weather fronts, etc & canines

[trappnman]

I always hear about the huge catches made (pick one) before, during and after storms.

and other things I read and hear about are how coyotes don't (do) move during wind, dry, cold, hot etc

I do think I know what limits movement- strong winds, heavy rain. Both conditions consistently produced less.

But I have to say, I don't know if I can come to any conclusions on what conditions make them move more.

I just can't think of any reason that would cause them to move more- now understand I'm talking in my type of area, if you have different areas and different conclusions I'd be glad to hear them- but the only things that cause animals to change behavior for weather, really comes down to food and/or shelter.

I do think a new crisp snow causes some roaming around- food related? but other than that....

we had tremendously dry weather for all but the last 10 days. All the while, I was wishing -fronts, fronts, fronts I need a change in weather-

so an experiment if you would. I trapped my last loop longer than I normally do- for fun mainly. On that loop, in the traps I've got out-26 traps at 12 locations, I caught 25+ coyotes this year. first week good catch rate, 2nd dropped substantially, this week even further.

so lets assume I've done 2 things: taken 25+ coyotes out of my pool, and educated the remaining locals. I'm doing nothing insofar as fresh sets or new traps- all same entire period.

last 4 days have been rain/wind/crap and I got 2.

so rain/wet/crap suppose to go through tonight, then end tomorrow then fri-sun sunny, colder, dry.

if weather plays a factor, I SHOULD get a bounce from wanderers, etc in those 3 days.

now lets look at dispersal. what fuels it most times? food, or sex.

with our high volume of readily available food & habitat, I really don't think we have any kind of true dispersal here. I think we have small ranges here, and that any pups etc that are moving on, simply go down the road to the first free spot. and that any dispersal as such, is a time staggered thing based on corn and other harvest (but primarily corn)

Lets get some discussion going- if you have any thoughts, please share them.

[braveheart]

I am with you on the dispersal. I don't think it really happen because of the large amount of food they can get here. Nothing like out west with limited amount of food.
I have better catches the day before fronts on coyote trapping.
I know wind does not matter here it has been a windy year here and my catch is way up. Got to be right on location better.
I know also the female in heat you will have a section full of coyotes down here as well.

[trappnman]

when you are talking wind Marty, how big a wind are you talking?

cause that 30-50 mph stuff hurts .

I do agree though that the reason the wind hurts is that it limits movement, and then yes, you are spot on- you need to be right on location (about like corn)


no one else has ever thought about what makes coyotes move?

[wally]

I've checked after three snowstorms this year and had a very noticeable amount of activity at my sets for coyotes...last night I had 7 sets visited out of 22. There is no doubt in my mind that they move more during fronts

[trappnman]

I concur on coyotes moving after a fresh snow- I think the same

but I always remember something JC told me "Don't think for a minute what you are seeing in snow, isn't happening on bare ground"

so I always ask....are coyotes moving more, or am I just seeing it?

[wally]

Dec 1, 2016 7:26:22 GMT -6 trappnman said:

I concur on coyotes moving after a fresh snow- I think the same

but I always remember something JC told me "Don't think for a minute what you are seeing in snow, isn't happening on bare ground"

so I always ask....are coyotes moving more, or am I just seeing it?

I totally agree other than the fact that my bait gets taken. One thing I can count on is that after a front, I have to rebait at least 4 sets. The same can't be said during calm sunny days

[trappnman]

if your bait is being taken, then you need to change the depth of your hole. The only way a coyote should be getting your bait, is by digging it out. Holes should be 10-12 inches deep. If you aren't using an auger, its be best way to go. Best style of auger for me is the single blade coon cuff style- I cut it down, ground the shank square and love it.

[trappnman]

I do think coyotes work sets different in snow, and that's because they cannot see the set in toto, and going at it blind tend to dig/root more trying to locate scent. I also think they use their nose more (since eyes are moot) when they can't see the source of the scent.

