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Post by trappnman on Aug 21, 2014 11:02:18 GMT -6
and you have done nothing to change my mind- but the point being not that I wish to change anyones mind, only that I find it mind boggling that you wish to impose your values on me
my experience with fish, is exactly what I want it to be- again, why is that so hard for you to understand?
you don't know ME well enough, to make assumptions
my wants and needs are narrower than yours? my goodnesss what a wide brush you paint with-
seems to me, all the defense is on your side- you state CA food and everything to do with CA, is better than everyones elses combined experiences when we point out not so- you turn it back to what YOU desire, or find important
are your ideals and wants so nebulus, that you need to have everyone agree that unless they are you, and live exactly as you do, their life is lacking?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 21, 2014 17:42:31 GMT -6
FWS This thread has about played itself out for me . If I feel what I can catch from rivers, lakes etc Inland is great to eat then what is that to you? You feel the ocean fish are much better etx,etc. great keep fishing them the point is I do not need to eat them, fish them etc. Freedom of choices abound Americans all over every state, customs in each state on food and many other topics. Each area has different things even if ever so slightly different. I have noticed customs from the ranching community in NW SD are different than that here in Missouri. Each to there own you put a lot of stock in the ocean and what it has for you, many others do not put hardly any stock into reaping from the ocean for meals. It really is simple wants and needs change across the US when it comes to food and is based where one is living or has grown up. Where I grew up and in my family Canadian bacon and sauerkraut pizza was the norm for pizza ,other places people look at me like I am crazy It is ok as people have different likes and taste for things, so because many choose not to search out the ocean fish varieties and what they can offer means very little in the real world to those who have no interest in doing such. Life will go on the same if many choose not to eat things or choose to do so. Many people have other interest in their lives than searching out Leopard shark to eat and other things YOU find totally amazing. My amazing is well amazing to ME Choices and opinions is all....... Keep promoting the sea you have a vested interest in such, no different than the American sheep ranchers promoting eating American lamb. You promote which you are invested in life.
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Post by FWS on Aug 21, 2014 19:06:05 GMT -6
Right, a narrow view in your own words............... You painted yourself into that corner with your own paintbrush. Actually you never really have been able to prove that point. And in fact have proved the opposite, a lot of CA is in MN and MO. Reason why ? People like it. Ya' know what I've said about that ? That there are better eating fish out there and they come from saltwater. That is not an opinion I am alone in holding BTW. Your claim was that you didn't need the oceans is untrue based on the evidence, just the fact that your lakes and rivers are stocked by fish raised in hatcheries that MUST use protein rich feeds derived from marine sources should tell you that. A reasonable response to that is, "Cool, glad we have those resources available to support our fisheries". And we looked at your claim that Midwesterners didn't want seafoods, and we found that to be untrue. It was all over, at every fish fry and on restaurant menus. This from the guy who's life is centered around coyotes. And if you were intellectually honest in describing my 'searching' youd recognize it is much more diverse than just the one species you mention.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 22, 2014 4:39:27 GMT -6
FWS didn't want who said that? I said and it is factual that seafood is down the list for protein sources for many Americans one can look at the tonnage consumed and see seafood is behind the big 3 and always will be for easy enough reasons, cost, ease of access and what people grow up on. The leopard shark was just one example You do relies that Missouri was a state before California , So there is Missouri in California
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Post by trappnman on Aug 22, 2014 8:59:18 GMT -6
isn't the point more who is able to sit as judge, as to what are choices of life?
I can list countless things- that I have experience with, that you have never experienced, nor in many cases even know about.
does that lessen your choices? according to you, it should.
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Post by FWS on Aug 22, 2014 11:22:51 GMT -6
Did I say it was going to take over ? Nope, only that people do want it and it is obviously consumed in the Midwest, and in greater quantities than your local freshwater fish, which are really not available in any quantity to the public as a whole.
Just one example of a marine species I catch and eat, and have sold. Just one of many.........................
