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Post by Obejoyful on Jan 25, 2004 20:22:07 GMT -6
Stef, you come out to the Arizona high country at 5500'-6200' and I'll show you all the wet, muddy,snowy and frozen ground you can stand. It's a many a morning that if I don't get out "on the freeze" I'm driveing sideways as often as straight ahead on the slick clay we have for soil.
When it comes to weather we all have our personal crosses to bare and speed dip still is the best option available.
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Post by Stef on Jan 25, 2004 20:50:58 GMT -6
I'm sure you don't stay at that elevation trapping when things get dirty Glad that speed dip work for you but you probably don't see what you're missing maybe??? Stef
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Post by pafoxtrapper on Jan 25, 2004 21:17:54 GMT -6
Hey guys, i used to use dye (never waxed) for my canine line. Worked fine but i wanted something quicker. This year i switched to dip. The water based stuff that is. I like it a lot. I didnt have any digging adn the dip itself held up well on the traps. No, i do not wax, its just something i've never done. After deer season i redipped a bunch of them and reset them a couple days later. Again, had no problem catching fox. From now on, i'm convinced that this is the way to go for me.
The soil where i live is very wet, especially this year. Just my two cents. Very interesting thread.
kris
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Post by Obejoyful on Jan 25, 2004 22:10:37 GMT -6
Sorry Stef, I live and work up here all year round and I know exactly what I'm not missing with speed dip. One question is why you would continue to hang onto antiquated technology like dye and waxing when there's such a superior method available?
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Post by trappnman on Jan 25, 2004 22:29:51 GMT -6
I've had dips work good. But I have also had, without a doubt, traps dipped that were consistently dug up by coyotes.
At the very least this means that the dips are inconsistent and vary from batch to batch.
I guess if you use dips without problems- then ya' got a system that works for you ....
If you get digging with dips- go to dye/wax...and your problems will stop.
Ohbejoyful- A few years back I would have agreed with you 100%. But because of the consistent digging problems that I isolated to the trap- for whatever reason- I no longer have confidence in dips for my coyotes here.
As some cowboy said in the NTA video- "I'm not saying thisi s the only way, just saying thats what works for me here.."
But I do wonder why.
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Post by Obejoyful on Jan 25, 2004 23:16:25 GMT -6
Ok trappnman I'll buy that arguement. Thats why they have horse races. Some folks bet on the black and some folks bet on the bay.
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Post by Wackyquacker on Jan 25, 2004 23:41:00 GMT -6
Well, now how many tiimes have I seen this one kicked around. There is a trend here that I've notice; here in the southwest the dips work just fine. I've dipped and re dipped and I haven't had a digger yet this year. I too work four big ranches in NM and I just don't see the problems.
As for an explination, I'll venture a guess that the dips may cure differently here and no I don't know what exactly that means. So wax and dye till the cows come home if that's what it takes for you in your region and weather...I know I would if I had to.
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Post by mac on Jan 26, 2004 5:41:14 GMT -6
Jeepers, I really appreciate all of the responces. thanks once again. Mac
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Post by dj88ryr on Jan 26, 2004 7:57:44 GMT -6
Ok, Mac, are you thouroughly confused now? ;D Just goes to show, that often there is not RIGHT answer, it just takes experimentation to find what works for you. BTW Mac, I always used wax and dye up in NH too, I guess I just enjoy the full days of boiling, dying and waxing
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Post by Edge on Jan 26, 2004 9:24:52 GMT -6
I've heard comments siilar to Obejoyfuls before,it seems the dip(referring to k9 traps)works well in dry climates. I have used the water-based dip....traps rusted underneath it,omong other things,no more. I've used the gas dips with,coleman fuel,unleaded reg gas,and high-test regular gas,also with mineral spirits. Absolutely never again,sorry I wasted the time I did. I do not treat water traps seperately,as my k9 traps,once soiled,go to the water line. I figure my little tests cost me several thousand dollars in lost fur and time....dye and wax always and forever for me.
Edge
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Post by trappnman on Jan 26, 2004 10:30:06 GMT -6
With exceptions, I have noticed that also.
While humidity, local conditions might be the answer, the only real answer- another thought has come to me (3 in a morning-ouch!).
Many in other localitys have had success with dipd- but not consistently. As I mentioned, my best year on canines (107 coyotes, 25 mixed fox) was taken on speed dip.
Could the answer not be the smell on the tap- but the local population of coyotes?
In other words- would the densitys added to the food availability and type- be the answer?
I have always heard (please, correct me if I am wrong) that coyote densities are higher in the "desert" southwest regions. Is there more competition for food- thus causing coyotes to work sets more aggressively when food might be present? Or are they just more aggressive towards sets generally- studies on smaller mammals have noted big behavior changes in populations when the density gets too high.
So is this the key? Is that why dips work for some people sometimes, some people never and some people all the time?
--------------------------------------------------------------
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Post by musher on Jan 26, 2004 11:44:55 GMT -6
I was a boiler and I've been a dipper for more than a decade now. I've had no problems with the stuff, HOWEVER, I dip in June to set at the end of Oct.. My equipment is exposed to the elements until it gets set. I use naphta to mix and I don't overdo it with a thick dip.
I tried the water dip. Love it on snares. Rust comes out too quickly on traps.
I redip over old dip BUT I give the trap a good pine branch boil before doing so. Yes, some of my springs are now gunky but there's no rust.
Are all dips created equal? I don't know but from what I read it seems not. Aarons has been my brand for the last 4 years or so. I like it. Blackie's was more "sludgy."
I think that if I dipped in cool, Fall weather just before the season I wouldn't like dips very much.