[wally]

Dec 1, 2016 7:37:28 GMT -6 trappnman said:

I do think coyotes work sets different in snow, and that's because they cannot see the set in toto, and going at it blind tend to dig/root more trying to locate scent. I also think they use their nose more (since eyes are moot) when they can't see the source of the scent.

They are getting dug out. The problem is that most of my misses are because it has snowed and I have no way to guide other than the directions of holes. Seems like they always step everywhere but the pan. But yea I do need my holes deeper. Anyone have any help on how to guide in 6" of amp for yotes?

[trappnman]

are you setting at a backing? a good backing at the minimum directs a coyote to the front of the set. you might try a stepdown type set- or use dirt to make a ridged guide along one edge of the set. I use clods of dirt (which can disappear in snow) here and there to direct the foot.

a good stepdown is to cut a rough triangle out of the sod- maybe 18" on the sides, 10 or so at base. make it 6-8 inches deep. bed the trap in a corner, put a clod at the other corner, make lure hole horizontal, just under the sod. This set eliminates guiding problems.

its for obvious reasons not a snow set- but really, what is?

[Deleted]

Every observation and opinion Steve addressed in the initial post is exactly my observations almost to the letter.  If I have a pretty stiff wind, say 25mph+ throughout the night, I'm empty and see no sign.  Sure, you may get a "bold" 1 or 2 to be out moving but the higher the windspeed in the woods puts all animals on edge and as we all understand to some degree, coyotes seem to be easily put on edge.  Any that have read my posts over the years know that I'm a "smell" guy and not a "visual" guy when it comes to types of sets so I understand the lack of visuals could come into play during the higher winds.

Speaking of not depending on visuals to attract and catch coyotes, I don't change set type when I get snow up to 3"-4".  I do depend on guiding with bare ground and I still do with snow.  I make sure that if I'm in for snow, I increase the height of my guiding!!  You don't have to have a stick or some other form of guiding sticking up out of the snow, all you need, or want is something to make a distinguishable bump in the snow cover.

Speaking of backing with snow.  If it's understood how a coyote approaches a set completely covered in snow by only scent, it's quickly observed that a 2nd trap on the backside of the backing will almost always catch the 1st coyote that approaches the set looking for the scent.  I normally only use one trap with my walk-thrus BUT not in shallow snow cover, then I add a 2nd as described.

[trappnman]

I tend to agree, if in snow they really seem to want to work from the back.

[Deleted]

I'm not so sure they know it's the back.  I feel snow cover over scent would act as a defuser of the scent and we know, coyotes want to put their nose on a specific point.  With bare ground they can focus on a mouse hole or the edge of a tuft of grass, not so with a few inches of snow I feel.  They see the hump of the backing and they certainly smell the scents coming from its vicinity.  They sort of curl around the set tight to the backing on the up-wind side, I think trying to pinpoint the source.  If you've set your trap 8"-9" say from the backing, that's just about the exact distance they'll be from the backing on the backside as well as they "curl around" the backing seemingly zeroing in on the scent location.  There'll be an outside jaw guide with the trap set on the back side just as there is with the front trap.  

A single goldenrod stem is enough depending on what else is sticking up in the near vicinity.  With a bare ground walk-thru I'd never use a guide that vertical but it's a natural with snow cover with location conditions I've described.  Humps in the snow or stuble weeds sticking up through the snow, guiding is guiding and serves the purpose if done correctly with the conditions present to have a paw on the pan BEFORE the paw digs at the scent!  If a person can guide on bare ground, they need to readdress the principle of guiding and when that lightbuld comes on, snow will cease to be a problem.  In my opinion that is, with walk-thru sets.

It's all a mute point once I get over 4" of snow though, then it's Katie bar the door because that's the end of using scents and walk-thrus for the year!!

[braveheart]

The big winds like we had 30 plus slows things down but we have almost every day 10 -15 they just keep piling in.
I make almost all blended flat sets any more with a bone or a grab stick with 2 lures and urine and it is game on.I smear bait just like a lure.

