mud motor question's

[yack]

I'm thinking about a small flat bottom, with a "mudmotor", for running the small crick's, and river's, that I like to trap. Most are fairly shallow, have plenty of downed tree's, and have a moderate amount of current.
Anybody have any experience with them?
Brand, durability, horsepower, etc?
Thanks
Jim

[thorsmightyhammer]

Jim, I've talked to several rat trappers that swear by Backcountry if you are going to go with a longtail.

I got to meet the maker in mankato a week or two ago and took a good look at them.

Pretty solid motor.

How big you looking.

If I get time to trap this fall I'm gonna pull the trigger on a 23 horse backcountry unless someone can talk me into a surface drive before that.

[yack]

Thanks for the info guy's.
I'm going to do a little research now.

Steven;
I did awesome at NAFA.
How'd you end up doing with the rat's?
I'm still cutting tree's, I have got 4 good sized pile of free log's.
One of these year's we will hook up, on the rat's. Then I'll race your new Bearcat, against my old Tundra. LOL
Jim

[thorsmightyhammer]

My old bearcat will smoke your tundra if its on of those one cylinder wonders.

Caught a lot of rats.

[rk660]

if your on small, and i mean SMALL creeks river, w/ no boat launch, and shallow w/ logs, and or dragging over rocks, here would be your dream machine.
a little coleman crawdad, 12 ft plastic joh boat.

youll play hell with anything bigger dragging up/down banks. weight wise and plastic which slides so easy over rocks on bottom, sand bars etc.

ground 700-800 lbs of boat and motor on a rocky bottom w/ any alum rig, its give all you got, and move it 6" . over and over. that little plastic boat will slide w/ 1/4 the effort. it also makes jumping logs much easyer, again its the friction of plastic bottom compared to alum bottom.

I ran one of these for year on a river line, where dragging down 10-20' banks to launch was the norm, and rocks to drag over, and multiple logs to slide over every run. the "tupperware bowl boat" as my buddy calls it, outshined ANY alum boat no matter what the size/style

I ran a 6 hp scavenger on this rig, althou i wouldnt recomend getting one.

Your dream motor would be, keeping in mind wieght factor, would prolly be the stump-jumper mud motor, w/ a 7 h.p. robin/suberu motor. it weighs in at 62 lbs, and will have the highest power to weigh ratio any mud motor under 10 hp, the robin motor is highly spoke of from research ive done, and same with stumpjumper frame, they also sell frame kit w/o motor.

this will be hands down the next mud motor i buy.

If i wanted a bigger motor, i think id go with the backwater brand motor. they seem to be at cutting edge mudmotor technology. i talked to one of the owners a good deal at NTA last year

get a small atv winch and mount on front of boat, you can winch up banks and over logs.
if not too steep, or severe change of angle, you can flip motor around, leave 200 lbs or so in boat, and drag up bank logchain and atv or truck, or use winch. blaze a trail to a sandbar, you can trailer whole thing right to water with atv. anything much bigger, weigh wise, you have a hard time pulling it up a grade w/ atv. you can even pull this boat on the ground if needed in a pinch, its perfetly flat, and slide real easy. youd wanna be careful you aint burning too much plastic off bottom id mention.

Now, if your launches are deceint where you can about get right next to water, maybe not back trailer in, but say you can get darn close over flat ground, AND you wont be dragging over shallow rocks all day, youd prolly be better stepping up to a 14 ft boat, and maybe a little more motor. you can drag boat by hand a few yards, then carry motor and mount on boat. My 9 h.p. go-devil, and 10 yards over FLAT ground is about the most I want to lug it. I cant overstate this weight issue if youve got to drag stuff to water's edge. Remember youll prolly be load/unload 2x a day. REMEMBER THIS, before some genious trys to talk you into a 18-23-29 hp motor. try lifting one once out in the field, by hand, down a bank, into water and ankle deep mud, and lift onto your boat. .....you prolly get the picture.

On small rivers Im talking about, that are full of underwater snags, stumps, shallow concreate and rebar from old dam or bridge hiding under 3" muddy water. If a guy actually got some 16-18' boat, with some monster sized mud motor like a 23hp, and ran that thing full throttle......be worth buying tickets too when they hit some of that sheet at 20mph,LOL.

another option on this type water you might consider, a sterned, or even plain old canoe w/ motor mount, w/ a 2.5-4 hp aircooled outboard. pretty nimble and light weight rig, little aircooled gamefisher or cruise and carry motor will move them right along. even on sterned canoe, you want your motor mounted dang near off the side. You can then "lean" the thing over while cruising,pulling yuor prop up shallow when needed to skirt obstructions. little motors like these run all day on qt or gas. some had nice little clutches in lower unit that would keep from constantly breaking shear pins, and protect lower unit. Then at end of day, ya climb up your bank w/ motor in one hand, and a coon in the other. Try that w/ any mudmotor,LOL.