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Post by mac on Jan 26, 2004 16:49:12 GMT -6
I tried a cold dip on a very small line one fall several years ago. I set a few traps which remained in the ground for two weeks. No digs, no pawing, no nothing. I pulled and went to fisher trapping. Later that season, about Christmas time I put out a few sets. Carefully blended cache or flat sets. They set for a week then each had the pan cover removed. I immediately figured it had to be the dip.
I have to admit that I have had dyed and waxed traps pawed at or dug a time or two but almost to the one I put fur on the board. A smart animal does not play with a loaded gun. I never had any real problem catching diggers, it has always been the standers and lookers that have bothered. I did not have time to mess around any longer with the cold dipped traps that season to see if I could snag one.
The next summer I cleaned them all and went back to wax. Then next few falls it was back to normal. I don't amass large amounts of fur as I run a small line. A few coyotes and fox suits me fine. I am afraid my days of running a long line are done. Acutally I am not afraid but that is another story.
I appreciate all the replies. I have wanted to try the dips again and have asked a lot of guys. I have a friend that uses it successfully. I recently talked on the phone to a well known trapper/writer from the mid west that uses cold dip successfully. I think there is more to it than location in the country. I have heard it said that it won't work in cold weather. Like I said I called the trapper/writer recently. That day he had harvest three coyotes. Go figure.
The idea of using fuel on a canine trap used to send shivers down my spine. But after hearing of guys that do it, well, I am interested.
Thanks to everyone for their input.
Mac
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Post by trappnman on Jan 26, 2004 17:40:58 GMT -6
Zagman must be a riot at staff meetings- I have 3 trapping quotes that stick in my mind- and Zags is the author of 2 of them. Always keep this in mind "It's not how many you catch- but how many you miss" My best consecutive 3 day take of coyotes was 7,9 and 5- two of my best days ever. Taken on gasoline based dip. Think if the traps would have been waxed... -------------------------------------------------------------- my other two mantras: Zags: " "Fresh places, fresh faces"Tom Miranda: "You don't make money checking traps: yo umake money setting traps" "
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Post by Stef on Jan 26, 2004 18:56:57 GMT -6
Ok Obejoyful, I was just checking your guts ;D I know a guy who was cooking his dipped dry traps and had success. The only way I can see that Obejoyful and others have a lot of success with dip, its probably because they have the heat to dry the product good or they have a lot of coyotes Stef
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Post by Wackyquacker on Jan 28, 2004 21:19:40 GMT -6
There were (use ta be) more coyotes in the west than other places. However, the pret base here doesn't comp[are to that of the mid west and east. A high average for yotes in the lower Sanoran Desrtet of Az is probably 2 per section. In NM if we hit one per section I think we'd be covered up with them. Yes, they can concentrate for various reasons but on average I'd bet were closer to .5 coyotes per section...may be less.
This dip issue maybe more complicated /complexs than meets the eye. All I know is I dip, boil redip on and on and on, including my drag chain and I don't have problems. Also, I work them till they stop comin. As I saids above I dip in August /Sept and the traps hang in the sun / raiin / snow till Dec when they go into the ground.
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Mark
Demoman...
Posts: 219
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Post by Mark on Jan 29, 2004 12:02:03 GMT -6
Three weeks ago I cleaned, tuned, base-plated and four coiled (I know: 4-coiling is controversial, but I am trying it. The only way I will know for sure. They certainly are faster and stronger) and then NB cold dipped them. This is a water based mix. I have no idea what will happen. Many fox to my credit and this first year for coyotes I have 3 and missed a few from various goofs. I have a few real good spots that I have permission for.... real good!!! lots of sign. I have had No dig-ups this year, and all I did was boil the traps with walnut hulls. (my old favorite) The traps have been hung outside for 3 weeks on a big pine tree. They are now in a plastic tote in the back of my capped truck.(sacred ground) I will let you know what happens. I hope it ain't bad.
Mark
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Post by Zagman on Jan 29, 2004 13:20:01 GMT -6
Used gas dips for a few years when I was working the PA fox circuit.....then moved to NYS and did the same thing for several years. Had confidence in that product, and like others said before, dipped early and let them air out. But, "how many did I miss?"
When the water-based dip came out, I tried it the very first year and have used it every year since.
The first coyote I catch usually takes it back down to bare-steel. Same with the coon catches.....
I just set the trap back and wait for the next catch.
The reason I don't mind this is that I trap for such a short time, rarely is a trap in the ground for more than a week.....
If I were to to trap for a longer time and expect more from those traps, there is no question that I would wax and dye those traps, or at the very least, just wax 'em.
I have plenty of traps and just swap them out if there is any concern, the trap is damaged, etc.
I do not rust the new traps, I just give them several dippings.......
I have never been comfortable with the idea that I must rust a trap so that I can dip it to prevent it from rusting!
Many of my coyote pics are of coyotes in silver traps....
I went to a double-bucket dipping system this year.....it was expensive (two gallons of Forumla One) but it was fast.....can do three #2 or #3's at a time per bucket and I can really fly. I rig a 2X4 over the buckets with nails to hang the traps on and let the excess dip drip back into the bucket......
Speed is important since I usually do at least two dippings, and with new traps, often three dippings.
Now that I think of it, maybe cold dips aren't that much of a time saver!
Zagman
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Post by trappnman on Jan 29, 2004 14:00:51 GMT -6
rusty traps, less urine use, 25% less coyotes......i'm not Z, but I can connect the dots.....
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Post by Stef on Jan 29, 2004 14:24:51 GMT -6
Zag, that is what I've found. I never really saved time using dip.
With the dye and wax method, I clean traps one day and boil and wax the next day and I'm done and I can go setting the traps the next day with confidence.
Stef
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