The fun times I have now!

[kellogg]

Dec 13, 2012 9:49:19 GMT -6 blackhammer said:

I have or see no proof so I stand behind my opinion. Anything is possible including me dating a Victoria Secret model. lol But there is a point were I believe chances are so low you don't consider it . Now if facts come in that make me reconsider the dp factor I of course would..

If you ever do date the victoria secret model I would need to see a picture for proof.

[trappnman]

lets look at this from another angle.....

I've never caught anything but coon in dp traps- however, I've only used three types- gravity lock so to speak and dukes & grizs

never a push pull.

so I cannot speak from personal experience their worth or not- can only say, I've not had the problem's many of you report with the traps robbed of bait, no catches when worked etc- so quite honestly, for me a push pull is tinkering with something that doesn't need tinkering with.

however, that's neither here nor there- I fully understand that others have different experiences, and feel a push trigger is a real advantage. I do however feel the type of trap s unimportant- they all work, and they all work pretty much the same. to choose one over another (by a coon) seems far fetched to me if taken over time and lots and lots of traps out.
but again, all my opinion and neither here nor there.

but I think the issue needs to be looked at, and discussed- and that is ARE push pull traps as dog proof as just pulls?

Again, no personal experience but a couple of people I know, both taking 500+ coon and running a lot of DPs- told me they had caught dogs- 1 had caught 1, the other 2.

I have no reason to disbelieve them. and I should also point out- both went to the push/pull and absolutely loved them over the push only. FWIW- I think the reason some have trouble with pull only, is the size of the average coon-

and both also reported other incidental catches went up as well- but neither had any plans or desire to go back.

so were those 2 just very unlucky- shite happens?

or are the push pulls, although wonderful on coon, and certainly are more dog proof than 1.5s- truly dog proof traps?

in other words- I set grizs with pull, in farm yards with small yappy dogs and cats- knowing I'm pretty safe and so far, have been.

could i honestly do the same with push/pulls?

[bobafett]

I'm not gonna argue push/pull but i will say if you have a choice between ztraps and dukes and there the same price you would be nuts to take the Dukes. The Z is way more bang for the buck. Heck the Z can easily be switched to pull only by blocking off the notch on the dog.

[trappincoyotes39]

I don't have small yappy dogs, I have normal sized and large dogs most people I know don't allow small yappers to run about very far from the yard bad things can happen to small dogs left to roam free.

I'm setting trails to and from a food source and to the trees and holes they are using, not up on the farmers front lawn.

500+ coons and 1 dog caught in how many years use? This dog was caught where? The farmers front lawn?

I don't think any trap could be stated as 100% so given either you have one that is 99% dog proof or one that is 99.8% dog proof what is really the differance?

Yet there are advanatges to one over the other when looking at DP's. As stated some give you more bang for the buck and have better efficantcy.

[trappnman]

as some stated, some like one trap over the other.

[blackhammer]

Dec 14, 2012 9:30:44 GMT -6 bobafett said:

I'm not gonna argue push/pull but i will say if you have a choice between ztraps and dukes and there the same price you would be nuts to take the Dukes. The Z is way more bang for the buck. Heck the Z can easily be switched to pull only by blocking off the notch on the dog.

Guys can out produce and then tell me the z trap is better. Very few are doing that. Push, pull is a feel good sales pitch. I'm missing so few coon and the only bait stealing giving me problems is entirely mice.If your using the right bait the Dukes are as good or better than any dp. Heck this dp trapping makes it so any retard can catch a few coon. Although a couple of guys trapping around me set 120 z traps and I believe got three or was it two coon in a day early season.

[trappnman]

x2

[trappincoyotes39]

Black hammer No offense but not a sales pitch if you have a 1 way pull only fulcrum versus a 2 which is going to be easier to move upon contact?

You say the right bait in a duke, with push pull it really doesn't matter "what" bait you use. Outside of edible is better, but I have caught plenty using non edible in the daggers as well. If they committ to reaching for it the push/pull nabs them, that simple. Large for "size" circle trigger covers more of the tube area than a single lever.

The daggers I like also working on 45 degrees and not semi circle, then add in the welded bar and makes for a very strong solid hold with these traps.

Yes the DP's have made coon trapping easier and more efficant no doubt I see nothing wrong with that. The word "retard" though could have been left out! Use what you will, but to say some aren't a better design over others? I see things differently at that point.

