Screens (plasma, thin, wide...)

[trappnman]

or steel...

I like using a trappers cap for 1.5 and 1.75. It makes fast work of bedding the trap and the concept of packing inside the jaws is ideally suited for the smaller traps- even a necessity in my view.

But on bigger traps- the concept of smaller kill area (desired on smaller traps) becomes muddied and even, as the trap size increases- becomes undesireable.

While we all want a solid pad catch- every trapper I know advocating bigger and/or four coiled traps does so at least partly because the bigger traps are able to hold that coyote there with a "poorer" catch if you will.

so to that end, many trappers using traps in say a#2 on up- use a screen as both a pan cover but also to extend the kill area of the trap.

When I started using my #2 Bridgers, I started using some screeen I had bought years ago. This screen had been dyed by another trapper and were stored in jars.

First 4-5 visits to the traps- I had the screens dug up. Odor, textures, thickness, material- whatever- I could see it was a problem so discarded them.

Since then, I just lift the jaw to pack and have had no problems. but I see the benefits of using screen- esp in traps bigger than #2.

So- how to?

[briankroberts]

I use Steel Screen on all off my 2's and larger, cut it as wide as the jaw width and 1/2" smaller than baseplate length.
then place the screen thru the jaws of the unset trap and center both ways the move about a 1/4" toward the dog then pull the screen thru the pan notch. Then set the trap so the screen pinches between the jaws and levers. This holds the screen tight and once you get the hang of it its a good system. If the screen is bubbling over the pan put a little bend in the screen before you start.....B.....

[trappnman]

Thanks Brian- do oy udip, wax?

I see that a lot of coyote men prefer lurking rather than helping out a rookie.....you think our western members would help out a poor "baby trap" coyote trapper.....

[17kiss]

O'G recommends waxing to stiffen them up a little..I waxed all mine and it does stiffen them up. I saw on another post somewhere where you can slit them to get em to lay flat also. Benefit of a bigger trap is you can bed deeper also , so more dirt over screen might help. Got to think bigger Steve ;D

[trappnman]

Well thats exactly it Jim- if I'm going to use 4 coiled traps- I might as well use them to take full advantage of their benefits .

[briankroberts]

I boil mine in baking soda, then boil in a little Dye as it don't hurt a thing, then I wax them also. I want them treated pretty much just like my traps since there right where I want him to put his foot.....B.....

[Wackyquacker]

I'm gonna guess that your screen was bubbled and gave the sense of movement which lead to the digging. You failed to mention if this digging / scratching was from large critters or mice etc. I was trapping a ranch east of here earlier this season and had hell to play with somallish tings messing with the screen. I have not had any yotes digging at my screen covers.

I do as Brian mostly. I do use Aluminum screen. I tried the bending trick but I guess I need to see it done. I place my thumb under the pan of a set trap and pull or other wise shape the screen cover to the size / shape of the pan. The jaws and sometimes some dirt packed on the lip of the screen before the loose jaw is lowered holds things well.

Things always seem more difficult than when
you hear of or see them done. On some traps that dang screen just won't cooperate and there is a slight "bubble" (1/8 inch or less). Don't fert this so much brush your first covering of soil back and fourth to fill the gap btween the screen and the pan. It works well for me.

[trappnman]

The digging was caused by coyotes- and was in late June- and that too might have been a problem.

The screeens I tried were too limp. I could see waxing would help-

And there are obviously different types of screens.

Are they the same?

[17kiss]

Steel is definitely stiffer , but hard to get. O"g sells it. But aluminum is readily abvailable , and if waxing should do.

[ChrisM]

Good morning Steve, from a western lurker!

I use only aluminum screen, cut 5.5 by 7 inches. This will work on everything from #2's to 4's.

I boil them for just a few minutes on the stove with a bit of baking soda. If working in very fine soils, like the Nebraska Sand Hills I will wax them. This is only to prevent the soil from running thru. Not to add stiffness.

To install, lay it in place on the unset trap. Slide it a bit too far towards the eye of the dog. Then hold in place and pull back towards you while forcing the notch in pan thru the screen. Now pull it some more to put a short rip in the screen where the dog meets the notch. This rip will help it to lay flat. With a little practice, you will be have the screen centered on the trap when your done.

