TS85s for coyotes?

[redeagle]

Perhaps some of the guys lucky enough to draw a wolf trapping permit this year will us TS85s, and if they happen to catch coyotes in them, they can post their results.

[trappincoyotes39]

when locklear talks about the trap size he's mainly speaking of the kill area, or the larger area the coyote has to potentially put his paw inside the jaw area. the bigger the jaw area the bigger the percentage of actually catching what your after. that's not hard to understand...

To a degree great thinking, taking it to far and you start to loose the benfits of the kill area on other aspects of the trap and hold. Mr Locklear needs to think more about proper sized traps, guiding, set construction as a total package to high efficantcy versus setting the largest trap he can find. Again that is counter productive when you get TOO BIG IMOC...............

whats the upper limit insofar as you lose any additional benefits, and the bigger trap jaw spread becomes a liability?

When you start using a trap that the jaw height takes way the ability to be on or very close to the pad of the foot and the majority of your catches are up on the leg, when your trap gets to be too heavy on the end of what your holding.


If it where all that easy as the larger the spread the better then why not use MB 750's, Bridger 9 wolf traps or 5 sized coil springs as an all around coyote trap? Should efficantcy be higher? I say Nope for the reasons mentioned and a few others.

Again all in my opinion and mine only without any REAL world experiance using them for coyotes period. No need what I use works darn well for ME.

I think Mr Locklear should come on to explain the benefits he see's for these traps and his rec to people of using CDR"s for bobcats as well.

Redeagle not trying to bust on you as you asked a question and I answered MR Locklear made the rec to you and others so he sould be able to back the rec with facts as to why these are a great coyote trap correct?

I would say buy a half doz and try yourself and let us all know your findings as how they worked for YOU in YOUR area. If they work great for you and if not keep them for beaver or sell them on ebay.

[redeagle]

Here's a clip he put on UTube: www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4N2-FWMSis

This video explains his rationale for using big traps.

[trappnman]

for the sake of debate......

well, efficientcy is catching/holding %. One benefit of bigger traps, is the elbow/hock catches I've seen posted here, and perhaps even a few by yourself? Wouldn't bigger, give you closer to 100% on those type of trap entries?

Even on 1.75s, I get coyotes with a full catch, meaning trap is filled and the catch is high up.
for sure, with #3 montanas, I get more catches above the wrist, than below.

so if a trap is properly laminated, heck even add shockspring to further reduce and problems, then where is TOO high?

a #3 bridger is 6 1/2, a #5 is 7 1/4 a 650 is 6 1/8, a 750 is 7 1/4

a 1.75 4 3/4 btw

wheres the line?

and if its not jaw size- then its weight I'd guess-

so I can see too heavy- but lets say they were made out of magic steel, or space age ceramics so they weighed little-

would there then be too big vis a vis jaw size?

how big is a #4 monty? Nick, can you go measure one? In my mind, i've always thought the range for coyote rtaps would be 1.75 on bottom end, #4 on top end- and yes, i do agree with your thoughts on too big- but I have zero experience on them.

I need to point out that for me, I'd only set such big traps when it was 100% coyote only- no domestics, fox, coon, on and on- so for me, A #3 is as big as I want to go, and even then, am using a small #3.

1080- did the montys make a #5 or #6 with jaw spread 71/2 plus, and if so, would you use them? If so why, and if not why not?

[bobbrennan]

I think really you have to look at jaw height not jaw spread if your talking too highof a catch as a cdr is only 3/8 of an inch higher than a 3 bridger and I dont think they are much different in weight if you do the mods. on the bridger. I dont use cdrs but have seen coyotes and cats in them and I think a lot of the problem is in our head! I saw no damage in the few that I saw caught in them! I do understand they dont make a good picture around domestics but 3 bridgers dont either!

[packerfan]

I agree bb. I had a chance to talk to Clint at the NTA this year. It was the first time I met him. Nice guy. Good at marketing. After watching his cat collector video(a few times) I was convinced to use some bigger cat traps in Kansas this season. Good night footage. The CDR's in the video, showed much less damage than my #3 Bridger OS(on cats). The expense alone, would keep most trappers from going too big, too fast. So, I'll start with as many as the budget allows this year. Like bowhunting.....it's not what you get.....it's what you missed.......The trail cam never lies.

[seldom]

I don't have any TS85s but to illustrate the points being made, here is a comparison between a #3 Bridger and a MB750.

[trappincoyotes39]

Look at yout guiding needed for the 750 with that pan for coyotes. Not to mention other factors.

[mostinterestingmanintheworld]

Another thing that I consider in my choice is trap weight. You wouldn't catch me hauling a half dozen of those traps a quarter of a mile up a 40% slope.

Same reason I got rid of hammers, stakes, and as much other heavy shittt as I can.