Cost wise they are close, so for the little extra I'm going with the bells and whistles of the daggers, by the time I 2 way trigger dukes I'm real close in price to daggers and I like the fact the daggers are 100% USA made as well for the few extra bucks well worth it to me.

[trappnman]

TC- heres what you need to remember-

if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

heard that many a time growing up

read what blackhammer posted-

I'm missing so few coon and the only bait stealing giving me problems is entirely mice.If your using the right bait the Dukes are as good or better than any dp.

it ain't broke.

its like the old shockspring debate- shocksprings, under certain conditions are an advantage- but if those conditions are lacking, and you aren't damaging or loosing coyotes- then it has NO advantage, and indeed, can become a liability of sorts.

I started using a few Grizs before they even came on the market- I'm not a big user, but I dabble with a few each year. My experiences mirror blackhammers- bait stealing was of no issue (advantage of liquid) and I wasn't missing (I guess missing would have to be defined as either coon traps all over and trap knocked down unfired, or a catch circles and no coon) enough coon to document or matter.

again- and I'm shocked no one brings this up- I think is all boils down to your AVERAGE sized coon-

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman with that old saying "it ain't broke why fix it" you wouldn't have technology in much of anything! Everyone trys to build the better proverbial "mouse trap". Some do a great job others simply copy another design!

Tman with the dagger it isn't about the avg sized coon, I have caught 5 lb dinks to 26 lb coons and all in between again it comes back to push/pull and trigger design! Not bait type or size of coon, that I call efficantcy.

His "KEY" was the right bait. Why limit yourself to the "right" bait? You can use many edible and some non edible baits with the Dagger and still get great results, you add efficantcy sorry that is just a fact. Now many have down played the 2 way triggers and the daggers as being more of a sales gimic, a dog catching machine compaired to other DP's, when simply they are in my mind and in many others, "the better built mouse trap"!

Again use what you wish really, but when some have never used the Dagger and want to downplay it as a " gimic" or no better? Hard to understand that? I just received another 2 dozen of these fine traps one used and one dz new. That gives me 6 dozen total now. These will become my main stay for coon trapping, because of the benfits not some so called gimmic's............. The kids can use them and I can be very fast when setting these, best of both worlds.

Last time I will add the benefits to show the better built apsects.

1. Can Pre set on a solid notch
2. a sq versus circle and the catch bar inside the tube= solid holds
3. The trigger I find to be better than a straight bar, more surface area covering the bait= less bait stealing by coons of any size!
4. The 2 way trigger I find a big value
5. Made in the USA!
6. Easy to clean out
7. Good soild chain and swivels
8. cost is good for american made!
9. Well built all welded construction.
10. Use any edible bait, if they reach to grab it there caught push or pull!!!!

Now go pile up coons or have fun and use any DP that suits your fancy! It is all about the time spent and trapping!!!!!!!

[blackhammer]

Dec 15, 2012 8:11:50 GMT -6 trappincoyotes39 said:

Black hammer No offense but not a sales pitch if you have a 1 way pull only fulcrum versus a 2 which is going to be easier to move upon contact?

You say the right bait in a duke, with push pull it really doesn't matter "what" bait you use. Outside of edible is better, but I have caught plenty using non edible in the daggers as well. If they committ to reaching for it the push/pull nabs them, that simple. Large for "size" circle trigger covers more of the tube area than a single lever.

The daggers I like also working on 45 degrees and not semi circle, then add in the welded bar and makes for a very strong solid hold with these traps.

Yes the DP's have made coon trapping easier and more efficant no doubt I see nothing wrong with that. The word "retard" though could have been left out! Use what you will, but to say some aren't a better design over others? I see things differently at that point.

Cost wise they are close, so for the little extra I'm going with the bells and whistles of the daggers, by the time I 2 way trigger dukes I'm real close in price to daggers and I like the fact the daggers are 100% USA made as well for the few extra bucks well worth it to me.

Retard was a little strong. I should have said any kid or farmer can go out and catch a few coon with dps. Legholds it's a whole different ballgame and even 220 you must learn blocking,finding the right trails and avoiding nontargets. I personally thought after seeing maybe thousands of dps sold at the nationals this year that the coon catch would be very high. The coon population in what seems to be a decline nationwide puzzles me. I don't think it all is drought related. Maybe there will be more coon caught than most think bit I doubt it.