Lay the loose jaw down on the screen. If there is a bubble over the pan, slide your thumb under the pan and with your other hand, form fit the screen to the pan by pushing down on the screen around the edges of the pan. The screen does not have to be completly flat on the pan.

After I cut my screens I pull them over the counter top to eliminate the curve or memory . makes it easier to store and transport them.

Important You have to cut your screens large enough to be held in place by the jaws. Also, do not cut a slit in the end so that you can slide the screen in after setting the trap. You need to install the screen before laying the trap in the bed.

Now the important question.....Does the use of screen really increase the pan or "kill area" of the trap?

I posted this on another forum a while back but will repeat it here for the new folks.

Yes, up to a point.

BUT, BUT, BUT, I think the whole thing about the screen having a bigger kill area has been overstated and exaggerated. The "any foot inside the jaws" statements are simply wrong!

I cut the screens large enough so that they lay under both jaws. So the "angle" of the screen is from the edge of the pan to the bottom of the jaw. If you can picture a cross section of a trap bedded and covered with dirt, with a screen installed as I described, you will see that the screen and pan actually form sort of a flat topped tee-pee (for lack of a better description) sloping down to the bottom of the inside of the jaws.

When using something like a underall, trappers cap or pan covers such as baggies or waxed paper that wont support the dirt's weight, you have a void only under the pan, with the entire area between the pan and the jaw filled/packed with dirt. On large traps, this creates a situation where the animal can stand inside the jaws but with his foot only partly on the pan. The packed dirt can and will support the animals weight prevention the trap from being tripped. (The first time I ever used the "underalls" I missed five coyotes on the first check. Each had a foot clearly inside the jaws but only partially on the pan. This was with #3 traps)

Contrast this with the sloping void created by the screen. A foot partially on the pan will not be supported by firm dirt underneath and will fire the trap. But due to the sloping of the screen/void you can see that out close to the jaws the dirt is deeper and in truth extends clear down to the bottom of the jaw, and will support the foot. This is a good thing, because we don't want animals springing the trap while a foot is on the jaw.

Thus "any foot inside the jaws" is not really true. Nor would we want it to be, or we would be firing traps when a foot is partially on the jaws. This is why G. Sterling was opposed to O'Gorman selling the Sterling traps with the special larger pans.

What is true is that the use of screens on large traps gives a larger kill area that eliminates some of the tracks inside the jaws.

On my traps with 5.5 and 6 inch jaw spreads I have seen no advantage in using the stiffer steel screen. Remember the screen does not really serve as a larger pan. All the screen has to do is support the weight of the dirt, and thus create the larger void. However on the larger traps with 6.5 inch jaw spreads there may be some advantage with the steel.

The use of screen offers other advantages also. It supports the weight of the dirt after a rain. This is not a small thing as it prevents the dreaded donut and saves having to re-bed traps during non-freezing temps. It also allows moisture to pass thru and evaporate which helps with wet spots. Allowing the moisture to pass through is the reason I don’t like to wax my screens unless forced to by soil types.

I use the screen on everything from #2's on up. I agree with Steve, that there are some advantages to a small pan on the smaller traps when used on coyotes. But I'm not so sure on fox sized critters. I think it all depends on the relationship between size of the target species foot and the distance between the edge of the pan and the jaws.

[trappnman]

Wow- what a post!

Lots of neat things to think about- I'll get back to you...

[trappnman]

Playing devils advocate- having never used screens more than those couple of times.....

Important You have to cut your screens large enough to be held in place by the jaws. Also, do not cut a slit in the end so that you can slide the screen in after setting the trap. You need to install the screen before laying the trap in the bed.

The screens I tried were obviously too small. They were like a double sized pan. Problem #1 cleared up.

Now the important question.....Does the use of screen really increase the pan or "kill area" of the trap?

Yes, up to a point.

BUT, BUT, BUT, I think the whole thing about the screen having a bigger kill area has been overstated and exaggerated. The "any foot inside the jaws" statements are simply wrong!

