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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 28, 2006 15:11:47 GMT -6
If your drowning 90% then I don't see the beef? I mean it has been stated as a positive in the new manual? Drags I would assume they can get to land? Unless your using something of sizable weight?
I don't see the issue then keep on keeping on?
The BMP's are here to stay, we can work toward the goal or fight them. Much bigger issues will arise for sure from the anti's, just as your Bobcat issue another way for them to find loop holes as they know on science there a done deal in that arena, all the BMP's do is add creditability to trapping and make the AR's try other ways of impeding trapping in states.
Don't under estimate the power of the IAFWA and there goal to see trapping continue on for many,many years. They are a powerful voice in DC and are for the hunter and trapper on many,many issues.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 28, 2006 15:32:20 GMT -6
Drowning 90% of my winter coon. I catch 50% of my coon on land w/o much chewing- with a methods and with a trap, that "experts" say can't be done.
Thats the point.
Drowning is besides the point.
You brought up drowning as if it was a recommendation- it is not.
Because drowning was mentioned in an aside on an unrelated issue, I should stop talking about the bad coon bmps?
sorry- won't happen.
Every demo I do on coon, I'll make the point- the coon bmps are bogus because of the protocol.
Seems funny, the only 2 publicly defending the coon bmps here- don't trap coon.
The coon bmps are WRONG. the DATA is correct- the PROTOCOL is horrendous.
I'm sure the so called coon experts at the NTA, also believe coon will "pull themselves out of traps" in entanglement- because THATS why all the old books said "don't set a coon trap where a coon can reach anything, or he will pull himself out of the trap"
And that's pure bogus information also.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 28, 2006 15:38:48 GMT -6
I have small creeks.
I trap coon on small creeks.
Many trappers trap coon on small creeks.
Moveable branch drags- allow freedom of movement both land and water- until they get entangled.
Access to land isn't a problem IF THE COON HAS FREEDOM TO MOVE.
staked solid is the problem.
I can clearly see- you really don't understand at all about coon, entanglement, motion and cover.
And thats fine. You are a coyote trapper. No reason you should know.
Unfortunatley- people with the same understanding as you, wrote the bmps protocals on coon.
And thats NOT fine.
That sucks.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 28, 2006 17:38:17 GMT -6
Tman it's not that I don't know about coon or trapping them have many in my time, thing is not all things work out for all coon trappers. Some areas I have dragged coons lead to problems due to cover being so thick you don't get the tangle untangle issues you describe, other areas like irrigation ditches you don't have lumber laying around and a drag can find them at distances that make it counter productive to running a speedy line, not enough water in them to drown coon, never tried the stake in 2'3" of water deal. I always stake them on the bank and gave them chain, if they could get under a cut bank with grass many looked good, also depends on the coon as well. It also cut down on coon craters at the waters edge which helped remake sets faster.
I haven't taken coon trapping to your level of comfort, back in the day no real need running a 24 hr line and all. Used some cement weights to allow them access to land due to water rises and the such, worked fairly well. I can assure you many guys I know stake coon solid as it is fast and in areas the best way to run and efficant trap line.
Once snaring came into my life I found that to be the most efficant for me, alot of guys can't use them or don't want to for whatever reason, just a different tool for a different area with better results for many.
Submersion was mentioned in a postitve that is the bottom line, if it talked directly about coons or not. I wouldn't say those who wrote the coon BMP's have no knowledge about coon trapping I don't think that would be a fair statement. They may not have your knowledge in your area, that would be a factual statement.
There bogus because they don't fit your mode of operation and your conditions? If you trapped coons in other areas you would see the need to change and adapt techniques from what you currently use I would bet.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 28, 2006 19:20:55 GMT -6
Entanglement is only one method to reduce chewing. if conditions are right, use it. If not there are other methods. For example, drainage ditch to shallow to drown? Drowning wire stretched horizontal from bank to bank with a stop midway is one method to hold the coon in water. Weights with a tangle stake is another. But- not deemed humane by "experts" Sorry- its their opinion, and should mean NOTHING in so called scientific tests. Ask any coon trapper out there and tell me THEIR opinion on holding coon in water. Point being- the coon bmp was poorly done, in my opinion of course. and more to the point- ALL the things I was talking about were shot done by Dave H....for 2 reasons 1) entanglement bad 2) holding in water inhumane and THREE- an important point -Dave told me coon drowning would NEVER be approved. I see nothing in that one sentence to disprove this. As stated, let Dave come on here or elsewhere in a public statement and say it is approved and recommended. If not, then as I also stated, that ONE statement is meaningless. Pretty hard to make tests, when tests for that aren't/weren't allowed.
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Post by Steve Gappa on Aug 29, 2006 7:47:23 GMT -6
Don't under estimate the power of the IAFWA and there goal to see trapping continue on for many,many years
Thats assuming the funding continues. Many of those involved in the bmps, don't see that happening.
So what happens when the bmps become "dead" documents?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 29, 2006 13:13:57 GMT -6
The IAFWA has been and will be around for many years! BMP"s tough to say how long funding will be there? At the worst we have a baseline to compair all new tools to. The majority of the first go rounds for "most" species are done, that is why they tested in order of priority of species.
They won't be dead at all, they will continue to be a resource for new trappers and old alike.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 30, 2006 6:54:39 GMT -6
At worst, we will have a closed document, that will be unchanged by new methods and equipment.
And in the case of coon, we already have the worse case scenerio.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 30, 2006 13:12:39 GMT -6
Tman still looking at this from a regulation stand point?
At worst, we will have a closed document, that will be unchanged by new methods and equipment.
Kind of like what we had before the BMP process? Why would anyone want to come out with new equipment when they get blasted for making progress with foot enclosed type traps? And seen as having a bias on them and swaying results in past studies?
Methods that work will be used by those that can benefit from them, called videos and books. We didn't nor need the BMP process to have new ideas or methods for trapping. The BMP's are to test the tool and see how it performs in to areas 1. Capture efficiency. 2. Injury threshold. You could argue that can change with methods, but it also can change with design of the tool and the tool is what the BMP's are about and books and videos are for methods.
Methods are related to geographic areas and trapline efficantcy the tool doesn't change but the methods sure will depending on many factors of geographic nature.
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Post by sinrud on Nov 23, 2006 16:39:18 GMT -6
Woop-T-Doo! We are all so excited about new restrictions etc. Did anyone even notice the revised manual including 1x19 cable as "legal"? Hmm - wonder how that happened. If you want to know how someone stands on issues then call and ask! Talk to the FTA if you want to know their position. If you want to know how to get the new BMPs then call Bryan White (BMP Fur Biologist). After all - he produces them. Sinrud
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