[trappnman]

TC- go outside and give your truck a valve job- I'll guarantee it will run better and save you gas

no?

why not?

it ain't broke?

what is so hard to understand, that YOU prefer one trap, and others prefer another, and that operator influenced?

Charlie Brown once told lucy- those that cannot dance, often blame the dance floor. some things work for some better, others find other things to work better-

I could give a long list of reasons I prefer other traps, and my reasoning is just as valid.

bottom line, what it comes down to- is that they ALL are about the same- little things here and there but the concept and the purpose, is the same.

I, and blackhammer, and 100s if not 1000s of guys- don't HAVE the "problems" you needed to solve. not saying you are doing it wrong, just that you perhaps have different methods than others-
as far as "right bait" vs any bait- wrongo- any bait is NOT going to give you the success the RIGHT one can and does- any coon trapper worth his salt, has long found what works best for them, and thats what they use- experimenting is long in the rear view mirror

[trappincoyotes39]

I have heard distemper has claimed many coons in pockets of the coon belt. I haven't seen that yet down my way, even with being 17" below normal precip for the year. With all the little guys we have been catching. Coyotes are starting to mange down this way but that is common when you have so many of the buggars around like we have in many areas.

Sure I am Tman a few seasons of use. In NW SD I didn't spen my time coon trapping, I took time for a few bobcats each winter others wise all coyote work and deer dep work. I was focused on doing my job the best I could.

Now that I have moved to where coons are the main stay I trap them for fun and a few bucks. Doesn't mean in the last few season's I can't come to conclusion using them as much as I have. I can use them longer than the north because of weather and have seen plenty of coons caught in them to form an educated opinion on them. 40+ of them out and they have taught me a few things over my dozen dukes, they just have.

You dabble with them, they are my trap of choice for coons. I can mix them in easy with canine footholds and work for me.

Your engine analogy is off topic but so be it. Your talking tune up I'm talking selection. If I'm pulling a horse trailor or a hay wagon would the larger engine be better? Sure it would. More efficant correct?

That is what trap choice is, a selection to choose from that the best suits ones needs and adds efficantcy.

Bait- coons are omniverous and I can put many things down a dagger on location and catch coons with it! I choose certian baits because ease of use and calling power again a choice for a reason.

Yet the coons I have taken from a dumpster I have caught with varying baits and lures in daggers, I mean they are going through trash not too selective and when I pound in 4-5 daggers along the hwy path leading from the woods to the dumpster they have been caught on a few different things.

Edible baits is a key to make them really work but again I have caught them on shellfish oil with a push pull trigger. Why? Just to see if I could No other reason.

I'll keep on keepin on and if someone ask what trap I prefer I'll tell them what and why. I don't fit the "if it ain't broke don't fix it type. I'm more of an experamentor to see if something better is out there. All about efficantcy for me.

I agree you spend more time/ methods setting a foothold or 220 and in my state 220's are not legal on land unless suspended in a tree or submerged so don't need to bother with them.

The Daggers are my ticket!

[trappnman]

dnr, state parks around- have told me they have seen lots of disptemper coon, and some of those confirmed. my coon catch is way down, 90% big boars.

[bogio]

Not to not pick but:

EFFICIENT

EFFICIENTLY

EFFICIENCY

[trappnman]

its right on the money TC- you cannot deny, that doing a good tuneup and including valves would make your truck more efficient, save you money, run cleaner, etc

but you don't do it, because for you, you see no need since it "ain't broke"

I see the Griz- as NOT BROKE

I see the push only trigger- as NOT BROKE

I see the shape of the tube, etc- as NOT RELEVANT

but speaking of bad analogies- of course coon are omnivorous, but that has nothing to do with them PREFERRING certain baits or lures. and I can tell you after 40 years of coon trapping, that a few of these, are far superior to the others- and I've caught coon on tin foil, marshmallows, donuts, grease, fish, rats on and on and yes on.

with your amount of traps, you are no more than a dabbler yourself- but again besides the point

one last try to steer you towards the point:

you like one trap because: it catches coon, while the other traps are cleaned out by coon, or tripped and missed coon. correct?

leave out any personal likes or dislikes on construction- that's all in the eye of the beholder- for example, I think seldom's method of skinning coyotes is a waste of my efficiency, he feels the exact opposite, and we are both right in its what works best for US.

another example is skinning mink- some use a holder, I find it far, far faster to not use anything to grip or clamp, and in the time you clamp, etc I'd be half done. but again, that's ME and how many I've skun, and how i skin, etc. When someone tells me its easier and/or faster for them, I have no doubt it IS.

