carcass piles

[Possum]

I've set near roadkilled deer, discarded remains of deer I butchered, piles-o-muskrats and other dead things I've found around the landscapes where I trap. I even buried a dead skunk once, leaving the tail exposed, a set I read about in an ancient trapping book. Basically, all these sets seem to suck. Right now I have a 5 gallon bucket of skinned muskrat carcasses. Should I:
1) Throw them in the trash.
2) Put one at each trapsite where I have a coyote set.
3) Put the whole pile at one trapsite and hope the whole pack comes for a visit.

I have plenty of beaver and cat meat/tainted and preserved for bait.

So if I dump the carcasses, why would Mr. Yote try to dig up my morsel when he can just snarf up a whole muskrat carcass?

And you guys that skin on the fly. Do you use the coyote carcass as some kind of attractant?

I'm sure some are going to suggest putting all the carcasses in one spot then setting snares on the travel routes to them. I don't hate coyotes enough to do that. I'm a recreational trapper and if I can't get them to step on the sweet spot of one of my Sleepy Creeks, I let 'em make babies for next year that I can catch.

[seldom]

Dec 6, 2012 15:09:14 GMT -6 Possum said:

Right now I have a 5 gallon bucket of skinned muskrat carcasses. Should I:
1) Throw them in the trash.
2) Put one at each trapsite where I have a coyote set.
3) Put the whole pile at one trapsite and hope the whole pack comes for a visit.

And you guys that skin on the fly. Do you use the coyote carcass as some kind of attractant?

I'm sure some are going to suggest putting all the carcasses in one spot then setting snares on the travel routes to them.

1st answer- #3 and I don't care if they come in singles, pairs, or the frigin whole family but they will come! Come easy, come hard, they all come!!! Last week I dumped 40 rat carcasss on a little island in the middle of a now, open water fragmite marsh . I fully intend to do what I've always done, set it up with footholds as I would have with snares AFTER I get hard water AND snow!

I've "skinned on the fly" for the past 3 years(and will continue) but see no up-tick in my coyote catch rate whatsoever that I can honestly attibute to carcasses left at the location. I figure if I'm setup on a stall-out location, I'm on location regardless on how I try to enhance it, it's still "the spot" to be!

Since I don't "bait'em-up" before I start trapping, the short period of time I'm actually at any location doesn't appear to make any difference at all in coyote numbers or coyote "approaches" because of the carcasses. Further more, the one thing I DO SEE where I've skinned and left carcasses is huge up-tick in possum catches!!!! I'm not discounting the attractiveness of the fresh carcasses to other coyotes even if I don't see it in an increase catch rate but I ABSOLUTLELY KNOW I see a serious attractiveness by possum!!!

Last season I had a triple at a location so I had 3 coyote carcasses in a pile. I watched those carcasses and the area within 50 yds of those carcasses AFTER I'd pulled(easy drive-by) forvseveral weeks! NOT A SINGLE coyote track was every seen!! Lots of possum tracks with the warm winter and evidence of eating by possum BUT NO coyote, yet there were infrequent coyote activity in the general vicinity!

[trappnman]

seldom, the 2nd two coyotes you caught at that location, might well have stayed around longer because of the carcass

using inedible baits, its hard to tell if they did the job or not. Every place I caught multiple coyotes, I had carcasses out.

did they help? again, hard to say- but they certainly aren't a negative.

deer are odd insofar as coyotes and eating off them- many times, I find a deer this time of year, and observe it for weeks- with coyote tracks nearby and the deer remains untouched til one day- boom! its gone almost literally overnight. Same with calves and cows.

but with cows, once they start feeding off them, they return nightly until its gone, and then even longer at where it was

IMO, placing a rat carcass at every set, is doing nothing but feeding the crows and raptors and will do very little and more likely nothing in regards to coyotes

I've got a couple piles out right now, in coyote country, and with this fine dry weather, birds are the only ones eating off them-

I'd do as seldom suggested, and put everything in one huge pile, but even then, this time of year limited attraction to them

one piece of advice 1080 told us, was to talk to your farmers al lyear, and everytime they get a dead cow or calf- you come get it and put it where you want. I admit, I don't have the time for this myself (or at least only limited) but do have a lot of farmers that will put their dead stuff where I want it- and having that regular bait all year, DOES make those areas "the spot" areas

[trappincoyotes39]

You have good places for carcasses and mediocure places. I had a place where a rancher "dumped" things, I could always catch a few coyotes off of it, I had a place 3/4 mile away where I put roadkill deer that I caught alot of coyotes off of it. The differance is simply the location of the carcass pile.