Sure, people from all over have relocated to CA. And they have assimilated, eaten the foods and the popularity of those foods have gone back to MO (and everywhere else), just as much of the fresh produce and many other products produced in CA have. Kinda hard to deny that.
Aren't you the one doing the real judging here ?
As can I with you..................
And for the subject matter we're discussing here isn't it obvious that your base of knowledge on a pretty significant resource is lacking ? You say you don't give a rats arse about it, and I'll tell you that it is all interconnected, be it the natural world, economically, culturally, politically................
What makes for better discussion and provides better opportunities to learn and be aware, the way I approach it or the way you fellas do ?
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Post by trappnman on Aug 23, 2014 7:21:34 GMT -6
Aren't you the one doing the real judging here ?
am I? seems to me, as in every post I've made, I've stated that every state has possiblilities that others do not, and that we all prefer what we are familiar with.
if that's judging, I pray that if I ever go before a judge, hes that judgmental
And for the subject matter we're discussing here isn't it obvious that your base of knowledge on a pretty significant resource is lacking ? You say you don't give a rats arse about it, and I'll tell you that it is all interconnected, be it the natural world, economically, culturally, politically................
not giving a rats ass about something, doesn't change whether its true or not
and my point, was I could give a rats arse about living by an ocean, or fishing in an ocean, or anything else to do with an ocean
and I stand by that-
all your posts, have been how CA is so great- and to me, its just another state I have no interest in
I eat ZERO CA fruits, vegetables, meat, fish
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 23, 2014 13:32:01 GMT -6
FWS look at the top 10 seafoods and 3 of them are fresh water fish catfish,swai and tilapia add them up and the lbs consumed each year is close to equal to tuna consumed in the US. That isn't counting all of the walleye, crappie,bluegills and yellow perch harvested by recreational means that his many tables for a food source. walleye fishing is very popular in the Midwest and one of the top species fished for and not really a trophy fish but most caught for table fare, hence the reason most places have slot limits and lower harvest on them due to the pressure applied on them for eating even at a recreational level. Now rivers like the Mississippi has a lot of natural reproduction so very little stocking is ever done either with saugers, yet because of their popularity as table fair rules and regs put into place as to not over harvest them.
Many get caught taking many times their legal limit because they are fish that people love to eat.
If you like to eat them or not the facts are millions are harvested annually for table fare and family fish fry's. Same can be said of catfish plus the commercial farming of such as well.
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Post by FWS on Aug 24, 2014 1:16:18 GMT -6
Sure. That's not really true, certainly not for 'all' since many prefer new experiences to what they're familiar with. Sure, and you're welcome to stand by that, nobody has threatened to snatch you, throw you hooded in the back of a black van and drive you to the coast to force you to go fishing. Just don't try to convince me that your aquatic resources are anything even close to that of the oceans. I don't tell you that your area lacks the habitat, species diversity, or biomass to be insulting, it's just a factual statement. That's just your interpretation, and it's a defensive one. You could not eat CA produced fish or meats, but to claim you don't eat CA produced fruits or vegetables is something I ain't buying. Most of the processed tomato products produced in the US, 96%, are from CA. So no ketchup, BBQ sauce, pasta sauces, canned tomatoes of all varieties, tomato powders used in processed foods, the tomato based sauce on your pizza, and so on. How bout lemons ? Or oranges, tangerines, avocados, table grapes, broccoli, cauliflower, carrots, cabbage, onions, garlic, olives, plums, prunes, raisins, bell and chili peppers, melons of all varieties, celery, artichokes, asparagus, nectarines, kiwi fruit, persimmons, squash, apricots, strawberries, and the list can go on and on. With CA either being the top producer or near the top of what's listed here. Know what ? What's familiar to you just might be produced in CA.
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Post by FWS on Aug 24, 2014 1:55:03 GMT -6
Tilapia and swai (which is Vietnamese iridescent catfish) are pretty much just farmed trash fish, they're cheap and are heavily marketed but as for quality, not so good. Most tilapia are farmed in China, 'swai' in Vietnam. Both are very poor substitutes for REAL fish, but they can be produced in great quantities cheap. If they're on the menu of a restaurant I get up and walk out.
