summertime coyotes

[bogio]

OK TC,

Let's take out all the depends ons.

When using a proven lure which is your choice for the given application, getter/flat/holeset, while working summertime coyotes and temperatures swing into and stay in the extremes we've been experiencing, what changes/adjustments will you make?

Steve,

Did that female have the well manicured toenails of a bale walker? Did you reset?

Moisture situation getting critical here as well. Had to do some digging last couple of days, dry and hard. Hope digging isn't like this come fall/winter.

[trappnman]

Bogio....they were pink, with little sparkles on them....wait...that was the cougar in the get and go.... HA!

this has been an interesting job, for a couple of reasons.

#1- coyotes or a coyote were there...but it had been at least a week, and most likely more, since it had been there.

Scouting for sign in all probable locations, showed that.

#2- weather could not have been worse, insofar as inducing coyotes to travel much at all. no rain, 90-100 degree days, no wind, humid.

I know the guy fairly well, was gopher trapping in area, he was going to cut hay, it was fun putting in a few coyote traps- admit I looked forward to it everyday- not catching anything didn't matter, I knew the situation and what the chances would be

so I wanted to see a couple of things i nthat type of conditions, etc-

*when or would the coyote(s) return?
* would the sets I made work, would the lures I used work, would my set locations be where the coyote would be when returning
*Who would I catch
*would the time of year give me abnormal incidentals? (2 coon, 1 skunk)


so after 8 checks, I caught one that returned.

here being a whelping female, with no other tracks visible in the road, in the dust, anywhere including at the other sets told me, I think, a few things about the coyotes on that property, this time of year-

#1- there were no local coyotes- the day before I caught her, the farmer told me he had seen no tracks, coyotes or heard anything and I had seen the same lack of sign. I saw no coyote tracks in 4-5 foot patterns at the set, going into dust and never saw a track all week

the fact that no sign of pups was around the female gives me at least a probable conclusion that she was some distance away from the pups, or i'd think her yipping would attract them ,if within hearing.


#2 the culprit, or Balewalker was most likely that female, taking a little trip away from the pups, and approaching that bone pile, etc from the top of the bales.

nothing today, no tracks- set the farm up for gophers, so will pull everything sat. was surprised to see quite a few this ams fresh gopher mounds. but at 9 this morning, already mid 80s. small town 40 miles away yesterday was 104- add 79 dew point...takes your breath away

In any case we had fun, caught (I think) the culprit, in any case caught the breeding female so he was happy, and I got paid enough for my time

concerning bales- I know a few have mentioned it, and some set traps on top of lone bales- but here its common for coyotes to sit up on top on lone round bales- and just as common for them to walk the rows of plastic wrapped bales, and as mentioned their toenails do a lot of damage

now I never saw any damage on these bales, but as lori said, could have been end ones already fed out- he takes some every day

[bogio]

Tman

In your last post you said "would the lures I made work". Did you try some home formulations? If so, any conclusions, realizing you only had the one coyote return?

Catch pic you said XLDC was the lure. Did your use technique/presentation differ from fall? Did set construction differ any from fall?

Bank here said 104 yesterday at 5 p.m. Still was at 90 at 10 p.m.

Brutal

[trappnman]

that was typed in error- I'm not a lure maker and will let others experiment and I'll use thier proven stuff.

xldc AND pikubua. As I said earlier, I've not had a lot of experience on summer work- did some of the collaring in summer and get a ADC job or two in summer so I just use and do, everything about the same, except try to be right on top of them meaning be where they are hanging out- and most times- thats easy- farmer says they are always "there" and they usually are.

chris said something earlier about travelling to feed, so they move more than one might think and I agree- but here, food is everywhere, they aren't moving this time of year because of need, they are moving because they want to.

[bogio]

Travelling a distance to feed makes me wonder, if I can ask,

1080,

Your coyote that was traveling 8 miles to kill on sheep. Was that the closest source or was it bypassing others to kill on this particular band? And where at did you kill it, where it was coming from, at the sheep, or along it's travel corridor?