I have never found scraps to be near the same value as whole critters and the larger the better come late fall/winter.

[trappnman]

I agree the location of a carcass pile, makes a difference.........but

so many times, and of course I'm talking my country where dead cows aren't just left, but are moved- just the addition of a dead cow, makes a mediocre location into a great one.

I say this for a couple of reasons. Our habitat is consistent as it is out west, but its as different as day or night in that the west is often consistent by large stretches of "dead" or barren areas, so that the environment plays a big role- plus those wide open spaces- where here its consistent in good habitat. so rather than too much barren, it often becomes a game of too much good- where one has lots of little farms, many or most (at least the ones i trap) with cows, with ravines, with set asides with lots and lots of good habitat-

so here, with the addition of a cow anywhere on the back forty in conjunction with the habitat, it more often than not becomes an immediate attraction.

There are exceptions of course- and I think one has to keep this analogy in mind as well-

if you are fishing a creek with little habitat, you tend to go to and fish each honey hole, cause that's where the fish are. On a good creek, you have almost continuous habitat, and one fishes it entirely different. You do each different because of how the goal (fish) would best be accomplished.

Do not coyotes do the same? Studies have shown quite often, and the study here confirmed that, of having multiple (spot attractions) visited on a regular (ie same night) period, and often checking and rechecking 3-4 spots during their evening.

Why? One could easily conclude, that its because of so much good habitat- and lets say within a territory is 4, 5, more dead piles, attraction locations- it stands to reason not only would each one not be visited as long or as often as an area with few attractions, but they would be less interested and less inclined, to make any THE spot or attraction point.

And I see this, on my lines. 2 lines are flat, open country, 3 are hilly coulee country.

the 2 lines, have more isolated attraction points- like the only gas station in the county- everyone shows up there

the 3, have multiple points many of which I'm sure I don't even know exist.

In this type of country, is where I find the addition of a large bait like a cow or a bunch of calves, aids.

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman I find it interesting that you have come full circle on cattle as a bait station compaired to what you stated years back?

coyotesrus.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=talk&action=display&thread=8194

What has changed ? The habitat, the coyote densities, the ability to pick the better location? Why has cattle become a main stay in 2011 and 2012 when a few years back they weren't much at all more hit and miss? Coyotes are survivors for sure and maybe they have adapted to more cattl in your country or the lack of pig piles?

[trappnman]

I've alway trapped with cattle

as per But even if they aren't feeding on them, they know piles are there and I've never seen where a carcass dump isn't a focal point and an attractant for them. Setting up the lanes and field edges to these dumps always pays off.

[trappincoyotes39]

Yes but what has changed your mind on cattle being hit and miss versus the main stay of rat and mink carcasses holding more value to you? Now cattle has become YOUR "place" to be and it seems your mindset is focused more heavy on cattle? Just trying to figure out the changes in your area over time is all.

A concerteted effort to have dump piles of dead cattle versus being a hit and miss thing of the past?

[trappnman]

I'll be more than glad to debate my opinions, but I do insist one sticks to what I've said, not what one thinks I said

first of all- I've never said or implied, that rat/mink carcasses are good or bad for coyotes- indeed, I've never used either. I do have dump piles of them, but thats because I don't want to save them, and need disposal areas

secondly- where do you get my mindset is now "more on cattle'? My mindset has always BEEN on cattle, proof dating back to articles 10, 15 years ago stating just that. so point #2- I've ALWAY set by/near/on cattle-

What I DID say- and what was said has nothing do do with dead being or not being attraction points- is that EATING those cattle seems to be hit or miss. Whats implied, is WHEN I WAS THERE

but, in the thread you pulled or were given, I stated quite emphatically- dead were STILL AN ATTRACTION POINT

so i'll have to say, not sure what you are trying to say is an inconsistentcy or change in opinion.