49,er are you sure that wasnt a BACKWATER, and not backcountry, mud motor you are looking at. the guy with a funny first name, and kinda looks like old hippie? i think he really does know his sheet on mudmotors.

23 hp mudmotor, on a sea of cattails, chasing high dollar rats, LOL. This be worth seeing! Mudmotors DO get stuck if ya try hard enough, especailly in the reeds. I bet a guy could get GOOD and STUCK with all that power. Dial "911 Airboat Rescue Service"---"yep we'll cruise right on in there and pull ya out, 6" water and 1/2 mile thick reeds, no problem, price? bout a grand"

[mustelameister]

Rich, nice dissertation. Have you heard anything good about the crawdad motor? Here's the website. Looks to me like they'd be just the berries for that plastic boat of yours, but I can't find anyone who can back 'em up.

www.crawdadmotors.com/

I can see this motor on the back of my Sportspal, but not sure I'm willing to risk a grand to see whether or not it will hold up.

[thorsmightyhammer]

Yep rich its backcountry.

Arlo is his name.

This genius is looking hard at a 23 horse lol.

[yack]

RK;
Thanks for the info, very informative.
I'll look into a crawdad. How much "stuff" could you haul in one?
I've tried canoe's, aluminum, wood/canvas, and kevlar. Have also tried a Grumman sport-boat, it did alright with a small motor, but if you have to paddle it, good luck. Kind of like paddling a log.
I like kevlar because of the weight, but trying to paddle a 17' canoe solo, with a load of trap's and equipment, is tough. No control when they are weighted down. Most of the time, I just drag it behind me as I walk up-stream, then paddle back down. It work's but I'd like to do it a little quicker.
Forgot about the aluminum sticking to every rock in the crick, that's why I canned them very early on, like thirty year's ago. LOL
I'm gettin old, and I'd like to eliminate that unproductive water, alot quicker.
The winch is a great idea, but then I've got to lug around a battery, too. Might be worth it, pulling over downed tree's.
The river's I trap, are mostly sand/mud bottom's, rock's in some of the rapid's.
In the section I like to trap, there are 3 rapid's in about 12-15 mile's of river. Short stretch's maybe 50-60 yards. Lot's of downed tree's, some beaver dam's. I've thought about floating it in the summer with my chainsaw, but as soon as I open it up, there will be somebody else using it. I'm a nice guy, but not that nice! I've even thought of portaging the first few downed tree's, and then opening it up, but someone will figure it out, and there I go working for someone else, for free again. Mostly I'd be putting in at bridge's, most of them have canoe access's. Probably would'nt have to drag anything more than 50 yard's.
Do you think that the 7-9 hp, mud motor's would have enough gumption, to push a 14' jonboat, in a moderate current?
Do you trap the Platte river in Nebraska? I'd say the current in the Platte, is about the same I'd be dealing with here. I've been by there quite a few time's over the year's, I do alot of bowhunting out west.
I'm not worried about getting up on plane, there are so many bend's in the upper part of the river, your lucky to find a straight section a hundred yard's long. Once you get down stream a way's the river open's up, to where you could use an outboard in the main channel, but mighty shallow close to the bank's.
If I could buy one motor that would work half-azzed on both rig's, I'd probably just buy 2 boat's.
Thanks again
Jim

[yack]

RK;
One more thing, might sound wierd.
Have you ever thought about a sheet of thick plastic, attached to the front of your jonboat, running along the bottom, and then attached at the top of the transom?
No hole's in the hull, just above the waterline.
Jim

[thorsmightyhammer]

I'll try it one more time rich..

It's backwater like you said

I always want to say backcountry



I had even meant to correct myself in my second post and still said backcountry

[yack]

Steven;
Sent for a set of mud motor plan's.
I'm going that route on the motor, doesn't look too complicated.
If I get one to work out, I'll let you know.
Jim

[Bigfoot]

that crawdad looks like a prop on a big weed eater

[BadDog]

OK, I jumped at RKs recommendation, Stumpjumper is on the way!!! But now for the boat.... I take it the coleman crawdad is no longer made and I just can't seem to find one??? Are they no longer made, and so if not, what's another good little light duty boat to use? I'm taking the kid along too this spring.

[musher]

Is the APS 2.6 a good motor. I know it's basically a 2004 2.6 Yamaha. Much cheaper than a mud motor. i also think it's lighter.

[rk660]

what size stumpjumper you getting Marty? Im jealous. there are some crawdads still floating around craigslist. BD-you might just look for a narrow 14' also, much better than a 12' alum joh w/ 12 people. a bigger 12' v nose wouldnt be bad either. v nose 14' would be nice but usually on the heavy side compared to a jon. the crawdad is best on smaller water w/o too much wind. its portablity is where it shines the most. its water manners about a akin to a large turbberware rectangle contaner,LOL. if getting in water you want to work isnt too big a deal, i'd look for 12 v or a lighter 14 v or jon.

