Full Metal Jacket Trap dip

[seldom]

Oct 5, 2012 19:45:34 GMT -6 trappincoyotes39 said:

Just giving you a hard time. LOL.

I agree with what you posted.

You weenie! You had me on the ropes!!!!! ;D ;D

[ColdSteel]

Got to thinking about the wax I have been using the same pot for at least 5 years just add a little wax here and there.I only dye my traps once a season I mostly just power wash and dip in wax but you boys got me wondering about the wax do I need to start with new wax more often.As far as contamination goes I probably get some I caught the faint odor of skunk today while dying my traps

[seldom]

Oct 5, 2012 20:06:52 GMT -6 ColdSteel said:

Got to thinking about the wax I have been using the same pot for at least 5 years just add a little wax here and there.I only dye my traps once a season I mostly just power wash and dip in wax but you boys got me wondering about the wax do I need to start with new wax more often.As far as contamination goes I probably get some I caught the faint odor of skunk today while dying my traps

Don't we all! I think Steve mentioned some time ago that he uses fresh wax every year which is what I was doing mostly because I'm a little anal about contaminated wax. That being said, I've changed my process of waxing a little. A little assurance can't hurt, can it? . I can say that I don't believe I've ever contaminated my wax to a degree I've seen any interest in my trap instead of my scents but why not try and eliminate the possibility if it doesn't distract from the process and goal?

I normally just sit my wax pot on the burner and have at it. I got to thinking this year (maybe a little over thinking) why not start my melt in a double-boiler so that I didn't take the chance of scalding/burning some of the junk that collects at the bottom of the pot each year when I fired up and stinking up my wax right off the bat!! I thought my logic made sense to me so that's what I'm doing now. Yup, takes longer to get the initial melt but once she's melted I take the pot out of the bath and sit it back on the burner and have at it!! Paranoid? Anal? Damn silly? Maybe, but it made me feel better and that's the only thing that counts!!!;D ;D[/size]

[rk660]

I powdercoated about 300 no 1.5 bridgers last year. although is wearing a little faster than Id like, its. hands down the best trap coating ive found for my needs. It cost a 1.25 in volume.
one thing i wished i would have done, would have been o sandblast them, or acid etch first, for better adheasion. on rat traps, drowning wire traps, conis, it will last a good spell. land traps i think might not last long enough for real benifit of cost it takes.

[CoyoteMan50]

started spray painting my con's with rustolem a few years ago and really like it, but it don't last all that long, but i have heard that the powed coat don't come off, but again I'll just wait to see if the beav has something there or if it was just a tought of his, as soon as the old Trapper gives us some more info about it, where you at Beav, don't make me get out my new hand made Beaver call

[CoyoteMan50]

Thank you rk, I forgot to go to page 2, I do sandblast with fine sand and I think I'll give it a try on a few land Traps, and you have said enough for me to do all my con's and water Traps. I know that I can take your word on this, not saying I would not beleave the Beav, but I know for sure you know what your talking about, Thank's again old buddy, also need to send you a PM. to update my Trapping suppy info as I have moved my shop to a new lowcation, I need to stock up on some of your very fine Trapping produces,

[thebeav2]

Man I'm op to my elbows In venison. Put one down last night and now I have to do a little butchering.

But here goes.

I did a bunch of coyote sized traps 10 years ago. It worked to perfection. I saw no loss of spring strength after the coating.
There has been a little scaring from tooth marks and chewing on the trap but It's pretty minimal. You can buy a touch up liquid to repair the powder coating.
The beauty of the powder coating Is the instant clean up. Just hose them off and they come out just like new shiny traps. The traps also seem to be faster after the powder coating has been applied.
The down side to this Is you need to start out with NEW supper clean traps or you will get a sub par job. so old traps need to be sand blasted or run through a bath of muratic acid or maybe both. The bottom line Is to get a GOOD job your traps need to be CLEAN.
I got a deal because my buddy dose a lot of work through this company. I think It was a $1.00 a trap.

Now we can talk about body grips.

