Lessons

[Possum]

There's a couple of lessons in this photo. First, as I arrived I noticed one of my crossed stakes was about 1/3 pulled. Once every year or so a coyote pulls one of my stakes then pumps the other and is gone. I always wondered how they did it. This one tells the tale. The chain of the trap is caught on or wrapped on the top of the stake. I always thought it odd or nearly impossible that a coyote would be smart enough to know pulling a stake with its teeth was the road to freedom. Now I see it's just blind luck.

The other thing, harder to see, was the nearer coyote had some tufts of hair pulled on its butt and back. I initially thought it was from flopping around on the stake. When skinning, a different scenario emerged. Perhaps these coyotes were hunting together, perhaps the near one came first and got caught. Anyway, once in the trap, the far coyote put a wupp'n on him. Bite marks all over the back legs and rump! Then it found the other trap and both doggies were in the same boat.

[Nick C]

Are you sure there wasnt a third coyote who did the biting?

And are you switching over to cable stakes now?

[trappnman]

I have to say, I've never lost one that was double staked. what length stakes are you using and I'm assuming they are rebar (ribbed) and not smooth? I put into the classic X shape, I've hardly ever had a stake even startung to come out.

one never knows about that biting and hair pulling. I think its both another coyote, and the same coyote as I've had hair tuffs and even bare tails, on snow, where its a fact no other coyote was present.

Dogs and even people pull hair under stress, not much of a leap to believe coyotes do it as well on occasion. Having said that, I've seen evidence where one could "guess" it ws NOT self inflected.

[Possum]

Like I say, losing a coyote due to a pulled stake is quite rare, perhaps one in 200 or so. I use rebar mostly but I do have some 1/2 rolled steel stakes I made out of scrap steel years ago. When pulling the stakes, both seem to grip the dirt about the same. This one was the first catch in that set. The other trap in the background had 2 previous catches and no restaking. My stakes are mostly 18-inchers.
I've used cables (Pogos) but since I'm set for double stakes, have lots of them and trap out of a truck, I just stick with them.

[trappincoyotes39]

A few observations. 18" even crossed staked in anything less than solid soils I would worry myself. I had two lengths of re bar 24" and 32" depending on soils. I cross staked most sets some one clearly did not need to.

Next I would look into shock springs as I have used them the biggest advantage I have found with them is the wear and tear they take away at the anchor point no matter what one is using for an anchor. I noticed about zero movement of the stake heads once I started using shock springs. Having 3 day checks in SD I kept searching for better systems to ensure solid holds through the years. I also found a free double swivel at the anchor point to be a great advantage as well. By either using the sterling tear drop dbl stake connector or JC Conners chestnut rings both had a good swivel and the entire trap could rotate off of that double swivel.

I did use the swivels as a way to stake after using the mentioned connectors I No longer did the staking through the swivel body it self, as you basically loose that swivel in that manner.

I now use 95% Pogos in forest and farm ground and they work excellent. Never a budge and by using the added hardware at the anchor point things of this nature are non existent anymore.

FWIW anyhow. Nice dbl by the way.

[TRay]

Losing 1 out of 200 hundred or so is not very good, I cross stake with 20" smooth rod all the time and have never had a problem. It looks like in your picture you have short chains on those traps, which may be part of the problem, with a longer chained trap it would take off the stress off the stakes.

[trappincoyotes39]

Hey, Tray glad to see you posting! I hope things are going good for you guys! I hear coyote numbers are exploding out in SD, I guess a certain "few" are getting thier wish LOL.

[Possum]

Tray: I hope you knocked on wood when you typed your note. About the time you say "never" when coyote trapping, expect the unexpected!

[TRay]

Possum, your probably right I should never say never. I have staked for coyotes this way for years including in the Sandhills where I can push and pull stakes by hand and disposables don't hold with no problems. I think smooth rod also helps as it allows the double stake ring to slide a little without catching or camming on the stake like it would with rebar. TC is right that using a shock spring would probably greatly reduce the stress on your staking system.

[trappnman]

I think that the biggest error in cross staking, is to not X them

perhaps the method of cross staking matters as well- I always used the double couplers, which gives you that nice X effect

While a shock spring might help in certain conditions, I know for me that its not needed with short chains, IF you have the stakes set correctly

[trappincoyotes39]

A shock spring helps reguardless of chain length they can get pretty much zero shock on any setup used. The draw back is the size in bedding but I have learned how to bed them under the jaw and the positives are there to warrant the exspense and time for me.

JC's are the best of the best IMO.

[thebeav2]

How would one cross stake with out forming them In a X shape?

[trappnman]

both more or less straight down- or if in a hurry, its easy to get one angled and one mostly vertical. Thats where the couplers are nice, they are angled to give you the right angles with the stakes

TC- a shockspring has absolutely ZERO value with short chained traps. All it is is something extra to bury. I don't run many w/springs, but a few.

name me ONE advantage a shockspring gives you, with 6-8 inches of chain.

and don't tell me you don't use that short a chain- cause thats the whole point-

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman I don't want that short of chain. I want more swivel action than what 6" of chain will afford for various reasons. The shock spring is 4" on it's own. I have explained why I like longer chains than 6" . They don't need to be 2 or 3 ft with a shock spring to see the advantages either though.

[trappnman]

t'man: "and don't tell me you don't use that short a chain- cause thats the whole point-"

TC- "I don't want that short of chain"



yes, I understand that- but that has no bearing on my conviction that on a short chain which I love, a shockspring is of no value whatsoever, and that indeed its a negative in a couple of ways

[trappincoyotes39]

Short chain is also a negative in a couple of ways too. At least from my point of view thru the years.......

[trappnman]

yes, there are negatvies- and depending on your conditions the negatives might well outweigh the advantages. primarily scrapping duff into center and fouling swivels- but with my weater contions and soil types, it doesn't happen often enough to matter. keep in mind, not advocating that size chain, but on the 1.75 it was the perfect option, and as such, my original point of shocksprings don't always add value, is still valid

on the montanas, its longer than that- whatever stock is

[trappincoyotes39]

They still add value if possum is getting rebar pulled on short chains, as the spring will absorb a lot of that from happing, I still would say go to longer stakes even though cross pegging. Yet with short chains and stake pumping I would opt for the shock springs..........

[Wright Brothers]

I have a whopping ONE shock springed trap.
Today I pulled a group of sevin including the one.
The "one" needed the puller while others did not.
I was shocked lol.
I'm not going out spending a bunch of money one extra gear, but that opened my eyes a little.
Try it some time, sise by side same soil.

Speaking of soil,,, well youns know, depends.

[trappnman]

who would single stake a short chained trap? I don't, and no one that uses rebar on short chained traps does after any coyotes at all. and for those that want short chains but not rebar- disposibles of course.

as far as possums problem- I can see from the pic, that at least one stake, is not at a very good angle for crossstaking- exactly what I stated in earlier posts about making sure you have a good X with your stakes.

I don;t care what anyone asys- practical knowledge shows me that shocksprings have value on long chains, esp if single staking- but on short chains, any value the spring gives, is negated by the length of the chain

so tell me (on traps that are properly anchored) WHAT value a shockspring gives- cause I'd like to know cause I sure cannot see it on the line.

perhaps I should come at this from a different direction- what IS the value of shocksprings? in other words- what do they DO?

WB- if you could pull the traps by hand, I'd look more towards why the others didn't stick.