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Post by trappnman on Sept 6, 2016 6:36:47 GMT -6
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Post by trappnman on Sept 7, 2016 6:32:53 GMT -6
a real issue- and no comment?
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Post by redsnow on Sept 7, 2016 10:32:37 GMT -6
Never heard about it.
Makes me wonder why the tribe let them cut a swath 2 miles long before they stopped the works. That didn't happen overnight.
I can't imagine that someone didn't "inspect" the area beforehand to make sure there weren't artifacts or graves in the area.
I'll need to read the story again, when I get a chance, but any kind of operation like that is mapped out, weeks, months if not years in advance.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 7, 2016 11:11:30 GMT -6
actually it did. not the planning- but that the sites were found, and immediately the went to those pinpointed areas. yes, not getting attention it needs-
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Post by musher on Sept 7, 2016 14:12:50 GMT -6
Things like that upset me.
If it was a soccer field in Whiteville, it would get a lot more press coverage. The companies would not be as brazen, either.
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Post by redsnow on Sept 7, 2016 15:57:27 GMT -6
Someone screwed up big time on that job!
Don't understand the process that took place. But I can take you back on the mountain tonight and show you a man's headstone, not counting my brother, I'll bet there isn't 1 person that could find it, in daylight. Not in a day's time anyway.
I know of small family burial plots, back in the middle of nowhere. But if this area was mapped out and studied, I agree, somebody screwed up!
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 7, 2016 17:30:04 GMT -6
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Post by redsnow on Sept 7, 2016 17:58:56 GMT -6
Hmmm, now I understand. On private land.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 7, 2016 18:27:07 GMT -6
Yes Redsnow, I lived not to far from standing rock and right next to the cheyanne river reservation for a good number of years, a company would have to be total morons to even think about starting to do any kind of work on reservation ground without full approval and paperwork in hand, otherwise the lawsuit would be very fast and extensive.
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Post by musher on Sept 8, 2016 6:09:11 GMT -6
Regardless. Just because the land is private doesn't mean you can do anything you want with it. That's why we don't have pig farms in suburbia.
It reminds me of a quote; "If you aren't, at least, a little ashamed of your country's history, you don't know your country's history." True for ALL countries.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 8, 2016 6:54:31 GMT -6
that's a good quote Musher
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Post by redsnow on Sept 8, 2016 12:51:48 GMT -6
I agree with Musher's quote, very true.
But, there are 2 ways of looking at things.
I can take you to places up and down this valley and find Indian arrowheads, now are we going to declare all of those areas "sacred hunting grounds"? Off limits to construction, or being disturbed in any way? No farming or timber cutting allowed? Are we going to fence off those areas? Forever to be untouched by humans again?
Our Earth has been here a long long time!
But I'm thinking about one farm, I've found arrowheads on the place, I guess it's been in their family for 4 generations now. Their family bought that property, have paid taxes on it since taxes began, and now someone is going to tell them that it's off limits? That they can't even utilize their own property? I can't agree to that.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 8, 2016 15:53:48 GMT -6
Musher you do understand this was on private ground and these people where trespassing you do know that correct? I am all for protecting burial grounds of anyone's, you do that through a court order , not knocking down fences and comming onto private property without no legal means.
If the court issues a stop to digging until such are looked at great, if they continue to dig then the court will hold them liable, this is an issue of where people trespassed without cause.
Would be like me planting a garden and digging and some people telling me to stop in my property , without a court order enacting such I do not have to stop if I know no different.
Burial grounds have rights but so do private property rights.in maters such as this, the people who came into private property where hostile at the beginning by trespassing.
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Post by musher on Sept 11, 2016 6:37:01 GMT -6
I do understand about the private property. However, the aquifer belongs to all. And if there is a court order after the burial ground is removed, what is the point. It's similar to the judge saying the trees cannot be cut down after they are cut down. Sure there is a fine but the companies make more cash than the fine and they chalk it up to the cost of doing business.
Yes, the protesters were hostile. But if they would have been part of the Mohawk Nation, things might have been very different.
The dog handlers were a joke. So was the security. It was a disaster waiting to happen and luckily things did not turn out too badly.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 11, 2016 9:15:36 GMT -6
AGREED
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 11, 2016 16:03:13 GMT -6
if your going to use that as a basis for shutting down a pipeline then one will never go thru either of the Dakotas, as where I used to live we got our water off the same line as the cheyanne Sioux tribe , we where the end run of such water line going west.
I would think that would have been evaluated by thr army Corp longer before they started to do any work. Correct?
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Post by musher on Sept 12, 2016 18:37:28 GMT -6
I don't know if you have any contact with Natives. I can't go in town without seeing Natives. I've had them as neighbours, seen them as kids and now see them as adults.
This whole concept of private land and owning land is foreign to them. How can you own something when it will outlast you? You don't own the land. The land owns you. They also believe that all the land is theirs; but they are willing to share .... for a price.
Same with the concept of time. "Injun Time" is a real thing. Deadlines aren't a problem. So there is no rush to make a pipeline.
In my part of the world you can get 200 guys to block a road and the police will remove them in a hurry. If one native sits in a lawn chair on the highway, she will stop all traffic. No one is going to remove her.
The Oka crisis taught us a lot. Our Natives are serious about their rights and the issues they believe in. They will also take the necessary steps to be heard. Those security people would have been lucky to get off with a good beating. I think the dogs would have been toast.
If what I have read about the Army Corps of Engineers is accurate, I wouldn't trust them very much. They straightened every bit of flowing water and destroyed lots of habitat. It is also the reason why many people are getting flooded out.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 12, 2016 19:05:16 GMT -6
If what I have read about the Army Corps of Engineers is accurate, I wouldn't trust them very much. They straightened every bit of flowing water and destroyed lots of habitat. It is also the reason why many people are getting flooded out.
I've said that for years Brian.
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Post by bblwi on Sept 12, 2016 21:19:48 GMT -6
How many Christian grave yards scattered all over our nation are we digging up or mining, or building roads on today? Sure it is not exactly the same but to state that a Native American burial site does not warrant the same respect as a European Christian grave site shows some of our latent and not so latent bigotry regarding race, creed, color etc. The Native American Communities have not been as proactive as we have in designating thousands of buildings as historical sites and then you can't do anything with them or many times around them and many of these are not even a couple generations old let alone 100s of years.
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 13, 2016 5:47:28 GMT -6
No actually the river is better off using the dam system on the missouri to be factual. If not fo the dams recreation would be far less and you want to talk about flooding? Consider what would happen in areas without the dams put in place on the Missouri.
The corps and congress are to blame for the flooding a few years back, yes but it was lack of foresight that caused much of what took place along the Missouri River. Flows should have been open long before they did, but due to congressional red tape the drop had to follow the plan to be legal.
Go north of Yankton and walk the Missouri River, you can albout walk across the entire thing durring normal years, that is what the Missouri would be without dams in many,many areas. You talk about water needs? Without the dams there would be a lot less water to be treated for drinking than there is today that is a fact.
Also the fisheries along the Missouri would not be what they are either. ND and SD takes in big money from walleye fishing due to the dams and clear water of the upper portion of the Missouri. Far different water shed up north compaired to down here in the KC area no doubt.
The issue remains the northern shed of the Missouri is maintained for recreation the lower was at one point used for barges which does not take place much any more along it. Down this way much dredging is done in many areas because of the difference practices of River use.
Yes musher I lived 2 miles off a large Indian reservation for good period of years . My wife taught on the Indian reservation as well.
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