I also did about 10 doz Bridger 160s. Here's where I think powder coating shines. Since you get very little wear from animals being caught In body grips I think your traps could last forever and clean up Is quick and easy with hosing down and your good to go.
The powder coating really speeds up closing time on the traps. And I really haven't seen any wear where the spring eyes rub along the jaws.
The problem I ran Into was that I left the traps In the set position when I had them done and I lost a noticeable amount of spring strength. They still kill coon but are quite a bit weaker. I never had any more done but I think If you were to leave the traps In the sprung position I don't think you would have any problems.
My advice Is to take some traps of choice and have one of each done and see how you like It.

All In all I think It's the way to go anyway I like the results.

[CoyoteMan50]

Thanks Beav, I'm sold on it, but still will go into it one toe at a time, with all the year after after year of work this would save why can i just tair Traps down and do each part, whats your thought on that Beav, come on now stop playing around with that speedBeef and lets talk TRAP, TRAP, TRAP, or rember we will remove your caster's & oil sack's hey all jokeing a side, Thank you very much Sir for all this info, very much appresheated or how ever you spell it, you know what I mean,

[thebeav2]

I think It's totally unnecessary to take the trap apart to have It powder coated. But If you feel It's the way to go then go for It. I do believe that It will probably cost you more money per trap If you go that route.

[trappnman]

first of all, we have had the discussion on whether dye adds protection to a trap, and at the time, I thought the concenous was, based on the very practical application of science, that the chemicals in dye, DO penetrate the steel and DO add a measure of extra protection for the trap.

the only question is enough to matter, and myself personally, I feel yes- but more to the point-most boil traps- it takes zero extra effort and zero extra time, to include dye in the boiling process.

Seldom, If I said that about the wax, it was many years ago- I have reused wax for many years, replacing the whole works every 5 yers or so

as far as poweder coatng- have had things poweder ocated, just never rtaps. But pay attention to what rk said- LAST year, he powedercoated RAT TRAPs and a year later, he finds its wearing faster than he would like. After a year.

any land trap that gets much use, gets far, far more abuse than a rat trap does- so how long would it really lasr, if land trapping was your goal?

Re other coatings- I've caught 100+ coyotes in a season with speed dip, and have done close to the same with F-1.

but even with that success, you could SEE problems occurring.

so one jan, I tried this: took traps that had been coated (both Speed dip and others with f-1) in sept, not used, and set them out during extrem cold, with a regular dry snowfall so traps were covered almost nighhtly by a frsh dusting of dry snow.

the digging at th trap I saw with those traps, was appalling. I used those traps 2 weeks- caught a few coyotes but was not pleases.

pulled those traps, then a week later reset the SAME sets with dyed and waxed traps- an bingo- thenonsense stopped.

since that day, all my canine traps are dyed and waxed, becasue I have seen the direct results in direct tests- the difference in how they are worked, vs dye/wax, and I'll not go away from dye/wax again.

[thorsmightyhammer]

conibears and powdercoating is the only way to go as far as I'm concerned.

I've got some 330's I did probably 4 maybe 5 years ago and I dont know when I'll have to redo them.

I did 10 dozen rat traps last year, cost me a buck and a quarter and I'm pretty close to selling the rest of my traps and doing them all that way. They only drawback is I'd have to re pinch pan all the new ones unless I go bridger.

Hardest thing for me on traps is trapping inside the huts for three months as far as the dye is concerned. Most of my traps(other than the powder coated ones) were devoid of any form of dye come this spring. The bog water and some of the alkali water eats pretty much anything off. Add in the fact that the trap is in a wet dry cycle almost every day and they can rust up pretty good. None of that with the powder coat.

[trappnman]

its got to be your water- my water traps are under water for 3 months every year, and whatever dye is on them at beginning of year is dye thats on them at end of year

I coat water traps every 3-4 years, usually with speed dip or somesuch cause on water, it holds up as well as I want or need it to.

it is interesting though about water traps- I grew up literally next door to some of the best known and biggest rat marshes around, grew up along side many trappers back then, and no one dyed or waxed water traps- there was simply no need- they got that hard brown rust, and they were good year after year and decade after decade- i'm still using #1 from that era on gophers, and they are in same shape today, as they were 50 years ago.