Which doesn't add up to much really, just looking at walleye in MN for an example,
From the MN DNR website,
Each year, anglers in Minnesota keep roughly 3.5 million walleyes totaling 4 million pounds.
The landings of just North Pacific cod in U.S. waters was 700 million pounds....................
The species you list are almost entirely aport take only, what commercial take is left, mostly for catfish is getting squeezed out due to pressure from the sporties. There really is no cultuing of walleye, yellow perch, or bluegill for the food market, just fingerlings to stock for sport fishing.
The only commercial fisheries for walleye are in a few lakes in Canada, which are also stocked to enhance the fishery.
Hence the reason we see so much cod, pollock, haddock, halibut, and salmon offered at all those fish fry's and restaurants in the Midwest.
I'm not ragging on your fisheries, just pointing out they are what they are and you can't compare them to marine fisheries.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 24, 2014 7:12:08 GMT -6
You may walk out but the fact remains these 3 species are consumed at higher rates than most of which you list as being awsome table fair. People are buying them in large enough quantity to make all 3 in the top 10 consumed seafoods, on their own they are behind shrimp and tuna in a can, but add the 3 together and they are right there with tuna in my can in the US per lb consumption. Again the Mississippi river has a lot of natural reproduction of walleye and saugers in it, the issue being sport fishermen would never allow a commercial harvest of these two species as they are the most important for sports fishing and the state DNR's would be in a world of hurt if they allowed such. Very little salmon at Midwest fish fry's . Cod big and plentiful for sure,but if I could have walleye fillets or cod? Give me the walleye please.............
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Post by trappnman on Aug 24, 2014 8:18:16 GMT -6
How bout lemons ? Or oranges, tangerines, avocados, table grapes, broccoli, cauliflower, carrots, cabbage, onions, garlic, olives, plums, prunes, raisins, bell and chili peppers, melons of all varieties, celery, artichokes, asparagus, nectarines, kiwi fruit, persimmons, squash, apricots, strawberries, and the list can go on and on. With CA either being the top producer or near the top of what's listed here.
florida oranges
cabbage and carrots out of my garden
watermelon from the Sand Praire- some of the best melons in world, 10 miles from me
squash from my garden
strawberries from my garden
the rest- I don't like, and don't eat
next?
Just don't try to convince me that your aquatic resources are anything even close to that of the oceans
can't recall doing that- but do recall stating I have what fills MY needs
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lets see- I respond to you- and I'm, being defensive. Yet, you respond to me, and you are not?
bahahahahahaha
and let us not forget how this, and similar debate started- with you stating no other state equals CA in...well, everything according to you.
I (we) disagree-
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Post by FWS on Aug 24, 2014 9:07:06 GMT -6
You have a short growing season, what do you do for the rest of the year. Cuz' what you produce isn't lasting all year. Sorry pal, I ain't buying into it. I recall that, and I recall pointing out where you were wrong, as with aquaculture. And if I said that about CA melons you'd get your panties all knotted up. See the thing is that I hear that all the time from you and others. Remember when we were discussing the term 'narrow'...................... That is and always has been hyperbole at best, with a gross distortion more likely, and yes, it has been defensive on your parts. Kinda like with waterfowling, if you actually like to hunt ducks and geese, CA does have better opportunities than MN, and SD, and MO, much longer seasons, higher bag limits, more species available, the weather is more conducive, lots of public hunting, and so on. That's not subjective, it's just a factual observation of how it is and the harvest levels bear that out. Must be a crime to recognize that Just like it's a crime to want year round, highly diverse fishing opportunities, both sport and commercial. Not really, you're just pleased with the opportunities you have, and I'm happy for you. But for me it would be lacking. Oh, I've not forgotten, particularly not all the parts where you got confused about geography and the resources we were discussing, since with quite a bit of it we were never discussing CA, you just didn't know any better to recognize that.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 24, 2014 9:32:31 GMT -6
FWS let's look at your goose season Oct 26/ Jan 26 Late season Feb 22/March 10
South Dakota Goose season August 16/31 15 geese per day.