Different strokes based on different criteria, circumstances

so how its mounted, or how many links the chain has, etc are all not relevant- the only thing that is- does one trap give you problems (for whatever reason, I stated my thoughts on that earlier) and does another trap, solve it.
if so- use them

but- and this is a big important BUT- if one does NOT have similar problems- reread what blackhammer said that I dittoed- then WHY change, just to change (fixing things not broke)?

[trappincoyotes39]

who said anything about changing? I gave my points as to why I like one over the other, I NEVER told anyone to change.

If you think coons will by pass a bait that is edible when inches away from him then you do............

Use what you will, I merely pointed out why I like one over the other. You can call me a dabbler so be it, I don't need 500 of them to be considered knowledgeable in their use I just don't. It is the number of coons caught in what you have as a tool that matters and how they perform.

If it matters to YOU then so be it, but I have gone 4 for 4 and 5 for 5 on daggers in setting on a location that is 100% catch ratio on a 24hr check good enough for me.




I'm done this one has more than run it's course I would say.

Sorry Bogio spelling isn't my strong suit LOL. I guess I can use spell checker more......


PS Tman if car makers used the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" line of thought we wouldn't have fuel injection which is an improvement as it burns the fuel more efficiently and gives you better MPG over a carb in the first place and it also with the advent of such and better fuels that a valve job isn't needed as the gain would be little unless they are leaking or tons of carbon build up

[trappnman]

dabbles not a bad word- don't be offended by it- I mentioned the same term applying to myself

If you think coons will by pass a bait that is edible when inches away from him then you do............

but now my friend, you have really opened up a can of worms. I don't know about MO coon, or any coon but SE Mn coon, but I'll tell you for a FACT that coon many, many times in winter do indeed go by edible baits even to thep oint on frozen traps to take that bait (fish for excample) and DROP it inches away from the set- the smell (of the good lure I use) attracted them- food wasn't a concern.

Coon are very finicky at times- when one preferred food source is "in season" make it berries or plums or sweet corn etc- they will walk by other food sources literally miles to return to the preferred food. In addtion, coon coming out of semi hibernation for a day or two, often have zero interest in food.

In my opinion, and I've walked the walk on coon, one of the biggest myths of coon (besides they don't travel on snow) is that they are gluttons and always hungry, always feeding- and that is true, only at certain times of the year.

another myth is edible bait- if I wanted the coon to sit down and eat a meal before being caught, I'd say sure, got to use edible baits- but some of the best coon baits I've used, and certianly the best lures I've used, are not even close to being edible

Where the nose goes, the tummy doesn't always follow

[blackhammer]

I have seen countless times an edible piece of carp laying on the bank ten feet from the pocket uneaten. I do think they will eat fresh ground up fish must of the time. Why they just carry the chucked carp a few feet and leave it I don'y know. Another aspect with the dp I believe the coon just can't resist putting their hand in the trap and feeling around. The dp appeals to the very nation of the coon. I have heard of pet coon playing with bars of soap. There curiosity and habit of feeling aroung things comes into play. I have seen in the snow were a coon played with a shotgun shell casing.

[trappnman]

I concur- I personally think thats why pvc pockets are such good winter coon sets- the coon can satisfy his nose from the bank- but to look into and feel into that pipe, he has to get into the water.

pet coon we had was always feeling around, pointing his paw out of the wire pen to fiddle with this or that- a friend had a pet house coon, only defecated outside, and he was always poking into things. He would go to the cookie jar, open it up and take a cookie, or loved to sit on Rays shoulder, reach down and take out his smokes, take one out and play with it.

Ray raised hounds, and had a real good cur that everyone wanted for top dollar- Ray wouldn't sell him (this was fur boom days, and hound prices were sky high as well) until one day, the pet coon went into his pen, and was killed before Ray could stop it. He went into the house, called a guy, and sold the dog within hours- thats how much he liked that little guy.