What do we want then?

[trappincoyotes39]

Wayne I do ADC and use a large portion of footholds, regional differances, why domestics and where we conduct work is far different. You don't use foothold traps alot because of public perception and urban settings, that is what the BMP's are about to help change some of that perception, not to the hard core anti, but to the very people who call you for work and others,to keep state mandated closer of trapping from happing state by state and to have a better informed public, so if states come up for vote on trapping the Game depts and the people are better informed on trapping with factual information.

To be useful at all the BMP must be useful to the fur trapper and should identify and support the use of the most EFFICIENT traps available. Any trap that is limited to baited sets, like Eggs, Griz, duffers, etc., isn't as efficient as one that can be used in blind sets also.

Not saying these you mention are the only tools for coons, but specialized traps for trappers and ADC in urban areas, those you mentioned do work in blind sets , the grizz and duffer can be made to look like a crawdad hole, the egg trap would have enough visability to catch a coons interest, most trap sets can perform better with bait or lure, there are guys that have caught 1,000 coon each with the grizz I wouldn't call that a trap that is lacking in the efficant catagory.

I do agree the most efficant traps should be used and thats why efficantcy is a part of the testing, along with injury scores.

Therefor why not just show where a trap is more effective and let the facts speak for themselves?

I would be the 330 on land would test out to be very effective but how many states would/do allow use on dry land? The testing isn't for the antis so much as the middle ground voting public, and to have data to back up claims on the humane aspects of trapping tools,why would anyone want to see a high efficant/ amputator trap get a passing grade? What are we gaining by this line of thought over the past 50+ years in dealing with the issue of trapping and animal welfare? That is the sticking point, it has been and will be the animal welfare issues of trapping.

[trappnman]

you can argue anything you want, including moon is made up of blue cheese- but bottom line is still:

1) coon bmps protocol is bogus
2) coon bmps are junk

since it seems that those that support bmps are unable to distinguish between bogus studies and competent studies- it has to be accept ALL or none., I've now changed my mind.

I now am AGAINST ALL bmps, and will work as hard as I can to discredit them wherever and whenever asked or given the opportunity.

BMPS are going to be the downfall of trapping. ADC men and hobby trappers (those setting 3-4 traps a year) will be unaffected. Everyone else is going down the tubes.

[SgtWal]

As you should know, if there is one form of trapping that will survive far into the future it is ADC. It is far more regulated and scrutinised than trapping in general. And most involved are very careful to not do anything to give themselves a black eye.
With testing and permit issues, fewer ADC trappers are nimrods. An ADC trapper must be able to target a specific animal within a species, not just the species as a whole. This requires better skills at reading and recognising sign as well as knowledge of animal habits and lifestyles outside of trapping seasons. They must also master a much wider range of capture methods.
The ADC trapper though is trapping in a single case environment. The land owner called me for help. Specific laws alow this. I tailor my tools and actions to a specific situation, on a specific animal.
Because I operate in the same world as the Bug Sprayers, I have less contact with those who oppose trapping. Very often I slip in do my work and slip out unnoticed.
That is why the BMP is far more important to the fur trapper. They must seek out trapping opportunities and run lines for extended periods. Often on public grounds where I'm always on private property.
The public accepts me as a necessary evil like the Bug Guys. As most of my catches leave the area alive and unharmed, I get less bad press. Look in my truck and all you see are live healthy animals.
The fur harvester works in a different world. They are seen carrying the dead animals and selling their skins.
These images over ride any good they may be doing for animals in general or a specific area's problems.
The BMP is for them. They need the help of a factual presentation of how traps work. But that being said, what good does it do if they cannot catch and hold the animals they seek in the quantities they need?
I don't argue that species specific traps are good traps, Hell I use my Eggs sometimes for cage shy coons, but show me one case where one was set blind on a bridge ledge or trail where a foothold would work.
Many of these cannot be reset or removed from a live animal by a lone person. This prevents culling and release of smalls.
The fur trapper has needs. These have not been fully addressed under the current process. And it has caused a split between them and the BMP supporters.


wayne

[trappincoyotes39]

The public accepts me as a necessary evil like the Bug Guys. As most of my catches leave the area alive and unharmed, I get less bad press. Look in my truck and all you see are live healthy animals

Again a regional thing as you look in my truck and all you see will be dead critters, the people I work for don't want them alive or could careless. I also have a good image in my area, as it is all ranchers and know how the plan works and gladly excepts the outcome.

More people with proper education can see fur trappers as the same a needed evil, in somes mind because we have more urban sprawl and more critters looking to find homes and adapting at rates much quicker than most would expect. The images are overided because of the anti propaganda, hunting is killing yet far more excepted than trapping, becuase of the marketing hunting and Game depts do to show hunters are in deed a vital part of population control, we hear less of that on trapping even though it is factual.

But that being said, what good does it do if they cannot catch and hold the animals they seek in the quantities they need?

First did you see the 3 men that caught 1,000+ coon each in a fall with the grizz traps? How many more are needed? Secondly are you claiming all BMPs as bad for trappers because of how the coon BMP turned out? I don't think because ALL traps for ALL speices haven't made it to testing grounds as a reason that trappers need to be ham stringed or the thought of that as the outcome. State to state is how things have been regulated and will continue to be so, too many thinking the sky is falling on this BMP deal, when it has yet to see the end of day. If people worried as much about loosing their trapping privlages as a whole as they do what the BMP's "could" mean for them in the comming years we would be in a much better boat!

I will state again, ask anyone in a state were trapping has been balloted and voted illegal if they would be much better off with the BMP as guidlines or not? It isn't about the BMP's becomming state to state law, but how the BMP"s help to inform people that what we use is seen as humane by the very people that don't like trapping and given these things a passing grade. The main thing is we have both sides on this issue and yet there has been common ground met and tools approved by those who don't care for trapping to begin with. That shows to people that the tools that have passed must be adiqaute if you have the opposing side signing off on it as passing humane standards. That is a big plus to trappers no matter how you want to slice it.

Now on to the coon BMP, I think it was rushed to get something done and I also think that to many people had too much say, out of fear that the 1.5 reg jaw may not pass, but so far it has been the tool tested in all BMP's and I feel that is the way to gain the most freedom for the tool and to compair it against other tools as fairly as possible, don't forget the double jaw has passed, so are trappers really at a loss? Taking into consideration that no state has yet to make the 1.5 or any other tool illegal because of a BMP data study. I also don't think the 1.5 is done yet or dead by any means and I also feel it should stand alone as the tool, and maybe some could see their is too much room under the jaws for the coons to chew. Or pass it with stipulations to correct setting techniques, but again you will have complaining on that end as well, and we can't just pass it for the sake of passing it and maintain the creditblity with the general public.

There is no way all traps can pass for all species, that is just a fact as not all are made to meet standards for the speices in question, but lets not loose site that this is data research and suggestions and that if some states make laws from it, then those that pass will still be avaible to trappers and trapping stays alive in those states. I think alot do not want to look at the fact that the states that are most likely to implament these into regs and laws are states that might have just as well with no data, no fact findings been the next in line to loose trapping privlages anyhow. I don't know how to make that any clearer.