Lessons

[Wright Brothers]

These were coon and yes opposum sets, at the owners request to thin the herd, and I did.
Single rebar and Rons cable. Coon traps with longer chain than my k9 traps.
Wet area. Like I said it depends, no one answer to anchoring in my area.

And like I said, try pulling em side by side. I was surprised the differance.
Not trying to convince, and not investing in springs, just an observation.
I have friends that use springs, their chains are longer than my k9 rigs that are 10 inch.
10 is actually "shorter" when pinned in bottom of trap bed.
Works good for me, nothing is finite.

It's now winter here, and chains "could" be a little longer now, it "depends".

[trappnman]

you liked my 'depends "comment didn't ya?

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman the shock helps in soils that aren't real solid no matter the anchor. If possum was have 2 stakes moving the shock springs could be of help plain and simple. Or he could go with longer Rebar which I would do regardless. Shock springs also help on the animal end as well. In fact in BMP testing the traps I have tested all where done with the shock springs. It doesn't state they are mandatory just tested with such a device added to them. In the BMP testing and using rebar a is where I noticed the advantage to them. These traps didn't have 2-3 ft of chain either. 24 hr check was in effect. I worked with them on the longer 72 hr when doing control work and saw the same benefit on 18-30" of chain. I since have seen I can shorten the chain somewhat with the shock springs saving some money on chain and adding anchoring benefits for ME. Less movement of any anchor.

Now does everyone use them.? Nope but I have found enough benefit for their use and justify the cost by the performance I receive from them. You asked on a solid anchor trap what benefit? I responded with animal welfare to a degree and also not all solid anchors stay such depending on anchor used,soils,and weather and check times. They can offer added insurance at a cost, that is up to each to decide if the added 26.00 per dozen is worth it to them/ you if not so be it. They offer a value to a trap for larger canines like coyotes.

[trappnman]

again, if a trap is properly staked with a short chain, THEN A SHOCKSPRING HAS ZERO VALUE EXCEPT EXCESS WEIGHHT AND MORE BULK TO BURY

there is no "problem" for a shockspring to "fix"

I asked you on a Soild staked SHORT CHAINED TRAP

and you have, and not unexpectedly, come up with NO benefit, because there ARE none

[trappincoyotes39]

Ok................

[Possum]

Back when I was using 1 3/4 traps for coyotes I outfitted many of them with shock springs. I was an amateur then and didn't catch enough coyotes to really tell much difference - a couple dozen before I wised up and switched to bigger traps. Now I'm a RANK amateur (which means me and my truck tends to have a bit of trapper- rankness to it), I've got perhaps a thousand coyotes under my belt, using 5.5 inch jawspread traps, none with shock springs, 10-inch chains and maybe 4 or 5 stake pulling coyotes out of the bunch (thus my earlier guestimate that 1 in 200 coyotes have pulled the stakes). I don't know if that's considered a long or short chain.
I do occasionally have coyotes pull grass and duff to the middle and clog the swivels. Don't ever remember losing one because of it.
The purpose of my post is about my crossed stakes. The photo at my original post is a bit deceiving, perhaps. The stake partially jacked out is leaning away from the camera and gives a bit of an impression that it's more vertical than it really is. I don't pound them in a perfect cross shape because I want the stakes to penetrate down deep where there's often a compacted layer of soil. Look at this letter X. That's about the usual angle of my stakes.
It's all moot now since we are getting frost in the topsoil so when I set now I switch to Pogo cables. That way I don't have to try to pull a frozen in rebar. Merry Christmas.

[trappnman]

ok........ ?

heres the whole darn point on this debate- TC likes shock springs, because of his methods and equipment he prefers them.

no problem with me on that.

if you have things that can be improved with a shock spring, then by all means you would be a fool not to use them..

but by the same token, if you do not have any of the problems that shock springs cure, then you would be a fool to add them.

TC insists that no matter what, no matter the conditions or the methods that they add value to a set-

and that's the crux of the matter, and its practical in so many ways- if it ain't broke, don't fix it

that's its a finite application- A, B & C are things addressed by shock springs- if A, B, and C don't exist- then there is NO benefit to the addition-

possum- the wider the X, the better the holding power. Ideally- the strongest connection would be made with 2 almost horizontal stakes, When cross staking, I like 45 degree angle, and sometimes even less.

I went to crossstaking after loosing a couple with single stakes, then crossstaked by having more vertical angles- figuring the 2 stakes were the key but after loosing a couple coyotes in traps where I know, the angles were close to 60-70% I went to really making the angles

since those lessons 25 years ago and more I never lost a coyote with cross stakes

and I often crossstake coon in pure loose sand bottoms, with angles at I bet 20%- just skimming under the sand a 3-5 inches but they are SOLID

[trappincoyotes39]

Sorry that's my story and I'm stickin to it

Have a good Christmas and yes for my needs I'll stick with the shocks springs and I'm NO fool...........

