Legs

[thorsmightyhammer]

Well what is it.

You say you like to trap coyotes because that is what you like to do.

I say I just love to trap, don't care what it is. I hold no animal in special regards. So if I am gonna do it I am going to make as much as I can. Because profit is a motivator for me doesn't make me good, doesn't make me bad. It just is. I love to trap as much or more than anyone.

Now the point of my whole thread is that I am a little surprised of the durability of the rat market and quite frankly this sale is the highest its been in my lifetime. On a four year bull market that's pretty good.

And if you think this thread was about you, you'd better recheck. If you think I give you a little guff about trapping rats, ask hammer or even blakely how much crap I give them for chasing coon around in the fall and winter.

I should keep my dam mouth shut because the less guys that trap rats in the winter means that much more for me. The less guys that trap them in the fall means that much more left for me.

The reason why I gave Gibb a little guff because I find it humorous when guys say they are going to trap rats this coming fall when we have been in a bull market for rats for 4 years. How long are they going to wait. But I also say it in jest to Jim because he maybe doesn't have access to a bunch of rats. I don't know what Ontario is like. The areas I've seen aren't conducive to rats but Ontario is beyond huge.

Muskrat said earlier last fall about the possibility of rats going to 20 bucks.

Well we didn't average that, but I got 19.50 for several. If I would have had my last batch of rats on this sale I would have got 19.50 for hundreds.

It kind of amazes me.

[bblwi]

Wanting to live to the maximum doesn't offer much encouragement for the millions that take on careers that don't create that much revenue. Many of the persons I learned the most from, respect the most and I learned the most from were not high income earners or maximizing their lifestyles. Bills got paid, kids got educated, weddings got paid for etc. etc. but there were different expectations and the venues were not of the caliber than some would care for.

Bryce

[thorsmightyhammer]

IMHO Bryce, you are rambling on.

Maybe I am to. Who knows.

What drives you in the trap line?

Me? Its flat out how much can I catch in what time I allot and I chose to trap rats right now because they are profitable and plentiful and I flat out love to trap. And you know why else, they are easy and I am lazy to a point. What would you rather put up? 4 rats or a coyote? 50 rats a day or 20 beaver? 50 rats a day or twenty coon?

I am gonna skin it all put it all up so it may as well be rats. When I am in trapping mode, that's it, don't watch tv until bed time, try not to spend too much time on the puter, make the basketball games, don't fish, shut it pretty much all down but the immediate family.

But I tell you what Bryce, last year in MN 50 grand in rats would have been doable, almost no problem. No wouldn't that be fun in its own right? Catch a piss pot of rats and make good income doing something a feller loves. Once in awhile it can be about the revenue.

You guys can turn it into what you want but this thread was supposed to be about the strength of the rat market.

[trappnman]

I didn't think your thread was "about me"

my only point, is that chosing speices to trap, isn't an indication of anything but personal preference, and no other conclusions are, or shouldn't be, made from that choice.

for example. I've been trapping and skinning muskrats, for a continous 50+ years- some years a few hundred, other years (with dad) 1000+.

and lets be honest- the technique of catching rats, is as simple as it gets- and while it doesn't bore me per se, the thrill isn't much more than picking carrots from a garden- both give a satisfaction of a job well done.

but I (or you) could teach anyone how to catch mega numbers of rats, as long as they repeat the same thing over and over.

and I do that- all winter long.

but coyote trapping? I've been fairly serious about it for 25+ years- and I'm still a rookie compared to those that have devoted a lifetime to coyotes. Coyotes intrigue me to no end-

money is important, but there are many shades of green.

and personally, I'd rather put up 4 coyotes I caught, than 4 rats.

as far as the rat market having legs- glad of it. Although, I could do without the trespassing on private waters, that I noticed more and more of the past 2 years.

[mattduncan]

Jun 11, 2013 20:17:31 GMT -6 thorsmightyhammer said:

Well what is it.

You say you like to trap coyotes because that is what you like to do.

I say I just love to trap, don't care what it is. I hold no animal in special regards. So if I am gonna do it I am going to make as much as I can. Because profit is a motivator for me doesn't make me good, doesn't make me bad. It just is. I love to trap as much or more than anyone.

Now the point of my whole thread is that I am a little surprised of the durability of the rat market and quite frankly this sale is the highest its been in my lifetime. On a four year bull market that's pretty good.

And if you think this thread was about you, you'd better recheck. If you think I give you a little guff about trapping rats, ask hammer or even blakely how much crap I give them for chasing coon around in the fall and winter.

I should keep my dam mouth shut because the less guys that trap rats in the winter means that much more for me. The less guys that trap them in the fall means that much more left for me.

The reason why I gave Gibb a little guff because I find it humorous when guys say they are going to trap rats this coming fall when we have been in a bull market for rats for 4 years. How long are they going to wait. But I also say it in jest to Jim because he maybe doesn't have access to a bunch of rats. I don't know what Ontario is like. The areas I've seen aren't conducive to rats but Ontario is beyond huge.

