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Post by seldom on Feb 21, 2013 22:31:35 GMT -6
Ron, I believe your the person who can give us the straight doe on this.
Lets talk about rat scanning. There are some discussions occuring on other boards as to where does the scanner stop! Is a rat scanned belly AND back or just belly or just back? is the back "T" or "V" scanned? Where it stops scanning, is that than also the size(length in inches vs cm2)?
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Post by TrapperRon on Feb 21, 2013 22:54:01 GMT -6
I just checked today and they are scanned. As I understand it they scan the back in sq cm. They have parameters for each size that were converted from the old length measurements. Most of the rats in the past were sized by eye. Handling 1000's of rats a day the grader recognizes easily where a rat belongs.
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Post by renny1 on Feb 22, 2013 6:16:56 GMT -6
So the raccoon "money cut" works on rats also?? Seems wood stretchers would be the best then.
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Post by seldom on Feb 22, 2013 6:33:34 GMT -6
I just checked today and they are scanned. As I understand it they scan the back in sq cm. They have parameters for each size that were converted from the old length measurements. Most of the rats in the past were sized by eye. Handling 1000's of rats a day the grader recognizes easily where a rat belongs. Thanks Ron! So if I understand you Ron, the "T" or "V" is scanned and the scanning doesn't stop at the skirt line? If that is correct than as Renny mentioned, a "coon-type" cut (just below the anus[opposite tail side], heel to heel) is the "money" cut on rats! |
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Post by renny1 on Feb 22, 2013 8:37:13 GMT -6
"They have parameters for each size that were converted from the old length measurements" ---makes me think they scan to highest place on skirt.
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Post by seldom on Feb 22, 2013 10:41:00 GMT -6
"They have parameters for each size that were converted from the old length measurements" ---makes me think they scan to highest place on skirt. That's not how I took Ron's statement. Yes, there is a conversion but Ron's comment sounded as though the cm2 of the entire back fur INCLUDING the "T". If this is what he said, it would/could certainly increase the length./size due to the conversion. This would make a real change from the "highest point of the skirt" length/size measurement. Hopefully Ron comes back and clarify his comment |
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Post by TrapperRon on Feb 22, 2013 10:49:29 GMT -6
You guys raise some good questions and today I will get more technical information when I talk to Dave Bewick. He is working the auction stand so can only chat with him at noon or after the sale.
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Post by seldom on Feb 22, 2013 11:14:42 GMT -6
You guys raise some good questions and today I will get more technical information when I talk to Dave Bewick. He is working the auction stand so can only chat with him at noon or after the sale. Super! Thank you Ron. |
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Post by TrapperRon on Feb 22, 2013 17:11:18 GMT -6
Ok update.
The total back is scanned and there is a reading in Sq. Cm. for each pelt as it passes through. It is described as "takes a picture".
There is a sq. cm reading converted from the old tape measurements for each size, so they have a size readout.
So yes the money cut and pinning out the sides half way from the tail point to the edge of the board will give you a couple more sq, cm.
It may be of some advantage to use boards, provided they are not too thick to gain those extra sq. cm on borderline rat sizes.
Also scanned are the beaver and otter. Raccoons are not scanned at this time due to the many different stretches and sections.
Hope that answers the questions.
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Post by renny1 on Feb 22, 2013 17:42:02 GMT -6
Thanks Ron
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Post by wileytrapper on Feb 22, 2013 17:48:45 GMT -6
Yes I really appreciate the response.--Thank you
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Post by seldom on Feb 22, 2013 18:14:23 GMT -6
Thank you very much Ron. You have indeed swept away the conjecture that has followed the scanning process of rats since NAFA started!! Knowledge means power and in this case, knowledge means $$!!
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Feb 22, 2013 22:11:29 GMT -6
Seldom.
I was able to scan my own rats in Stoughton about 3 years ago.
Pretty cool.
My understanding is the machine takes a picture and uses the pixels to come up with a measurement.
If I was going to ship all my rats I'd use wood.
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Post by jim on Feb 23, 2013 5:10:02 GMT -6
I think the money cut Seldom refers to would be a lot more than a couple of sqcm. Jim
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Post by seldom on Feb 23, 2013 7:03:01 GMT -6
Seldom. I was able to scan my own rats in Stoughton about 3 years ago. Pretty cool. My understanding is the machine takes a picture and uses the pixels to come up with a measurement. If I was going to ship all my rats I'd use wood. Yup, I gave all of my wires away years ago! |
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Post by stickbowhntr on Feb 23, 2013 7:20:14 GMT -6
Are there any illistrations/video etc of the money cut to view? I try to explain but fail misserable and lots ask me. Can anybody post a link or post some pics rpo show ? THANK YOU .
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Post by seldom on Feb 23, 2013 7:20:30 GMT -6
I think the money cut Seldom refers to would be a lot more than a couple of sqcm. Jim Yes, Jim's correct. I have always cut to the anus from each ankle than from the anus up to my tail and with scanning, this cut inadvertently gave me extra cm2. Now that I know "the rest of the story" I'll change my cut slightly and put even more fur on the back. I've seen the photos of this cut and the pin-up and the additional cm2 even over my cut is obvious. This is why I was pressing Ron for the clarification because everything in NAFA publications and on their website still talks in terms of visual sizing not scanning. I feel if you sell rats through NAFA today, understanding the difference between visual sizing and scanning is extremely important "money cut" and put-up knowledge!!! |
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Post by trappnman on Feb 23, 2013 8:15:10 GMT -6
so, to understand this- most local auctions and sales were as high or higher than the final cash in hand prices at NAFA this sale
so scanning, really isn't making a "bigger" rat in practical terms
if I'm missing something, i'm sure it will be pointed out to me.
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Post by northof50 on Feb 23, 2013 13:30:33 GMT -6
tman pm sent
refer to the old posting on otter.
the grader has the optium if the money cuts shows on a rat to lower since the hair is different on that line from the belly to back.
the triangle is not used in the measurement
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Post by bblwi on Feb 23, 2013 16:00:13 GMT -6
The advantage is always to the buyer on size even with the scanner. One can only sell a size and it needs to make the minimum size to get to the next size but you get nothing extra for the say 10 to 15 square inches of pelt until you reach the next size and up and up and up. I know it has to be measured some way but they are still put into sizes that we measure by length at an appropriate width. When they start paying by the square inch than each rat will be different. I doubt for simplicity sake that will be in the near future.
Same with coons as well. You need 32 to get to 3xl but you get no more for the pelt until it gets to 35. So at 7.5 inches or 8 inches near the bottom the buyer gets the 25 square inches at no additional cost.
to me the scanning machine must have been calculated differently this year as I had very significant different amounts from my measurements and all to the next lower size.
Bryce
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