That APS is still just another water cooled outboard. your still gonna have same problems with it that when needed you need a mud motor. constantly running shallow your gonna plug the water intake, or burn up water pumps from dirt,sand,etc. balled up prop in any but thin vegitation, and prolly constantly break shear pins, or worst, lower units. reeds and outboards dont mix too well in my experience. on the right water, an outboard can work, but you need more water depth, very few obstructions, and not have to bore thru thick reeds a lot is where they work. some marshes have the right depth to work w/ outboard, but its not always that commom to find the right water

[musher]

Does anyone have information regarding "Champion" mud motors?

[yack]

There's a crawdad on the Minneapolis Craigslist. Mighty expensive! Sorry I'm not running around in a plastic boat, no matter how good they work. Wonder how many milk jug's/bread bag's, it take's to make a plastic boat? LOL
No dissin Rich on this one, plastic just doesn't fit my style. I'm old school!
I've been doing a lot of research on these mud motor's.
One thing I've found out is that longer is better than wider for a mud motor boat.
All of the boat's weight(operator, gas tank,motor), is all hanging off the back of the boat. You'll have to pile alot of stuff in the front to get one to plane out, which the small motor's will not do, unless you have it mounted on a lilypad! LOL
If you don't have enough horsepower you'll probably wallow around with your front end in the air. Kind of negates the effect of the flat shallow water boat, when your azzend is dragging on the bottom.
Most of the handle's on these MMs are close to 3' long so your rear seat will be useless, That's one of the reason's why you see alot of people standing up to operate. Another reason is so you can see what your going to hit! LOL
Saw 3 or 4 of them the other day on the river(Mississippi), there were 5-6 jonboats, a couple with outboards the other's with mud motor's. They were all smokin down the river.
I was coming back from scoring a pretty good john boat deal.
Now all I need is a mud motor.
One more thing, unless you are going for a small horsepower MM, they are not all that portable, and they will probably be mounted permanantly on your boat. In that case you might as well get something that will move right along.
I can see still having to use a canoe on the smaller crick's, putting in upstream, and drifting down, but if you can launch a boat the jonboat with a mud motor is the real deal.
Get a jon with a coast guard front end, or a modified v front end.
A friend of mine was using a flat front jon to trap rats in the cattails, he told me that the flat front just rides over the top of the cattails, and you will get stuck. He broke two oar's trying to get out, so all he did was trap the open water near the cattails. He told me the guy's in the v front's with the MMs could sail right through the cattails.
Imagine that trapping competition, for rat's. LOL
One more thing is that MMs are louder than outboards.
An outboards exhaust is under the water, the MMs is right at ear level.
Jim

[thorsmightyhammer]

Yack I've talked to enough guys who run big cattail water with thick weeds that I will buy a v bottom and skip the Jon.

Not the deep vs like a Lund but more like the old Alumacrafts.

I'm going to pick up a boat this summer but won't buy a motor until I'm a 100% sure I can use it

[yack]

Steven;
Another thing I've found out, is it's probably better to buy a new or used mud motor instead of making your own.
The only thing that make's it profitable to build your own MM, is if you have your own engine to put on the frame.
If you have to buy an engine, and all of the component's to build your own you'll have better than a grand into the project.
If your this far along you may as well buy used, atleast it will be professionally built.
I've seen a few homebuilt long tail frame's on Craigslist, most of them are around $1500. You can buy a pretty nice used one for that kind of coin.
My old-lady has a 12' vee style row boat, that I've tried, but even with a six horse on there the front end, is aiming toward's the sky, and there's no carrying capacity at all. By the time you get a motor, a gas can and you sitting in the boat you better be toward's the middle if you want to float in anything over 6"s of water. She bought it for the time's, I can't go fishing, and she want's too. Now she's found out, for the hassle it's easier to launch the 16' Lund. So now she has a good 12' boat/trailer for sale. LOL
I ended up with a coast guard style jonboat, that's 15' long by 44" wide. Should have the same surface area, and weight as a 1448, but narrower, and longer. I figure it ought to work pretty good, although I've thought that of all of the previous boat's that I no longer own! The coast-guard style front end is very similar to a vee hull boat, but the top front is flat. I think it should work pretty good.
They are all a compromise, probably the best thing for the rat marsh would be a push-pole style duck boat. No capacity, but they sure go through the cattail's nice.
Another thing, is that the MMs take a ton more maintanence than an outboard, and you will be replacing part's fairly regularly, including $200 props.
Check out a website called Mud Motor Talk, lot's of good info.
Jim

[thorsmightyhammer]

Jim if I buy one it will be new.

I'll buy the backwater, less maintenance but they go through props like the rest.

14' boat, move the backseat and install a grab bar. Probably have to rake out the center seat.

Its a lifetime investment Jim don't look for a deal. Look for the best. Then look for a deal.

You are going to buy it for the rest of