[ChrisM]

" but here, food is everywhere, they aren't moving this time of year because of need, they are moving because they want to."

No different than here. We have a great prey base. They don't travel to and kill sheep because they need to...they like to!

If they were forced to kill sheep because they have no other options they'd be in them every night, but they aren't...or very rarely are. Most often every three days to once a week. Why? I don't know...a dumb fat lamb is easy compared to chasing jackrabbits around.

[bogio]

So traveling 8 miles to kill sheep might be more of a night out for entertainment? Interesting! Is there evidence of feeding in these situations, paunch drug out etc., or is it all just kill and let lay for the joy of it?

[trappnman]

thats interesting Chris- very few sheep here, in fact only know a couple of guys that have any. and I never hear of them loosing a sheep. they do have lamas, but I doubt that would matter

wonder why sheep are THE attraction out west, but here so so at best?

do pups travel with the bitch on such occasions, when as now they are, 2-3 months old?

[ChrisM]

Not sure if Id call it a night our for entertainment, as there is almost always feeding involved. Here, its very rare to have sheep killed without feeding. They will on occasion kill several and only feed on one.

Almost always sheep killing involves feeding pups somewhere. Studies have shown over and over that if you can locate and remove the pups the killing will stop, a very high percentage of the time. Which raises my question again... why not every nite?

If you want a headache, have a dry pair get to killing sheep. No den to tie them down, no pups to hear to help locate, no set travel patterns, not as apt to work the dogs.... they can be the $hits! Fortunately this is rare, at least here.

west vs east...I suspect its because sheep out west are primarily range operations compared to small farm flocks back east. Many of which are penned at nite or kept close to the buildings. My "farm flocks" here seldom have a problem. But I do have a large custom feed lot that feeds about 10,000 lambs and they routinely have trouble. Coyotes kill right under the yard lights in the pens. They'll walk right down the alley between the feed bunks.. right past pen 1, 2, 4, 6, ... jump into pen 8 and knock one down. Next time maybe a different pen draws the short straw. I've taken more than a few of these by layin on a hay stack all night. Have watched a few coyotes enter the pen, kill a lamb and feed before shooting it. Interesting and educational.

The pups will often trail along and partake in the festivities but not untill later in the summer.. usually Aug-Sept deal here, tho you always have to account for the early dens.

[bogio]

How was the den finally located? Image that was a frustrating task. Congrats!!

Just a single adult or a pair? Assume the den is in puppy heaven now?


Tman

Just watched the clip for your catch. Those your flip flops or Lori's?

[trappnman]

mine- flip flops saved my life once (long story) and I hate shoes in summer LOL I'm barefoot at home more times than not-

actually just had those traps to check that day, and had forgotten I had the flip flops on-

I had to laugh, so included them in video

[Wright Brothers]

Ah I see, you caught it that far away, predation stopped, done deal.

Good going guys and thanks for the good read everyone. It's hard to sometimes picture you other guys areas. Reading of it here is the best entertainment and learning on this dang box.

I'm far from an adc coyote trapper, or writer,
but here's my one and only naughty coyote story.

Farmer said he "lost" 2 calves and has a cow down of unknown reasons over yonder.
I check cow and its cleaned to the bone.
I set where I could check with binos from a knoll and well away from the cow and fence.

That night snow. Next morning I role in and see big disturbance inside fence. Cow and coyote tracks running and somethinng was dragged. Called the man that night and asked if he lost another. He said no, right before the cold front a calf was born and he carried it inside the barn.

I reasoned it was the after birth that was dragged as the cows chased the single yote.
(Someone needs to make an after birth lure)
Think it was 3 days later a double in the traps, big male and female. All cows were lined up at nearest point of fenced pasture stomping around lol. Took three more in about 8 or 10 checks, smaller singles. Problems ended.

That spot is now called, "The Glassy Knoll" Since then I average two a season at that area. I used to take a lot more fox there ten years or so ago, and zero coyotes.

[bogio]

Think I remember MJ talking about a placenta based lure he used.

Of course it only caught alpha coyotes.

[bogio]

ChrisM,

On the "Why not every night?"

