Another throwaway

[bogio]

Sometimes you got to cut your losses.



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[trappnman]

what % of rubs/mange/breakdown are you getting this time of year?

[bogio]

I truly mean no disrespect nor do I wish to come off as a smart asss but I don't care about those numbers.

I like to trap coyotes, period.

As everything in this area was bad, I will go elsewhere as Marty has advocated.

[trappnman]

didn't mean to put you on the spot- simply curious as to what % were bad, as per my thread about % of fur being bad on coyotes in certain areas.

[RdFx]

Here in WI its about 20 % mange. Saw one in driveway while i was going to town. He or she wouldnt come out of driveway till i drove up road aways and then came out and trotted off down the blacktop road. Sorry looking mangy yote, probably didnt want to walk in the deep snow.

[trappnman]

some areas it seems have mange in that 10-20%+ range more years than not.

yet, here, in 30some years, I've had it rarely- and always wonder WHY has this area been spared? I've gotten a few (3-4 in past 10 years) that had actual mange- no one this year, 1 last year, none the year before and then my memory fails me- but why?

any studies on mange out there that would address this question?

[curdog]

it seems to me that as far as mange goes I see it in new locations but once the population is thinned out for a few seasons it goes away...thats what I have noticed on the farms I trap...as far as fur breakdown once the snow is here I see about 50 % junk fur on coyotes...my theory on that is coyotes laying in snow an melting in causing fur loss...

[trappnman]

I do think cold has something to do with it- but what throws a wrench in that for me, is the high % of mange the UP gets. Back when Edge was around, he said something like 30% of his coyotes had mange. and RdFx is far north of me.

[trappnman]

link to study at Wind cave-

pubstorage.sdstate.edu/wfs/487-W.pdf

some highlights

Pence et al. (1983) suggested
that expansion of a mange epizootic may be related to canid
population densities across a geographic area and ultimately
with minimum threshold density necessary for transmission.


Gier et al. (1978) and Todd et al. (1981) surmised that the
onset of a mange epizootic may be associated with increased
coyote and reduced prey abundance. However, prey
abundance seemed high throughout the study. Coyote
density indices in WCNP were high through 2003 during
the onset of the mange epizootic. However, to our
knowledge, a previous mange epizootic has not been
reported for the coyote population at WCNP. Thus, coyotes
likely were not immune to the disease. Nevertheless, by
2004, 20% of those coyotes initially showing evidence of
mange had recovered from the disease.

the last sentence above- anyone remember the heated debates when Wiley and bob went at it, bob claiming no coyote ever had recovered from mange?
from this study, as 1080 hinted at- densities seem to be key- and I take away from it that unless a minimum density is present, the disease doesn't become epidemic.

can I conclude from that- that those areas with high %s of mange, are also always high density areas?

[bogio]

Another from the same area.


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While this one probably would not have survived the winter, I believe the one above stood a good chance at this late stage of the winter games. By taking her out, I maybe realized no monetary return for my immediate efforts but possibly prevented her from infecting other random adults or even from raising a litter, all of whom would have been infected, providing multiple ground zero carriers for the disease. Looks like good management to me.

[coloradocat]

Hey, Dr. Andelt sold Colorado trappers out on a sample size of 22 snared coyotes,lol.

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman mange spreads quicker with more coyotes no doubts in that. Plus remember in many areas with higher mange 50-60 of sample some of these coyotesass it on to their pups and most die as well. The Indian reservation was really bad for a few years and yes even in NW SD winters some milder than avg that they could and would survive on road kills and living in haystacks, cold nights they would die due to the shear temps -20 or so. ranchers would find them dead when pulling bales from these stacks, I hand one rancher that had a mangy coyote walk right into his shed where he stored hay for a couple horses and not have the energy to get up and move. The rancher did that one a favor with the 22.

In protected areas where I would put winter bait stations it seemed I would always snare the carrion dependant first and foremost so most of the early crop was a lot of mangy coyotes. Long toe nailed ugly looking suckers.

[thorsmightyhammer]

I'm north of all ya and although it can get cold where Steve lives it isn't like here in terms of days below zero and days below -20.

Its amazing what those mangy dogs can endure. Not so much mange here this year. Probably in that 10 15 percent range. And that's been typical for as long as I can remember. We had some gears where it was in that 40 maybe even a bit more but then the densities were at the highest I have seen here.

As far as rubs the coyotes the guys are shooting are not bad. On average probably worth more than a 20th of October coyote.

[trappnman]

sold 20 oct coyotes for a $30 average in early nov- so $30 on rubbed coyotes this time of year is good indeed......

[trappincoyotes39]

Even is SD a guy still had to weight out cost versus benefit. If your running 120 traps for coyotes and on a 3 day check, ditch tossing 50-60 percent is not going to leave one much in profit if that is your angle. It cost the same to catch a mangy coyotes as it does nice white belly ones. So if one is in it for the money I wouldn't trap the reservation or areas that had above 40 percent mange unless one just is put to have fun and kill a pile of coyotes. The Cheyenne reservation has very high coyote numbers and a license can be had for 85.00 and a guy can have a fun time trapping them, bobcats though have been changed this year NO non member harvest allowed. But for 85.00 you can trap every other critter you like. Yet they didn't sell a lot of non tribal tags because the mange was so bad. I worked in ziebach county a lot on private ground and through a co op with the reservation and the coyote numbers where crazy high! Also some great calling to be had as well.

[thorsmightyhammer]

They'll average 30 this on yotes taken this time of year if the market holds.

[trappnman]

they are lucky- you wouldn't average a 1/3 of that here this time of year- and I know guys that sent those rubbed from January/Feb to NAFA thinking that they would get more than the $8-10 local for broke down yotes- sadly, they did not. either the buyers willing to pay #30 for badly rubbed yotes knows something no one else knows- or those coyotes aren't rubbed enough to matter.

[thorsmightyhammer]

The coyotes aren't "badly" rubbed yet that I have seen shot the last couple weeks.

I've sold coyotes shot this time of year to Weibke's and I'd venture to guess Tom knows a thing or two about coyotes.

One thing about it though, I think our coyotes are quite a bit better than southern MN types.

Not trying to start an argument just stating my opinion. Couple guys I know who had late October early November coyotes on the February sale last year did in the mid 60's low 70's.

[trappnman]

The coyotes aren't "badly" rubbed yet that I have seen shot the last couple weeks.


that's why apples are apples and why I asked how the rubs were in particular areas- not whether your coyotes now were worth more than my oct coyotes,

[MRussell]

I have seen several with BAD cases of mange. Here in So. IL the winters usually don't get too bad;not so this year. It will be tough for the mangy ones to make it through this winter.....not saying the can't. Just saying the odds are stacked against them here this winter.