coyotes in snow

[Deleted]

Aug 31, 2021 8:19:48 GMT -6 trappnman said:

on the mindset on your catch circles-

the only gland lure that would smell like a coyote, would be if you took the glands from a fresh killed coyote, and immediately used them on another set------and even that would very quickly loose the real live coyote smell as it decomposes. I think gland helps a lure, but as a "gland lure" not a fan.

the point I was trying to make, was would that 2nd coyote, be afraid of coyote smells from a familiar coyote? I can't think that it would- he would be used to strong odor residue in any place the 1st coyote hung out. So strong smells of that coyote surely wouldn't spook another of the same social circle. or be afraid of a bare spot with a hole in the ground. If anything, wouldn't that trigger a more bold approach?

But if the coyotes coming through are true travelers or nomads- then I could understand reluctance to enter that area. If the location of the remake was a pass through area- an area where defenses were on alert- he might well be reluctant to work it.

but in a location in a place he spends time....wouldn't all that change? In my opinion, for sure.

I have proved time and time again that a stick 1.5”x8” above ground with different gland lure in a filter strip placed directly on the coyotes travelway where no stick ever existed , completely out of place to the surrounding area can make them fearful (by their body posture and body langauge) not approach the stick and swing about 6’-8’ away and travel on.  Remove the stick and every coyote would come to the gland lure and depending on the quality of the gland lure piss on the it of just give a quick distant sniff and leave.

Why wouldn’t a coyote when they see this blown-up area of a catch circle that wasn’t there before like the stick not cause the same reaction, see it, come within 6’ or so, and walk around it?

[trappnman]

Don't you think that they come across torn up circles all day, including tearing up some themselves? Badger diggings are common, as are gophers. woodchucks, etc. Bare spots occur all over. so if the question is does a catch circle spook coyotes, in my experience absolutely not. And of course I mean over all, not specific animals. All my methods during season are based on general behavior. Come back to an area after trapping, and tracks all over and holes blown out.

but sticks are a different thing altogether. I've often told the story about my walking path and a stick I placed and how the coyotes detoured around it for evermore. BUT- take a straight fencepost (a stick so ot speak) at a gopher set, and its gopher on a stick as Lori says.

why the different reactions? One singular stick was an oddity- a bunch of them is just a fence of gophers. Familiarity. mindset.

I'm convinced the difference in reaction to your admitted non stall out areas, vs stall out areas is familiarity. Mindset.

That reactions, change with mindset. And really, that's become my silver bullet------ mindset vis a vis location.

in a nut shell- that the same set, the same lures- will produce better in a location where the coyotes defenses are down, when he has time to putter, etc. I also believe that most "walk-bys" aren't misses in that the coyote refused your set...its that the coyotes mindset was so singleminded, that he was simple unaware of the set.

[Deleted]

Now wait a minute we're not talking about just any torn up area, we're talking about an area that wasn't torn up before just like the stick from nowhere appearing.  How do you know that all these other torn up areas they encounter were walked in the 1st or even the 2nd time they were through?  How do you know that?  How is a catch circle any different then a rib bone all of a sudden sticking up like the stick, a skull from nowhere, and Marty's turned over piece of sod that wasn't turned over yesterday?  Why then if their sudden appearance doesn't matter but they are being used as a visual attractant, why aren't you using them right on top of the set like you'd remake a catch circle?  

We've both read the studies about new objects and some coyotes are timid and some bold, so the higher the population in any given area means you have more of each regardless of the % differences so the chances of either and both seeing the catch circle increases! 

You really do need some video cameras! LOL

 herein a nut shell- that the same set, the same lures- will produce better in a location where the coyotes defenses are down, when he has time to putter, etc. I also believe that most "walk-bys" aren't misses in that the coyote refused your set...its that the coyotes mindset was so singleminded, that he was simple unaware of the set.

Like I've said, if people don't have or can't find these putter-places on the properties they have permisssion to trap, they need to use a better lure or bait to change the coyote's mindset instead of hoping that the location will!  Using a camera instead of guesswork and theory will prove it!