Muskrat said earlier last fall about the possibility of rats going to 20 bucks.

Well we didn't average that, but I got 19.50 for several. If I would have had my last batch of rats on this sale I would have got 19.50 for hundreds.

It kind of amazes me.

If it keeps raining here I may have a decent number to catch , there's lots of competition here for them though was even when they were 5 bucks

[FWS]

So what has the muskrat harvest been for the last few years ? Nationally and by state. Anybody have any current numbers to compare with those of the 70's and 80's ?

The total US harvest during that era,

77-78- 5,757,000
78-79- 6,288,000
79-80- 8,287,000
80-81- 9,313,000
81-82- 7,140,000
83-84- 5,583,000
84-85- 5,264,000
85-86- 3,323,000
86-87- 6,037,000
87-88- 5,825,000-

And after the effects of the stock market crash of 87'

88-89- 2,429,000
89-90- 1,284,000
90-91- 950,000
91-92- 1,206,000
92-93- 1,338,000
93-94- 1,888,000

Just looking at some of the big numbers states on the highest harvest year,

MN 80-81- 1,419,000
WI 80-81- 968,000
OH 80-81- 552,000
MI 80-81- 696,000
IA 80-81- 739,000
NY 80-81- 556,000
PA 80-81- 344,000
LA- 80-81- 702,000

Are any of these states close to this now ?

[thorsmightyhammer]

I don't think so John.

Just too much habitat loss IMHO

[FWS]

That's my understanding too. Habitat loss, land use changes, invasive plants taking over that are either not or are poor muskrat forage, parasites, maybe some chemicals, etc.

With the harvest numbers down from historic levels I was thinking that 's a part of the current market, with the supply not meeting the demand and forcing competition amongst buyers with higher prices resulting.

With cats, there are at least 20,000 fewer cats hitting the market than during the 70's and 80's. With the ballot measures mandating equipment changes in formerly big cat producing states like CA, AZ, WA, and CO, which produced mostly good cats.

[trappnman]

in the 50s, even into the 60s, the Winona pools of the Upper Mississippi were teeming with rats- it was literally possible in areas, to hop from house to house.

water levels are for the most part the same- whats changed, is invasive plants crowding out native grasses, and runoff from the constant chemicals, I do believe the increased, year round raptor population (changed from shoot on sight) combined with the multitude of 1000 year floods, has hurt the populations as well

[thorsmightyhammer]

I am sure the reduced harvest has something to do with it John.

It would be interesting to know how many more or less ranch mink are produced today.

Cats are in a league of their own, maybe marten too but the rest is pretty much driven by ranch.

How long have the dams been in place in the Mississippi? I am also sure that sedimentation is playing a part as well.

Reports are that Pepin is being choked by sedimentation, it only stands to reason that it could be choking the wetlands along the Miss.

[FWS]

The cat supply will most likely decrease some more if the prices stay high, with states that don't already impose individual limits doing so and states that have individual limits dropping the limit further.

[Gibb]

You can sure tell it is the off season, I think all trappers like to rag each other.
I still can not believe I received more money for a slight damaged rat than for a select of the same size.
I going to double my rat catch from 50 to at least a hundred this year.
Might even triple my marten catch.
Jim

[blackhammer]

Jun 18, 2013 4:47:47 GMT -6 Gibb said:

You can sure tell it is the off season, I think all trappers like to rag each other.
I still can not believe I received more money for a slight damaged rat than for a select of the same size.
I going to double my rat catch from 50 to at least a hundred this year.
Might even triple my marten catch.
Jim

Do you have a quota on the number of marten you can trap and for that matter other animals Gibb?

[Gibb]

Quota on marten, lynx and a minimum harvest of beaver quota. Some areas have a fisher quota also.
Jim

[thorsmightyhammer]

I'm gonna try double my rat catch from last year as well Jim.

Maybe even triple.

Might even catch a beaver this year.

[blackhammer]

Jun 18, 2013 20:50:39 GMT -6 thorsmightyhammer said:

I'm gonna try double my rat catch from last year as well Jim.

Maybe even triple.

Might even catch a beaver this year.

Your not really a High Roller unless you catch some coon.

[thorsmightyhammer]

Jun 18, 2013 20:53:22 GMT -6 blackhammer said:

Jun 18, 2013 20:50:39 GMT -6 thorsmightyhammer said:

I'm gonna try double my rat catch from last year as well Jim.

Maybe even triple.

Might even catch a beaver this year.

Your not really a High Roller unless you catch some coon.

I'd rather catch them 8 dollar 'possum

[northof50]

These prices are here to stay. Compared to the domestic mink prices it is only 10 percent
Looks like I'll have 6 feet of Alberta water my way soon