TS85s for coyotes?

[trappincoyotes39]

Ok redeagle first you want no one to make statements on overkill, excess weight, and domestice issues in one breath, then in another you ask if there are adverese effects on the foot?

I don't need to use them for coyotes to form an opionon that they are OVERKILL for coyotes. I have trapped enough coyotes to know they will get to high of a hold and not be paw friendly, also to mention I have found them to be under powered for beaver as well.

Mr Locklear also advocates CDR"s for bobcat trapping which again I don't need to waste time trying it to see they are pure over powdered for bobcat use.

I fear MR Locklear likes to be different at times for the sake of being so. I have trapped coyotes long enough to know a 7 1/2" jaw spread is not anymore efficant or paw friendly to coyotes than the highest majority of your 6- 6 1/2 " #3 traps that are set up to restrain coyotes in very good fashion.

Match the trap to the intended target species and application being used. IE: dryland or drownding applications far different. I will also add in MO is a state with no jaw spread limitations at this point but surely won't help in the future if people start setting traps that are far above and beyond nessacary exspecially for land trapping where domestics are a concern.

Bigger is not always better!!!! So you have my .02 like it or not.

[RdFx]

I concurr with 39 on his statements and have learned alot over the years that bigger is not always better in certain circumstances

[calvin]

Geeze... Anyone use them or not? Pretty easy question.

[redeagle]

Agreed, Calvin. I should have anticipated people misunderstanding my post. I'll just delete it and be done with it. Just one reason why I don't like to post on the various trapping sites. Then, they wonder why guys just lurk and don't want to post. No matter what you say, guys take it in the direction they want it to go.

[trappincoyotes39]

redeagle sorry I didn't take it anywhere but where you wanted to go.

You asked about foot issues that means you started to answer your own question before it was asked!

How did I misunderstand?

Not being down on you, but Mr Locklear IMHO is advocating things for the betterment of sale and ego and not the betterment of trappers. Young inexperianced trappers are my fear of what he and others advocate at times.

Sorry you felt the need to delete your orignal post if you want ask Tman to make this all go away if you you feel the need to do so.

[trappnman]

I notice on other forums, non trapping ones as well, that so many times, people ask a question, or give a comment-

such "If I use part X, how do I do so" or somesuch

and replies come in "I don't use part x, you are an idiot to want to use part X!"

and that wasn't the question, the question was" IF I wanted to, how do I use...."

and the poster doesn't care about those never using part X, nor ever wanting to do so.

=================================

didn;t see the original post- but my thought is this-

now its determined, that only a certain size trap (I'm guessing the size trap TC uses) is the ONLY optimum trap for coyotes- anything bigger (or smaller) just won't work.

the advice I've heard from every western trapper to this point, is that is trapping COYOTES, use the biggest trap legal in your area. The bigger the better.

the question of "foot" issues is answered by proper lamination, offsets, etc is it not? and if not, where is that line in the sand?

what is the point of "perfect for no foot damage" vs "too big causes foot damage"?

How was that point determined?

and back to I'd guess the OP- has anyone USED them to form an opinion?

[trappnman]

PS- I know you "don't have to use 1.75s" to have an ironclad opinion on them-

when does experienace matter vis vis trap use? at what point, does one not need experience, one just "knows"?

[Zagman]

I read the original post and felt 39's response was spot-on and far from belittling the question or poster......

To the question......I'd love to try them in late winter with a few feet of snow IF I knew I'd only run into a coyote.

But, alas, you cannot guarantee that NOR would that me legal in my home state of NY.

If you think purely about trap size and animal size and proportions thereof, a TS85 on a big northern coyote is not that far fetched when comparing that to #2 Bridger or Montana #3 on a fox, a 1.5 coil on a coon, or a #2 Vic Sq Jaw on a mink.

I know, those are drowning situations on the water animals, but the proportions are a bit off actual trap-size to actual animal size and weight.

Not supporting the TS85 for coyotes, just saying its really not THAT far-fetched in the right application.

But, from a practical standpoint, it would not have across-the-board application, but rather, a very limited application (at least for me)

MZ

[blackhammer]

The trap is slow and would have to be four coiled to trap coyotes with it. I would have to catch a few coyotes with them to really see how it treated their feet. That however is not practical unless there is a nuclear attack and the only animal left is the coyote. As Zags stated it wouldn't be much different than a big coyote size trap on a fox. The concept isn't that crazy just not applicable on today's trap line.

[trappnman]

if TC has ever used them, his answer might be "spot on"

but since he never has, his answer is just conjecture- and not "spot on" if the original question, as Calvin stated was does anyone use them.

thanks for an informed opionion blackhammer

[Zagman]

Yes Steve you are right.....sorry.

[seldom]

Aug 21, 2012 6:40:12 GMT -6 Zagman said:

But, from a practical standpoint, it would not have across-the-board application, but rather, a very limited application

MZ

X2.......a limited but specific application.