I think "any foot inside the jaws" better be there in the morning. Can I assume you meant "any foot partially in the jaws?"

If so- I have been guilty of that to an extent....to an extent ;D But the reason I say that is I have been lead to believe that bigger, 4 coiled or specialty traps WOULD take a good percentage of yotes toe caught- a common occurance IMO of firing the trap while standing on one jaw.

I cut the screens large enough so that they lay under both jaws. So the "angle" of the screen is from the edge of the pan to the bottom of the jaw. If you can picture a cross section of a trap bedded and covered with dirt, with a screen installed as I described, you will see that the screen and pan actually form sort of a flat topped tee-pee (for lack of a better description) sloping down to the bottom of the inside of the jaws.

When using something like a underall, trappers cap or pan covers such as baggies or waxed paper that wont support the dirt's weight, you have a void only under the pan, with the entire area between the pan and the jaw filled/packed with dirt. On large traps, this creates a situation where the animal can stand inside the jaws but with his foot only partly on the pan. The packed dirt can and will support the animals weight prevention the trap from being tripped. (The first time I ever used the "underalls" I missed five coyotes on the first check. Each had a foot clearly inside the jaws but only partially on the pan. This was with #3 traps)

Agreed- and the #1 WHY I use and recommend using a trappers cap for traps smaller than a #2- well- ok- the 1.75 LOL. It is absolutely essential that the coyote be standing 100% on the pan. O'Gorman (I DO agree a lot with the man- never having met him or used his products) said it best- "I don't have a lot of losses with little traps- but I have a lot of misses"

Contrast this with the sloping void created by the screen. A foot partially on the pan will not be supported by firm dirt underneath and will fire the trap. But due to the sloping of the screen/void you can see that out close to the jaws the dirt is deeper and in truth extends clear down to the bottom of the jaw, and will support the foot. This is a good thing, because we don't want animals springing the trap while a foot is on the jaw.

I can see this very well- in fact- its a nice descriptive picture of how a screen works...but...isn't this then in effect increasing the kill area? Making the area in which the pan will fire larger?

Thus "any foot inside the jaws" is not really true. Nor would we want it to be, or we would be firing traps when a foot is partially on the jaws. This is why G. Sterling was opposed to O'Gorman selling the Sterling traps with the special larger pans.


What is true is that the use of screens on large traps gives a larger kill area that eliminates some of the tracks inside the jaws.

What is true is that the use of screens on large traps gives a larger kill area

Hmmmn.


On my traps with 5.5 and 6 inch jaw spreads I have seen no advantage in using the stiffer steel screen. Remember the screen does not really serve as a larger pan. All the screen has to do is support the weight of the dirt, and thus create the larger void. However on the larger traps with 6.5 inch jaw spreads there may be some advantage with the steel.

So you DO want a larger kill area- just not as large as a full steel pan or stiff screen would be....in effect making the EDGES of your pans more sensistive.

THis makes sense.

The use of screen offers other advantages also. It supports the weight of the dirt after a rain. This is not a small thing as it prevents the dreaded donut and saves having to re-bed traps during non-freezing temps. It also allows moisture to pass thru and evaporate which helps with wet spots. Allowing the moisture to pass through is the reason I don’t like to wax my screens unless forced to by soil types.

I can see the advantage of this. Underalls of whatever type would take care of underpan seepage, but I can see how the non packed dirt of a larger trap would "sink" after settling w or w/o a rain without a sceeen.

[Stef]

Chris M good post!

I tried the trapper cap 1 season and the beginning of another one for a few check after seeing at one set a fox track inside the jaws of a #1.75 without firing the trap.
1 toe/pad was touching the pan and the 3 others were on the packed dirt inside the jaws

I missed so many that I quit using it.

For coyote and small traps, i don't have a problem with it but for fox...forget it.

Stef

[ChrisM]

Steve, you're giving me a headach!

Yes the screens create a larger "kill zone". (I thought I said that) But they do not make the intire area inside the jaws a pan. That is what I think has been exagerated.