I insist?

[bogio]

I run shock springs on all my coyote traps. They are getting some age on them and I have seen several of these this year.



My chain setups are 30 to 36 inches long and I like them that way. After an unfortunate stake pumping incident several years ago every set gets two 24" rebars. I don't think I've seen one jacked up even an inch since then. Nothing but Sterling swivels. They will handle far more trash than any universal style.

[trappincoyotes39]

Agree the sterling swivels are great. Switch to JC 's springs you want have that issue of sprung springs.

[bogio]

This style of spring has served me well for quite a few years and are considerably cheaper cost wise. I'll try a few of J.C.'s to see how they compare. I feel that with the length of chains I'm using the springs are beneficial but agree with Steve that they would have little value on very short chains.

Steve
Do you not experience any problems with mounding and fouling with those short chains? When I first started trapping canines, fox mainly, my traps were setup with 8 inches of chain including 2 universal swivels. Too many times the animal and trap were on top of a mound of debris with little movement or the chain was reduced to a hemp rope from vegetation fowling. With the longer chains there is no mounding to speak except for badgers and the Sterling swivels, due to their longer rivet shanks and greater clearances are almost impossible to foul.

Possum
Do you lack confidence in the pogo's holding ability prior to the onset of freezing conditions? I'm surprised to see you have stakes being jacked up when double staked. Are they pounded tight in the bottom of the bed below ground level? Fellow on another site has multiple pictures of coyotes with stakes jacked up. He's using a single 30 inch smooth rod stake and seems unconcerned even though some appear to be almost half way out of the ground. Gives me the willys just looking at them.

As far as the rank part goes, the back of my truck at this point looks and smells like a rendering truck and the garage leaves Sooze weezing and breathing through her fingers.

[trappincoyotes39]

I'm sure you will find JC's superior to that of a heavy door spring. they have the metal T's as support and would be very difficult for most coyote's to cause any damage what so ever. they cost 2.25 each I'm betting your door springs are at least 1.00 each? double the cost- many times the wear and tear and they are inline.

If your trapping in snow I would never use a short chain frozen mounding bad deal. Your other points I have found the same, short chains fouled swivels and something I don't want either.

[trappnman]

bogio- yes and no. Yes, in that I do occasionally have it, but no in that it doesn't occur enough to have any problem with it.

And when I mean occassionally, I mean very rarely. If one goes back over my pics, the chains are extended.

perhaps if I had more fox, or more wet weather during a typical season, it would occur more, but as of now, no.

TC, I think its silly for ME, to carry more chain, shockspring, this and that when doing so, corrects nothing, FOR ME

[bogio]

I've been remaking sets as we had heavy rain followed by snow and freezing temps. I'm substituting in clean traps in any sets that have made catches as there is quite a bit of rust forming. Some sets have made multiple catches. I have yet to find a stake that is backed out ANY. Possum, what do you think is getting yours started up so that the chain can get wrapped on it to start jacking? Loose soil type?

[Possum]

I posted something about the short chains in high "trash" area and having big piles of duff at the catch site, but it must have not gone through. Basically, it happens, but I don't ever remember having a giant pile of duff and an empty trap. It happens when setting in corn stubble or areas that were really weedy. Funny you mentioned the chain becoming hemp rope. I made a set on a ditchbank this year which had been mowed-maybe in August or September when the weeds growing there were tall. Caught a nice coyote. The trap chain was a tangled mess of stuff. As I pulled and cut off the stuff, I noticed a lot of it was hair like. Enough that I went to the coyote and checked to see if the coyote had a bald spot I didn't notice where it had rolled on it enough to pull out a patch of hair. The coyote looked perfect. Odd. So I pondered more, then realized I'd made the set in a "ditchweed" or wild marijuana patch that had been mowed down. The trap chain really had been turned into a hemp rope!
The jacking that started this post is not common. Like I said earlier, maybe one in 200 catches. What I presume happens is the coyote digs randomly and the 1 in 200 manages to get a loop of chain around the top of one of the stakes. I do have rather sandy soil. Once the loop of chain is on the stake, it pumps out the stake. The rest is foreseeable.
I only resort to Pogos because I trap exclusively out of a truck. I can pound in and pull crossed stakes more quickly than installing and pulling Pogos. After the "deep-freeze" I can walk away from a Pogo/cable stake, need be, with little remorse. Sometimes I go back after them in the spring.

[bogio]

Possum wrote:
" So I pondered more, then realized I'd made the set in a "ditchweed" or wild marijuana patch that had been mowed down. The trap chain really had been turned into a hemp rope!"

Gives new meaning to "this is how I roll".