In this part of the country, farmer/rancher interaction with their livestock is most times daily, at most every 2 to 3 days, and generally the extended checks involve mature cattle. Is it possible that the coyotes when feeding pups are able to meet the demands put on them for a few days without visiting an area of high human activity, then they have to make a "run" to get ahead of the game?

[ChrisM]

bogio,

You're theories are as good as mine because I really don't know. I personally don't believe it due to the human activity thing you described, since out here that's not an issue on most outfits. Even on small farm flocks there's seldom much human activity after dark and besides, coyotes are a far different critter at nite than during the day. On penned flocks, I've seen the coyotes wait and hit them mid morning soon as they are turned out.

I've heard it said that the more often they return relates to how close they are living, but for me, that has not proven to be a consistent indicator. I've had groups living in the corn field right next door only kill once a week and a group three miles away hit them every nite or every other nite. The only thing I can say for certain is that distance is not an issue at all to the coyotes...If they're hitting them at night.

[trappnman]

pulled them yesterday-

little over a week- 4 coon, 1 coyote, 1 skunk.

oddly, i've never (or if I have can't remember) taken a coon here in fur season.

pond is still there then (although its as full as its been in many years right now, be interesting to see if it lasts to fall) - difference is no more corn in fall

[ChrisM]

To the point made about coyotes not leaving their home range, even to kill sheep....

Got a new complaint. Couple hundred dry ewes been running on a pasture for the last 6 weeks or so. Not a single problem. On the south end of this pasture is a gravel road running east and west. Friday, the farmer moved the ewes to to a pasture immediately south of the road....Bang! First nite they knocked one down. Classic coyote kill...throat cut, paunch pulled out with considerable feeding on the hind quarter. These's a batch of pups somewhere. Haven't found em yet...but I will.

Not this morning... maybe not tomorrow morning...but one morning for sure. Hell is coming to breakfast!

I find that gravel roads are often used as territorial boundaries. Finding dropping on the road is a good indicator of such.

[bogio]

ChrisM,

The coyotes not leaving the home territory even to kill sheep. Is that a constant or dependent on a neighboring/maintained territory butting up to theirs? Are there coyotes maintaining an opposing line on the northside of that road?

[ChrisM]

Good question bogio. IMO its a pretty good constant. From memory, I believe the collar studies I've seen all had neighboring groups. I suspect a group would enlarge its territory to occupy any adjacent area without coyotes if said area was suitable/desirable.....asuming normal populations and not suppressed by mange etc... I believe territory sizes are largely determined by coyote population not available prey base.

I trapped three coyotes to the north when the ewes were placed there but all drys. never did locate a wet pair..but doesn't mean they aren't there since I didn't spend a lot of effort as I knew it was just gonna be ewes with no lambs and in these parts ewes are seldom bothered.

Shot a wet female yesterday morning 1/2 mile east of the ewes. Showed nine pups. Havent found the pups or pops yet but now have a direction on them. The noose is tightening!

[trappnman]

here is an interesting thing from our collaring here-

had a mated pair both collared. Never, were either one found on the opposite side of a small blacktopped country road.

the male was killed- within a week, the female went over to the other side, and then never returned to the original side

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I believe territory sizes are largely determined by coyote population not available prey base.


that's an interesting theory. What you are in effect saying, is that coyotes will have an "infinite" territory, unless they encounter other coyotes? Of course I don't mean infinite in the literal manner, but rather as a concept.

territory is only protected during pup season, am I correct? So with pups, you think that the pair, defends larger territories w/o close neighboring coyotes? Defend I guess in this instance, defined as marking out larger than needed territories.

Wouldn't that be counterproductive?

that the more travel> the more energy exerted, the less fat buildup, milk production, etc? The more leaving pups unattended and subject to danger?

or is it just wanderlust? that coyotes if they can travel unencumbered by restrictions, they will?

or did you mean range after pup season over, more so than territory/

not asking above to say your wrong, cause that's not the case. just asking to clarify

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BTW- if others like this type of discussion- then jump in- if its just a few of us, we could take it to pm