"Can I assume you meant any foot partially in the jaws?"

yea, that would be more accurate........uh....I think!.....I'll go reread your post! lol

Stef, I agree 100%

[Stef]

Steve, take an aluminium cover and put it on a #2.
Formed it and take a stick

If you press with the stick three quarter of an inch from the pan, when the trap will fire, you will be touching the base plate

Stef

[17kiss]

The screen incresse the kill by approx. 1 or so inches the whole way around other than dog. which is especially beneficial with the larger traps. the 6-6.5 in spread traps are where screen shines. I played with screen all summer and set a few with , just have not worked up the perfect system for it yet. Liked it enough that next year all my 2s and 3s will be wearing one. Steve , the worry about standing on jaw and firing is a very , very slim probabaility. Try experimenting with it and a trap pecker. I know you have one of them. You will see what I mean then. Chris M also stated the fact that it should be under jaws which is absolute for controlling bubbling. O'G published a detailed analysis and description of size and use of the steel screen covers. It is called Coyote warriors. free if you can prove you own or buy a copy of hoofbeats. covers the subject well , and as you know he is a stickler to details about studies.

[Edge]

Hijacking the thread for a second.....
Chris M,did you do a demo at the NTA this year?What you just wrote sounds awful familiar.If it was you,nice job.

Edge

[Mark]

I tried the fiberglass screen and didn't like it. I believe I would like a stiffer screen even less. Maybe the kill area would be increased, but I would prefer they were stepping on the pan regardless of the trap size. If you are bedding the trap properly, it would seem to me the kill area would not be increased at all. I really like the new latex rubber covers. They fom-fit to whatever you do and they never impede the trap.

Mark

[ChrisM]

Thanks Edge. Yes that was me, trying to talk (and howl) above all the P.A. speakers and delivery trucks! lol

Mark, not sure I follow you. Why would "properly" bedding a trap restrict kill area?

[trappnman]

The dilemma is this- on a smaller trap- a coyote can easily have a couple of toes on the pan- or more- and still be standing on the jaw. If the trap fires then- you have a toe caught coyote at best- and a pinched pullout at worst.

The solution is simple- the trap HAS to be bedded solid (packed tight dirt) inside the jaws as well as outside around the jaws. By doing this- a coyote has to pretty much be standing right on the pan- the kill area if you will -to fire the trap. This USUALLY results in a solid, full pan catch-

Until I learned this trick- I had a lot of "pullouts"- which in reality aren't pullouts but misses.
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In a larger trap if packed tight- the coyote can have 1 or 2 toes on the pan- and be WITHIN the circle of the jaws. This results in the situation ChrisM described- tracks inside the jaws but unfired traps.

So- the screen was born.

I understand that there are other reasons for using screeens, but as Mark points out (I'm reading between the lines LOL)- there are better ways to keep junk out from under the pan if thats your goal.

Sooooooo- the MAIN goal must be- and will be for me- to increase that kill area-

Where I was confused (specifically to this thread rather than generally) was in how MUCH I wanted to increase the kill area. Chris was right- I originally thought that screen use meant increasing the kill areas out to the jaws. After all, hearing about all the stories told concerning "big iron" I did have the impression that such was the case.

But as Wiley E says (I'll just have to quote him until he shows up- and I'll keep bugging him enough until he does!) - " Don't for a minute think that big iron trappers take every coyote that fires the trap- cause they don't. And if they tell you different, they haven't taken many coyotes"

And I can see that is true. While "big iron" might (ok, will ) hold a few more poorly caught coyotes- overall- a poor hold is a poor hold and that results in misses.

Chris's "void" description was very enlightening. While I knew the effect- visualizing it in that term gave me a new perspective. So the closer to the pan, the more void.

Let me ask this- what I did on my #2 was just to sift dirt and pack somewhat- but time consuming at best.

Now I am wondering if that is needed. What difference would soft dirt just sifted inside the jaws make over dirt sifted over a flexable screen? Yes, the void would be bigger- but on a correctly set pan- the soft unpacked dirt would, one would think, have enough give in it to
sort of create the void.
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Thinkin' will do that to a guy Chris... ;D