You don't think any of my testing videos are made at putter-places do you?  Look at the videos, do you see a putter-place or a travel-way?  I certainly hope you don't think I cut & paste videos because I don't even edit mine, they're all raw footage!  People have no idea how many lures and baits I tested that could NOT change a coyote's mindset so it’s easy for me to understand those that don’t think there is BUT there are some.  Find track, hang a camera and put in the test.  That's it, there isn't anymore that that just coyotes traveling/moving through, whereever as long as I have a track to work with.

That is how I do my testing videos.  Now if you watch my tapping videos someone might say-"hey, he caught that coyote in a putter-place" oh BS, LMAO! if it is it's by accident!  Just like in my testing videos ,found track, set trap, and caught the coyote.

[trappnman]

Every set I make- every set- is started by taking a mataxe and chopping up a large area around at least 3 sides of the set.

and then a 3" hole at one end.

So - that should scare off every coyote around if your theory is correct- yet it doesn't.

and it doesn't take long- with foxes and possums and coon and skunk and feral cats- to make every set you have, a remake. And that doesn't scare off coyotes to the point the refuse to work a set. Badgers make an incredible mess- digging many many holes after one gopher- woodchucks have multiple burrows, gophers can leave huge piles of dirt- overnight- yet coyotes are on top of them before I get there that day.

Farmers scrape roads, and edges, etc- leaving lots and lots of bare dirt- all overnight.

dirt is natural- like after time my gopher on a stick is run trap to trap by coyotes and badgers becomes natural-

There must be a reason -why your coyotes won't work remakes, and won't work badger diggings.

Of course I believe some lures have different reactions. and I trapped for decades EXACTLY like you portray- set spokes, and wait. I don't need cameras to tell me that such places see less REGULAR action than stall out locations. Unless we disagree on that?

Its not I can't catch them like that- its I prefer to get as many as I can, in the short window I have- and thats going to the coyotes, not let the coyotes come to me.

I don't believe there is a silver bullet lure- one that vastly outperforms any other. I think that lure matters, but that location matters more, and yes, I can catch a coyote with a pork chop nailed to a tree........

I guess I just don't see the argument-

If he is there every night, I'll catch him quicker than if hes there 1x a week-

and if its a place where his buddies hang out, I'll catch more over a shorter time, than not.

Lets make it mink- I go to a creek and see 10 places that would be good blind sets. But- I choose the 11th. Now- if I set, I WILL catch a mink...might be next check, might be last. But any of those 10 better locations- my odds go up considerably until the top location- will give me mink "quick"

Same principle

[trappnman]

about the stick- thats travelways too- same as avoiding snares.

let me tell my story again-

walked a creek everyday to check some non drowning coon sets. On way back, I'd walk a trail on edge of little wooded belt next to creek. The trail was maybe 2 feet wide- I walked it everyday in packed snow, and every day would be fresh coyote tracks. So I thought (before we had snares) if I place this stick (pencil thick, about 4 feet tall) opposite this big tree- it would be a perfect place to hang a snare.

I placed that stick in the snow- and the next day, and forever after for all I knew- every coyote walking that trail veered around that stick in the plowed corn, and rejoined the trail on the other side. Never saw another coyote track going between the tree and the stick, even though I walked it yet.

found the same with snares when we got them- very cautious about any blocking or something in their travelline.

[Deleted]

You count on finding a location that changes a coyote’s mind set and because of permissions and population I find a lure/bait mixture that changes a coyote’s mindset wherever it is.  A “silver bullet” maybe, “dang good,” maybe you can call a 1:1.2 catch ratio anything you want.  For those not understanding the catch ratio, a 1:1.2 means 10 coyotes are caught for every 12 sets where a particular lure/bait was used.  

[trappnman]

I can confidently say, that I believe any trap I set out, will, given time, catch a coyote. I know that sounds like bragging, but it's not. Not that I can catch every coyote that walks, but a generic one sure. I understand that's your measure, I personally feel trap night success tells me more.