Reg season unit one Sept 1/ December 16th Daily take in sept is 15 geese possession is 3 x the daily bag after Sept 8 geese per day for remainder of regular season.
Light goose season is sept 27/ Dec 21 daily take 20 geese possession unlimited
Late season light geese Feb 15 the to May 4 no daily take or possession limits .
So where do you get more hunting opportunity in California? I looked at your regs you have nothing past March 10 for a season and where do you have unlimited take and possession limit. I couldn't find that? You get more hunting days in SD just the facts.
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Post by FWS on Aug 24, 2014 9:40:23 GMT -6
And McDonalds own customers say the food sucks but they still go there because it's cheap and available. Obviously not enough for them to be viable for any more than a highly limited sport harvest. What was that I said about biomass, species diversity, etc., that got you guys all upset. Oh yeah, there it is. But increasing given the documentary evidence provided by those who actually provide those fish fry's in the Midwest, and at the restaurants, even in places like Lake City, MN by golly. Ya' know, funny thing is that there are dozens and dozens of species we take in the Atlantic, the Pacific, the Caribbean, and the Gulf of Mexico that are better eating than either cod or walleye. But you'll never know that because you're opposed to discovering that. All these species caught by small artisanal commercial fishermen living in little coastal communities all around the oceans I listed above. Strangely enough I do think you'd enjoy hanging out with them a lot more than you would spending time at the state owned ChiCom tilapia operations. But, maybe not.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 24, 2014 9:40:24 GMT -6
For ducks in SD one can hunt from Sept 17 to January 15th by moving around the state and take 6 ducks per day and in sept you get a Bonus of 2 blue winged teal,in some areas in Sept. Plus one can shoot 5 mergansers and 15 coots why one would want them who knows So tell me how your season are much longer? Pit blinds over the Missouri River offer fantastic late season goose hunting and with an August control season and being able to take 15 Canadian geese daily and have 45'in possession how is your season above and beyond that of SD?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 24, 2014 9:43:23 GMT -6
FWS I have been to fish fry's and very few offer salmon as an option to consume sorry....... The cost of the fish fry and the cost of salmon do not compute into making a profit for the fund raising organization. Sure some offer such but not e majority by any means, I have been to many church fish fry's and other orgs trying to raise money, the lions club puts on a nice one annually no salmon ever present cost of salmon and the number who would take it over other fish offered? Low for the most part in the Midwest. catfish is very popular as well as cod. Don't really much care about diversity of the ocean fish YOU consume I care about catching or obtaining fresh walleye fillets to either broil or deep fry
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Post by FWS on Aug 24, 2014 9:50:35 GMT -6
You mean those snow geese and Canada geese you don't want to eat ? Versus the specklebellies and Aleutians we do want to eat............. And a much shorter duck season with fewer species and a lower bag limit ? SD does get to hunt sandhill cranes and they are great eating too, but overall you'll get more shooting for a greater variety out here. For a species you don't want..................... And you're still in SD freezing your ass off, rather than just hopping on a boat and going fishing.
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Post by FWS on Aug 24, 2014 10:03:09 GMT -6
But they are offering salmon, and that'll increase as people want healthy options.
Sure it would. Wild caught Alaska salmon can be bought pretty cheap. Especially pinks and chums, both of which are really quire tasty breaded and fried since they're much leaner than chinook, coho, sockeye, or farm raised Atlantic salmon.
You're just not familiar enough with it to know any better.
In all that I looked at cod was #1 by a long shot.
Or catch and have sold.
Be nice to have more diversity of species to catch though huh ? Including species like crabs and other shellfish.
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Post by FWS on Aug 24, 2014 10:55:00 GMT -6
So what's with the big, hysterical opposition to fishing the oceans or eating the species produced from them ?
There are a lot of really great opportunities that would provide you with spectacular outdoor experiences, I've fished a lot of freshwater, but by comparison the experiences and yield of edible species on the oceans are far greater.
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