[CoyoteMan50]

well I thank you both, Steve and 49er, but it is mostley cons that I am looking to inprove on, I have always like trap prep dye/wax just before sessons starts, it just adds to the hole game of it all for me, but anyway thank all of you for the id and info, it gives me something to play with anyway,

[thebeav2]

Like I said before about powder coating, Is that you need A perfectly CLEAN trap to get long lasting results. Did RK have perfectly clean traps? If the powder coating on his rat traps started to fade after one season then there was a problem with trap before powder coating or It was a poor job of powder coating.
I have powder coated 160s that have been In the Field for over 10 years during the coon season and I can see NO wear on them whats so ever. Like I said on my coyote traps you can see tooth marks In the powder coating but no visible wear to the coating It's self. Now granted those traps haven't been used all that hard over the last few years. but the beauty of powder coating Is that with a few swipes of the power washer your traps are clean and once dry you can just wax and your good to go. And for that reason you can clean and re wax during the season. I can take traps out of the ground power wash them that day and wax that night and have them back In the ground the next day you can't do that If your going to boil dye and wax a trap during mid season. The powder coating just gives you that slick finish that allows you to clean that trap with minimum of labor.

In my opinion dye Is a total wast of time. Dye doesn't adhere to a trap unless you first let the trap get rusty. Dye Is just a cosmetic covering It really doesn't give you any form of protection.
I also know that dye adds another smell to your traps. To prove a point open a bag of dye and smell It. Same when your adding dye to your boiling water. You can defiantly smell that dye. And then your adding that smell to your traps and your wax. We all know that once you pull out the traps from the dye solution and you let the traps dry before waxing that the trap once dry has a residue build up on the trap. That residue Is added to your wax when you wax your traps. And after a few seaons your wax has turned just about black from the dye residue. Contaminated wax In my opinion. Sure you can wash off that dye residue before waxing but your never going to get It all.

The point being we want to put a trap In the ground that has a minimum of odors so why are we adding a bunch of foreign odors to our tarps ?

[thorsmightyhammer]

Traps will rust less if they are under water most of the time then if they are like mine when they are dunked and than set high and dry in teh oxygen.

When I trapped in the fall I had little problems with rust. In the winter if I dont have something protecting the dog and the pan post the tension from rust build will become so much the rat may not set the trap off.

No doubt though part of it is the alkali in some of the swamps.

[seldom]

Seldom, If I said that about the wax, it was many years ago- I have reused wax for many years, replacing the whole works every 5 yers or so

Ya, that must have been what I was remembering but incorrectly.

[thebeav2]

Same with trapping with stools or floats your traps are out of the water most of the time until you make a catch. Traps that are under water all of the time don't get a chance to rust, rust Is caused by metal subjected to moist conditions and AIR.

A real authentic muzzle loader Is BROWNED not Blued. It's a procces where your continually subjecting the metal to moister and air. When I did mine I made sure there was no oil on the metal In fact I used carbon Tech to de grease It then I placed the barrel In the bath room with a hot shower going the barrel rusted right away then you polished the steel and repeated the procces until you had a even hard coat of RUST. In the end with a light coat of oil your barrel was pretty much rust proof. And that's what happens to traps over the long haul.

[trappnman]

In my opinion dye Is a total wast of time. Dye doesn't adhere to a trap unless you first let he trap get rusty. Dye Is just a cosmetic covering It really doesn't give you any form of protection.


opinions are ok, but facts override opinions- and the fact is the acids in dye DO penetrate metal. That discussion was had, and proved.

[thebeav2]

Rust Is oxidation of metal. It forms minute craters In the surface of the metal. Sure the dye lays In these minute craters but It Isn't actually penetrating the metal. If IT did penetrate metal you could take a brand new trap degrease It and It would take the dye . But It doesn't do that, you first have to create a pitted surface for the dye to adhere to the metal. If dye actually penetrated the metal you wouldn't have to re dye every year or for that matter through out the season. Since we all know that after a few catches most of your so called protective coatings are gone and there goes any temporary protection.
By God man you can take a pressure washer and completely remove any dye that was put on that trap. So that tells me It Isn't penetrating Into the metal.

I still stand by my statement that dye Is worthless and It's just a cosmetic covering. But If It makes you feel better then go for It.

[trappnman]

beav- why not do a study on the chemicals in the dye, and how its reacts with metal- and how those chemicals are used on metal in industry?

the dye DOES penetrate the metal- thats a fact. all the gut feelings in the world, don't change that.

the only question is how much does it do so in the practical way.