set. Call or gland lure on the side of a cow chip, small sod hump, T-bone etc..

I'm sorry- I thought I made it clear thats exactly the type of set i make and certainly the type of set I am talking about in this discussion. To be a flat set is probally even more subtle that what you are imagine. I make it a walkthrough with grass and color lines-

Trash pile & mound sets sets only come into effect for remakes- in no way on original sets.

Many of these sets have zero eye appeal. They are worked from downwind or not at all.

Heres where I disagree- in my area I trap.

To begin with- winds down low at set level are very light winds. I refuse to believe that a coyote cannot smell the lure when he walks within a few feet of it in typical wind conditions- that is- swirly, light winds. (in 70 miles an hour st line winds- ok, I'll concede my take will be down- and so will any coyote trapper in heavy winds.) It happens so seldom- its not even worth me factoring it in.

So a set made at a point- where I believe my sets should be- is going to have that coyote working close to it naturally- no matter where the wind is blowing from.

And by making the flat set within a foot or 2 of a weed clump backing, tall grass, etc- I can prevent him from working from the back. From the side- be my guest- thats why I believe in 2 lure holes on flat sets. I encourage him to walk it through.

You know from our conversations that I strongly believe in matching the set to the terrian.

I don't understand why you think a flat set cannot be just as directional as a hole set-we both know it easily can be.

I understand what you both are saying- but why leave it to the fickle fate of wind? Sets made on location- and in farm country location is easy- are going to take animals.

Mike- you said wind direction cost you that coyote. And it did- BECAUSE you made it possible for him to do so,.
You made the set and CHOOSE wind direction as the backing- so to speak. The wind was all that prevented the coyote from working the set from the back, the wind shifted..viola!

Same location- put set where a coyote HAS to work it from the front- and he will. Obviously- wind direction didn't prevent the coyote from finding and working the set.

I can't make it any clearer- in farm country- the last thing I worry about is the coyotes finding my sets. Am I setting that smack dab on location? Maybe so- seems obvious to me where to set- I do- and coyotes find and work the sets.

And I DO like visuals- but I like a visual 3-10 feet away from my set.

By using guides and backings- I don't worry too much about the coyote working the set the way I want him to.

After all, this ain't rocket science.

[briankroberts]

I make it a walkthrough with grass and color lines

I understand what Steve is saying, you must really understand location, there are more subtle things that control where a Coyote puts his foot like the quote above.
I do understand what your saying and how it works, just like the Coyote walking down the farm lane instead of aimlessly through a plowed field.
You are in essense micro managing location.
Thats called paying attention to detail.

I use the wind to my advantage and it works well for me, I will be on the lookout for the kind of things that you are talking about though.
This is another one of the reasons I like this forum, with people like you and Chris and many others sharing knowledge freely.
Where was the internet 25 years ago, it would have saved me a lot of frustraction.....B,....

[MChewk]

Steve, you are right on one thing ...if at all possible attempt to force the animal where you want him...but sometimes like my example they have all the cards in their favor. Here's a question for you same scenario...after you have made a catch and your forcing/backing is destroyed now what? Yes you can bring stuff in but sometimes I just remake and make another set where my backing is superior. I also will add a second trap at the remake ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE to pick up the back door diggers.

[trappnman]

You are certainly correct on a catch destroying subtle backings, etc. It esp hurts when you have a perfect set and a possum is the destroyer

All my flat sets are remade into the trash pile type of walkthrough set- the location is still there.

I don't put in many fresh sets. If I do its usually early in the game- say a location where I have 1 or 2 traps- and get a few coyotes there quick- then I like to put in a fresh flat set.

At long time locations- say where I have been for several weeks- I never found putting in a fresh set helped much.

I am planning on changing traps in certain conditions this year- primarily the "3 day rule"- if a used trap has no catch in 3 days- it will be changed.

Ditto on the internet- never heard of modifed traps much until I got on it- changing my thinking on "safe" traps.

[Stef]

Very good post guys

What can I say more Don't stop ;D

Stef

[z]

I was thinking the same Stef!

Kickbacks.......

Pay attention Hern! Zz

[trappnman]

I make flat sets where I have contrasting terrian- usually where there are bare spots. I incorporate a walkthrough type setup and lure at 2 places at the set.



This is a very typical location and set. I imported the weed clump at the front of the pix for a dog guide. At this set- the lure went into the grass at each of the grass "points"




Where you have the clumping type grass (as alfalpha often does as it ages) you have a natural walkthrough
Lure went on both sides of the backing clump. Next picture is same set, next day.



First night at this location. Caught 3 here in 4 days., then had to pull (I set this up real late- next year....)Look down the old road to the scrub brush on the right- there is a trail through the corn to a bean field about in the middle of the picture- the bean field runs down and around the woods in the background.

[trappnman]

ttt

[Mark]

I have one thing to say: if the trap is set where the animal travels you will need a strong wind for the critter not to smell your lure. In my opinion, if you are setting in a good location, wind means little. I'll prolly get some negative feed-back on that one.