[Deleted]

Imo, trap-night is a correlation to population, nothing to do with the attractiveness of the scent being used.  You can’t catch a coyote if no coyote comes to the set location regardless of the lure.  It’s catching every coyote that comes is caught if it takes 1 night or 12.  It’s the ones that take 16-18 nights to come back when I’m long gone.

[braveheart]

I have never run a camera on coyotes on lure. I just wait till time to trap and set for the coyote to test. Give out a bunch to State trappers to test as well. Not much on first day checks but every day after it is on. To much noise being made going in and out tends to bump anything close. I am not much on Gland lure straight unless breeding season is getting close.

[trappnman]

Im not sold on "test sticks" etc.

too many variables on way too small samples.

like catching 10 female coyotes in a row- doesn't mean much.......

[flathead40]

So do you think it's the stick, location or lure making them jumpy and why? I completely believe the coyotes are more spooky in some locations than others. That's why they'll spend more time in certain locations. (stall out) If I understand it right, that's the whole premise this theory is based on. At least that's my understanding of it. They are more willing to work a set in a stall out area because they are less spooky. Still I'd think, you will have a certain number of coyotes that are in the mindset to work a hole or stick no matter where they are at, at that moment.

[trappnman]

as was told to me-

yes, of course you will catch coyotes on non stall out locations. That as never an issue. What was the issue, was the % of coyotes that you had the opportunity to catch vs ones you catch.

Thats my Holy Grail.....to catch every coyote that is aware of my set. and no, I don't do that of course. But I think my % has gone up considerably- just the fact I can catch the same amount of coyotes, over the same time period, more consistently with 1/2 the traps, indicates that to me.

Because isn't that the only way to increase numbers? Better locations and a higher trap night %?

I belabor the point at times, because its such a given for me.

I mean- you can only refine your mechanics to a certain point- you've modified your sets to the point that anything more, is just puttering for no value other than S & Gs. Same with lures and baits- you know what works and no change in lures is going to give you much of an increase in %. There are no silver bullet lures. Even my long experiments with gophers- yes, the set with a gopher does get hit first it seemed in side by side tests....but are those extra coyotes? Perhaps a few.

So the only way to increase your trap night and overall %, is to take a higher number of those aware of your set.

It seems the words "stall out" and "the spot" draw angry critique, and I don't understand why.

Should we always refer to those locations as "places he spends more time than other places on his range"?

Or "spots he visits regular and poops"?

Or- my homegrown definition- "a place he feels COMFORTABLE>

Common sense is it not? A place where a coyote spends a lot of time, and a place where his chickenshit on alert all the time defenses are somewhat subdued?

To me that means more coyote opportunities, in a shorter time frame. Add in a good visual or a carcass to keep him milling-

Another term that is confusing is "travelways". But are all travelways the same. Look at it like this- you are going on a trip. Your travel route is the highway. But do you just boogie down that road from A to B? Or, are you going to have stops- to pee, to eat, to rest? On any travelway of any length, there are going to be areas where they stop, where they will spend a little time before moving on. It might be where a cow died 5 years ago, it might be a little water area, it might be some old badger diggings, it might be ?. Places where his defenses are somewhat relaxed.

Coyotes are the same- Not too often imo, and based on the results I know from the collaring program I was involved with, are they linear over any long distance. Our study results are similar to studies all over the country from east to west. It showed the average coyote, traveled from 7 to 9 miles a night. Over a relatively small area-

But of course that wasn't in motion all the time- it was found that more often than not, a coyote that was on the move have several destination points that he went to randomly, AND SPENT TIME AT throughout the night. Going to B to A to C to B to A etc.

Could one logically think his defenses, and MINDSET are different on the route vs the destination?

I can, and do.
-------------------------------------------

Now- as far as the stick thing. That damn stick would have spooked those coyotes with or without lure on them. I've proven that multiple times- its no mystery- place a stick or whatever Im guessing on a travel route they are familiar with, and it changes things. Why do you think some snaremen say set up your trail blockings far ahead of season opening?