What I posted then, and now, and 15 years ago- is pretty much the same thing

so learning the "spot" isn't learning about dead piles or that cattle & coyotes go together like badgers and gophers, pretty much picked up on that 25 years ago- but learning WHERE at or around that dead pile- is the place to set for maximum gain

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman just trying to figure it out to see if or how things have changed in your area through time.

Cattle dumps seldom worked in the dead of winter? Not much feeding taking place.

I don't know what you menat by cattle dumps I would think those that died in that time frame and not summer dead?

It is different than what I have seen in other areas is all. All things need a cool down period before the majority will come into feed. Then once ready as you stated they clean them up in short order. The main change I have seen in this is deer season, we have had gutted deer fed upon by coyotes that same night.

I was just trying to see why the cattle dumps in the past weren't as productive for you as now it seems you key in on them more or come to rely on dead piles as a focus point for more of your sets.

When you where there? Meaning early fall and not durring winter and cold temps correct? Large specie bait stations will have more feeding activity when the temps drop No doubt about it and will create some milling effect earlier in the season due to temps is what you are saying, "when you where there"?

I could see that being the case.

[trappnman]

Tman just trying to figure it out to see if or how things have changed in your area through time.

they have not- cattle, dumps, etc have been consistent over time

Cattle dumps seldom worked in the dead of winter? Not much feeding taking place.

I didn't say they were seldom worked during the winter. I don't believe I commented on that either way. I have stated, I've seen dead calves in the winter, with coyotes around that were not eaten- I personally think this is due to too much antibiotics but thats a SWAG

I'm not around cattle dumps during the winter- I AM around rat/mink/coon/beaver dumps al lwinter

I don't know what you meant by cattle dumps I would think those that died in that time frame and not summer dead?

no- dumps are permanent, and used all year- many have been in same location for decades, all dead cows/calves are added to the pile as they die.

We also have compost piles- often next to barns, etc where cattle are composted with either dirt of sawdust. These are often big piles but 99% covered

I also have farmers that do this- drag a dead cow into the middle of a field out of site- cause they know the birds, raptors, coyotes clean it up in short notice- and this type of thing, is to me like finding a good nugget on the line- a fresh cow in an open field out of site- is without equal

was just trying to see why the cattle dumps in the past weren't as productive for you as now it seems you key in on them more or come to rely on dead piles as a focus point for more of your sets.

the cattle dumps in the past were/are as productive as cattle dumps today for me. Nothing in that has changed and in fact, a good 30-40 farms with dead cows, were set up about the same this year, as they were 25 years ago.

whats changed, is where I set up on those farms

TC- you have repeated this same thing in several posts- how and why did you come to that conclusion?

[RdFx]

Talking about cattle used to draw yotes. When out in ND ( only nine days) on the ranches i trap ped dead angus caught in mudholes ect and some on open praire werent even touched and the cattle were all the way from dried up skeleton and hide to fresh cows dying in mudholes.
I find this same thing in WI, cattle arent touched , just dry up....now calves are munched but thats it. I caught yotes in ND near the carcasses and in WI. I always stay about 100 yards away fm carcasses.

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman I came to that conclsuion from your comment posted a few years back.

Cattle dumps get worked very seldom- even in the dead of winter. Coyotes hang around, but there is little evidence of them feeding on the dead animals. Many, many times I see winter dumped calves, that are untouched all winter, even though coyote tracks come within inches of them. Yes, occasionally they do feed on them, but not near as often as I had thought they would.

Mixed carcass piles do well for me- rats, mink, coon, canines.

[trappnman]

a brief period when I snared for a year I observed that- a snapshot in time

but nothing about that has anything do do with your 100 previous questions concerning whether I set around cattle, or dumps

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman I don't think I asked 100 questions I just wanted to know how it has changed for you. You told me it hasn't so be it. You know your area so a mute point. Thanks for the answers.