Mark

[jsevering]

I tend to agree with Chris's view point on how wind direction combined with set construction, directly relates to the approach and how the canine initialy works a sutle flat set and even dirt holes.
How many of you guys watched the tracks blow by a flat set on the side of a farm lane, or through a bar way, where the canine passed by the trap, less than three feet, got to about twenty feet out, caught wind of your lure, doubled straight back to the set and was waiting for you, or worse, stopped, started back and for some reason didnt feel the smell was worth the twenty feet or so?
Happened to me more times than I would like to admit, even with double settings on each side of the road, wind current, more or less cutting the road at a 25 degree angle or less, I guess you could say if the canine was traveling up the road in the opposite direction I was dead on location, at least with one of my sets.

Also feel, Chris, makes some good points on keeping time with his trap placement...jim

[trappnman]

www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid108/p00bc1cd6d6b3e5ad45842c44b9fe89c3/f93d6ebc.jpg[/img]

Browsing over these location photos (man aren't scanners, digitals, the internet...neat!)and this one struck me as being a perfect example of a lot of my thoughts on yotes.

On this photo- the bean field goes maybe 500 yards to the left of me. On that side, it is square, there is a sparse fencerow and on the other side of the fence a field road running way back. Maybe 2/3 of the field length is behind where I am standing to take the pic. Behind me, the field ends at a road. Where I am standing is a slight hump in the field. To the right, the field curves around another 300 yards and goes up against a close cropped pasture. A good sized plot.

This set was made well off the "travel lanes". ( the treeline in the distance, the pasture edge, the fencerow, the field row and even the gravel road) Only attraction is the point made by the little bunch of weeds and leftover beans and the bean field itself.

But- the coyotes are going to be running the field- its a pivot area, or swing point, the flow- hard to explain- but looking at it, this "shortcut" was obvious. And more often than not- the coyotes will be "pulled" to this point- and they will go around these points tight like mink.

Notice also this set and many of my sets and how tight they are to cover- or at least a backing. Perhaps this explains why wind direction is not a factor in making sets?

BTW- the wind direction here would be coming over the distant tree line and blowing pretty much staight to where I am standing.

[jsevering]

Steve,
well off the travel ways? By the looks of the features, along with the contours, looks like your set up on the hub,that picture is cheating (lol). You cover the second drainage head with a set also?...jim

[trappnman]

Second set - yes

Well- it IS on a travel lane because the evidence is there- I meant more it is not on the regular travel lanes.

Its so hard to put into words

This location has a lot of straight sides to it- the field road, the fence line, the gravel road behind me, the treeline (sheer bluff behind it), the pasture edge. The highways if you will. This is a secondary road so to speak.

This location is on the way to nowhere- that is- to travel it- you would be adding distance to any point A to point B. A coyote goes out of his way to come here.

Yet you are right Jim- in a way it is the center of the wheel. And the flowing aspect of the fields and the interest point (weed patch) make it a sure bet that its a popular route.

Good point.

Now- think of all that has been said. Would wind direction: help, hurt or not be a factor.

At this set at this location- ANY coyote coming by would have to become aware of the set and work it the same way- no matter how the wind.

BTW- this was night #1. Day #2, the farmer put cattle in. After a couple of days of remaking a stomped down set, I pulled it.

Next year....

[jsevering]

Your farmer is not a nice man (lol), two sets would pretty much cover it in my mind and take care of any windage, I would probably put a dirt hole just on the start of the down hill slope of the second drainage about eight feet out or so from the green grass, for visability, and to cover the flat set on the weed point with any wind shift from a storm front, that might blow the scent directly back into the weed patch and down the drainage. If the canines, wernt using the drainage, might be a dead spot, but I dont have much of a mind anymore. real nice looking ground you have out there.
I understand what your saying Steve, im just being a pain in the butt....jim

[trappnman]

Oh, ok- now I understand. You are talking a second set in the green hay field in the curve- other side of where this coyote was?

No -I didn't put a set there. I find that in this type of situation- the coyotes almost never take the hay field route- or, to be more exact- if they do, its as the crow flies. In other words- if they cross the hay, its close to the edges- not so much the main part.

And if they do- there is no pattern. The clump doesn't have the "point" effect that it has looking at it from the bean side.

Coyote might, might not come up to work it- the visual isn't as "sharp".

My second set was down at the far end, by the big weed clump.

[jsevering]

see how you are, now your messing with me (lol),
I meant eight feet out on the bean side,wind current drifting to the northeast if your picture was due north looking at the photo, to cover a wind shift, or if they decided to blow out the far or northerly drainage head under normal windage as you described (your second location looks like a dandy also)

we cant see that far around here unless were looking from one hill to the other (lol), mostly overgrown brush fields or woods, different type edges\growth with contours and longer draws, playing a bigger portion in location, I get in fields and can go location crazy, but the hubs are generally the same. you got some real pretty country there...jim

[trappnman]

Much as I'd like to romantically trap the west or SW- in terms of nice coyote habitat, I like what I have here.

Stuff seems so obvious out on my line- when I drive to conventions and pass thought the PA mountains, the UP, SD- I shake my head and wonder how anyone catches a coyote there!