[trappnman]

interesting- you went all to flat sets.

years ago I was almost entirely 100% flats sets, and I liked them.

but have reversed to all hole sets- I've gone over to the visual side of the fence it seems.

-----------------

I think a lot of my snow problems, is using sets not designed for true snow conditions. I was under the impression, that a hole, or partial hole, just visible, was like a magnet. but my snow adventures 2 years ago, showed me that, with my setting methods/set construction- that about the worse look I could have, was that.

yes, I caught coyotes but had too much, what appeared to be coyotes sitting back, and pondering over that hole. 4-5 feet away type stuff. for me, my best success was to get all the snow off an extended pattern, making it mixed and mottled, with the approach guides etc in play.


Its easy to see what the coyotes we missed did (in snow) but it would sure be interesting to see what the ones we catch did. I have no doubt what Seldom says occurs- probably occurs to some degree or the other on bare ground as well- just more so when covered in snow.

In my flat set period, I got enamored with making my flat sets invisible. By this point I was doing well with flat sets and was working towards basically blind sets with hidden scent- many times I couldn't even tell you where exactly the set was until I caught something- or walked around to snap it off.

and I started getting a lot of digging at my sets.

I mentioned this to Wiley, and he commented that now, I was providing NO clue as to where the scent was (scent hole with rock over it, etc), so the coyotes were puttering around trying to locate the scents, rather than seeing the source. Made sense to me.

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what about full moon?

[braveheart]

I had slow response 2 years ago in the full moon and snow. But this year early full moon had no bearing on my catch ground was bear.With snow on the ground I always head for blow out area of no snow and start a draw station. This year I only used 2 lures and had great response I still to this day am giving to them with those 2 lures and or bait smear and I still have yotes working my sets so no reason to change yet.

[flathead40]

So then, what makes coyotes move? Took wife and grandaughter out xmas tree hunting on a farm I trap. Fresh snow last night. No tracks. Nothing. So will the cold front push them around, or do the fronts really have nothing to do with coyote trapping?
Has anybody ever actually kept track?

[flathead40]

Seldom, I get that coyotes are there own critter. 100%. I get that my one example is not everywhere. lol
My question would be, Do weather fronts make them move? Is it the snow fall, or the cold temps that are usually after big storm? If it's hunger, not the front that's the major deciding factor, wouldn't the cold front after big snow be better trapping?
Also, if it's hunger that makes them move in the winter(and I agree) why go away from scent type sets?

[bblwi]

I don't trap canines much so this may not be appropriate for this discussion, but I do see big increases in movement of the main species I trap, rats, coons and mink when there are fronts moving through. I believe it is the barometric pressure that creates the movement. We have those reports all summer for fish activity and I feel that is similar for our other wildlife as well. The animals have evolved to respond to the changes in pressure and respond by increasing movement whether that be hunting, moving to safer habitat etc. An animal does not know if it is going to snow 1 inch or 12 inches but it can sense pressure change. An animal does not know if the wind will be 5 mph or 35 mph but when the pressure changes they respond. Wild animals also have adrenal glands the same as we do and they secrete the same hormones we do and have also evolved to deal with those sensors that allow them the best chance for staying safe and alive. Where we can build better homes, or toss more logs on the fire or stockpile more food.
For me the issue is how far in advance of a barometric pressure change do the animals start responding and how much does it take to do the triggering. To me it seems it takes less of an event earlier in the fall to create the big movements than it does later, so that means to me that first experiences have some impact and that could be triggered by photoperiod responses as well as barometric as there are certainly different levels of hormones and types circulating in early November then there is in late December or early February.

Bryce

[lumberjack]

The part about getting the bait- it was said to dig hole deeper, cant hurt, But what about a smaller hole they really have to work?. Like a wallowed out stake hole (deep)?