[redeagle]

The bigger trap won't be much of an advantage unless it has a super-sized pan. The little pan on there now is about the same size as the trap on the left.

[trappincoyotes39]

So buy a big heavy trap and add more weight to it with a super sized pan for coyotes? Some have said they worry about doemstics why would that be? I mean if these traps actually do less damage as per the claim why worry about it?

I can tell you 90% plus of most domestic dogs don;t fight a trap like a wild canine like a coyote.

You have more surface area to clog when less than ideal conditions adding more weight to a super heavy weight trap to begin with. Outcome then changes.

It is great to talk % or efficantcy but does going that large really add to it in the end when you factor in everything? The amount of coyotes on pattern misses I have seen isn't enough to warrant the added weight, cost and fiddeling around with these larger than the norm coyote traps. IMOC.

Been down the road with the larger pans on sterling mj600's didn't take me long to figure out not the way to go for coyotes. I have better success with the standard well centered pans and trap placement and guiding. IMOC

[trappincoyotes39]

I remember catching a calf in a spring pasture and a great mother cow standing there and me out there letting that damn calf loose- oh boy that was a fun deal for sure, me, the calf and my open truck door as armour and one really mad ma cow everytime that calf balled taking a run at me.

Cat trapping one time found me and a buddy releasing a rather large muley doe from a sterling mj 600 as well, another fun morning NO more livestock or deer for me

[seldom]

Aug 27, 2012 17:48:57 GMT -6 redeagle said:

The bigger trap won't be much of an advantage unless it has a super-sized pan. The little pan on there now is about the same size as the trap on the left.

Bridger pan- 2"x3"= 6sq"(the equivalent in a round pan would be a 2.75" dia pan)
MB750 pan- 3"dia= 7sq"
When I took the pic I over-cocked the 750 so the pan is angled toward the camera giving some distortion of size.

[trappincoyotes39]

seldom is your point then that the bridger pan is closely relative to the mb750?

You still have to account for the sq inch differance inside the jaws, that is where it matters for a coyote to place it's foot. You have far more area of concern with the standard sized pan in a 750 than you do the 3 bridger due to more sq inches to cover inside the jaws, the reason I switch out all my stock bridger pans with the PIT pans a better fit inside the jaws N/S and E/W all I need to do is guide him inside the jaws and one firm step and they are mine, same can be said for the sterling and jake as well, pans designed well for the inside surface he could step one firm step and they make these traps go snap.

PIT has seen the same benefit to a lower pan like a jake and small throw, they are now making step down PIT pans. Lower the point of contact the better the hold.

[seldom]

Aug 28, 2012 15:02:19 GMT -6 trappincoyotes39 said:

seldom is your point then that the bridger pan is closely relative to the mb750?
.

When Redeagle mentioned that the size difference I thought I'd give the sq" difference between the two and since the 750's pan wasn't flat, it looked smaller than it really is. My only intent since I didn't have a TS85 but I did have a 750 that had a stock pan.

But since you addressed the pans sizes as well, I find the change of logic from "small is better" of the 70's to the "larger is better" logic of now interesting, especially when the talk goes to "way over-size" pans. Always new philosophies to think about!

That being said, I'm not a good "follower", I consider myself a "free-thinker" and if my observations, experiences, and logic are inline with the "who said it to the greatest magnitude" folk's, fine! If mine differ, cool beans and wish everyone well on their chosen path.

[bobbrennan]

it is my understanding after speaking to clint locklear that he uses the cdr, reason was he felt when useing it he said with the wire levers he felt that it doesnt hold deer,can use an larger pan to increase catch area and did not see as much damage. the other trap he mentioned was a sleepy creek 4 with a large pan. I dont use either but to each there own

[trappincoyotes39]

seldom I too am a free thinker and made my points based on my experiances and each to his own, I don't think Mr Locklear is doing the younger age of trappers any justice when he goes online showing videos to use over sized traps for land trapping. IMOC

Bob B wonder how Mr Locklear thinks a cdr won't hold a deer? If you get it above the hoof in that narrow joint which they will do as does a mj600. A mj600 has wire levers and I can attest to the fact they will hold deer and some larger sized ones at that, no injurys but a pain to let go. Now a mj600 is going to hold less than these oversized traps for sure as things have to be pretty perfect with their jaw height over a much taller jawed trap. I guess I don't get the wire lever line of thought either?

[bobbrennan]

just telling you his explaination!

[trappincoyotes39]

No problem bob just thinking aloud the logic is all. Sorry if it came off the wrong way!

[redeagle]

In regards to pan size, I see wire screen serving the same purpose as a super-sized pan. Guys poo poo supersized pans but will use wire screens, which work the same way. Same function, only screen is obviously lighter in weight.