[Wright Brothers]

"when does experienace matter vis vis trap use? at what point, does one not need experience, one just "knows"? "

Kind of like the two way trigger shows no different results than the one way, from guys that admitted to not using each.

Tween that, the flame wariors, know it alls and no nothings, the guys that WILL try and answer but "don't give the answer that he wants me too" pretty hard to maintain a conversation on the net any more.
I suspect over population, look to Pa. With the most trapper density of anywhere yet can not sustain their own web site.
Probably my fault there too. Oh welll lol

Less than two monthes guys, and, it's a nice day.

[trappnman]

redeagle asked, I'm guessing, how these traps would work on coyotes, esp concerning the feet. He also stated he wasn't interested in opinions such as "too big" "domestics" etc- that implied he was aware some had the opinion based on the trap alone, that some considered it "too big" and "what about dogs, cats, etc" but wanted info from those using the trap concerning not opinion, but actual use.

for the record, I'd never use such a big trap on land, for my own reasons. and I'd agree, my OPINION based on never using such a big trap, would be negative. To me, it indeed would be "too big" "overkill" "not for domestics" etc

but I haven't used them and its why I didn't open this thread until today- I HAVE no opinion on such traps- indeed, how could I?

for the record, I've never used any trap bigger than a #3 on land. And most likely never will.

but also for the record, I pay atention to the rule "if you don't know, don't say you do"

and if I don't use something, I dont comment on it.

someone once asked me if the above is true, since I don't run shocksprings, how do I know I don't need them?

and my answer to that is simple- I'm not saying shocksprings aren't the exact ticket to use in certian conditions, equipment setup, etc- but am saying for MY needs, I don't NEED them

And my reasoning is this:
WHAT problem am I having that shocksprings would cure?

I've used shocksprings, still have a few traps with them on, but I don't like the bedding with them, and as stated, have no problem that shocksprings would cure- so why would I not come to the opinion, that I don't need them?

agreed- its a beauty of a day today!

[trappnman]

If you think purely about trap size and animal size and proportions thereof, a TS85 on a big northern coyote is not that far fetched when comparing that to #2 Bridger or Montana #3 on a fox, a 1.5 coil on a coon, or a #2 Vic Sq Jaw on a mink.

I know, those are drowning situations on the water animals, but the proportions are a bit off actual trap-size to actual animal size and weight.

Not supporting the TS85 for coyotes, just saying its really not THAT far-fetched in the right application.

But, from a practical standpoint, it would not have across-the-board application, but rather, a very limited application (at least for me)


couldn't agree more

[trappincoyotes39]

the advice I've heard from every western trapper to this point, is that is trapping COYOTES, use the biggest trap legal in your area. The bigger the better

If this is trully the case then why aren't all the western coyote trappers using size 5 coilsprings? Many western states do not have jaw width restrictions and I don't know a one that use anything that large for coyote trapping. That in essance is where we are with the ts 85 trap. We are talking a trap with a jaw span of 8.5" for coyotes.

I mean we could power them up, baseplate and laminate them and make them weigh in at 4-4.5lbs per trap?

Somethings common sense does prevail in.

If you don't want me to inject common sense then just say so.

A coyote is no different than a fox just bigger and at some point too much trap is well too much trap. Many common factors could cause more damage than needed when using too large of a trap. "common sense".

What do you think would happen on a rainy night with this trap all mudded up on the leg of a coyote? say it weighing in at 6-7lbs total? Do I need to test that out over and over again to dictait the outcome?

[trappnman]

I don't have any of those answers, because I've never used the trap.

[calvin]

I/m not convinced they wouldn't work just fine. Even 2 coiled they hold beaver....even hardstaked. They aren't all that fast so maybe a HIGH catch and damage is just a theory. Yes a theory. And we all know how theories pan out in the real world. I know how many of my own I/ve proven were wrong.

I was scared to death when I started using the 650s. Super strong and I was worried about fox...even though almost none here anymore. Well fox showed up and whadya know.. less "visual" damage than I/ve seen in the 1.75 traps...quite abit less, actually...and they didn't fight it. Coon the same...not a mark on them. Another theory down the tubes.

Hopefully someone gets a change to give the 85 a try on coyotes sometime. I/d like to hear the actual findings.

[greyscat]

when locklear talks about the trap size he's mainly speaking of the kill area, or the larger area the coyote has to potentially put his paw inside the jaw area. the bigger the jaw area the bigger the percentage of actually catching what your after. that's not hard to understand...

[trappnman]

I'm not a big trap guy, my biggest for coyotes are montanas, which really are big #2.

but- we al lcan agree, more or less, in the cut off point for "too small"-

whats the upper limit insofar as you lose any additional benefits, and the bigger trap jaw spread becomes a liability?

TC, you and others you touched on this- so how big IS too big?-