Who has taken Ogorman instruction?

[seldom]

Jul 29, 2012 17:27:24 GMT -6 spring said:

Seldom...you don`t hire many workers do you...If so and you do, do you require references...you know..qualifacation, degree`s...prior work history backed by a previous employer...Oh...trapping and welding aren`t even in the same ballpark, thats how i see it...

Well Spring, I must have misinterpreted your previous reply. I thought you were talking about giving credit where credit was due to the instructor.

..Some will give their two cents and not give one ounce of credit to who they actually gained their knowledge from...Almost like they are embarrassed to admit they needed guidance and help...

No, I've never hired a welder, I've been one since 1965 and as with all starting welders for my old company, had an instructor. My analogy had to do with welding instructors and trapping instructors and the lack of credit given to both.

You sound like an employer of welders or a welder yourself Spring and if that's the case that you're an employer, I'd say you probably don't do any in-house instruction but rather hire qualified welders to fit your needs. if you're a welder, you weren't a welder when you started and someone was your tutor or instructor. Nothing wrong with that, I've been in many, many shops like that but those welders learned from someone somewhere before they walked into your shop.

In addition, my last 15 years with Dow(my career company) I was the last non-degreed Welding Engineer hired from the ranks. I wrote the specs your shop had to weld too AND inspected too if you welded for my company. I also was the man who reviewed and accepted or rejected those welder certs and PQR/WPS's you spoke of in a hundred shops and mechanical contractors across the country as well as actually test them myself. If not me personally, I hired inspectors to do it. Nope, never hired a welder but I had some fired as I did entire companies and fab shops when they ask to have their house tore down. Yes, you better believe I know something about welding, fabrication, inspection, and engineering specifically in the chemical industry.

As far as trapping experience, I've never had instructions but certainly understand the concept though enough to draw my analogy from as this will be my 57th year trapping.

So, what have I misunderstood in your reply Spring to make you think I need to hire a welder or I don't have an idea of what welding or trapping is? I've never hired a welder or hired a trapper. I've had a 40+ year career in welding with every ASME cert for every material and every welding process from one end of the welding industry spectrum to the other and 56 years of trapping experience during which time I've deciphered a working knowledge of trapping instruction.

Now you may not like my analogy between trapping instructors and welding instructors and that's cool beans but it's mine and I'm qualified enough to like it and the ballpark it's in!

[trappnman]

TC- I have no doubt some if not all the books listed at good ones-

and I've read several other coyote books including a couple of Slims, which is very definitive concerning behaviors.

but overall, O'Gs book give far more practical information, plus the behavior info- in my opinion of course.

Its odd to me, that I know of at least 10-12 people that are regularly here, that have taken lessons from O'G- yet most remain silent on this thread.

Seriously, why is that? Is there a stigma to taking lessons from O'G by the convention/Internet crowd?

I've never taken lessons, but if I had, I'd state it. I've been very open over the years to give credit to those that furthered my coyote career- but I'll state it again.

lots of people over the years have given me ideas, tips and food for thought- many such on the discussions here and elsewhere back in the day.

but definitive help- game changers if you will.....

first of all, I'll give Tom Miranda credit for his coyote book- lots of stuff in it I don't follow, but his description/pictures of a walk through, were what got me being productive with them and made me for a few years, be pretty much a flat set trapper only.

and then I'll give old Wiley E all the credit in the world, for understanding my thirst for coyote knowledge, and taking me under his wing and introducing me to coyote theory and behavior.

and his introducing me to other western coyote people- people that lived and breathed coyotes. Chris, Slim, Odon, Glen to name a few.

Because of them, my approach became analytical not one of wonderment.

And the third big quantum leap was thanks to a guy that Wiley once told me when he joined the forum"no one knows more about coyotes than he does" He did add a little more, but I'll keep that to myself...

1080 of course- the mystery man.

he forced me to take behavior to another level (and I still can't see the top!) and to wonder how many coyotes I was missing, because I was setting contrary to..... for lack of a better summation, innate behaviors.

I thought- here is a man running and gunning coyotes if they are coon- why could he do that? why didn't he have to set and wait.

remember all the posts over the years, stating the 4-6 day was "the best day" of a coyote line? I found that to be kinda true on my lines as well-

yet, this guy was moving on in a few days- and slaying them in numbers that frankly I didn't think possible.

so I made the leap- one on the hardest such leaps of faith I've made in trapping- blew my mind to be in locations less than a week- and now, my best days are first day after all line is set out- then it goes down from there until day 4-5, I'm READY to move.

so thanks Tom, thanks Wiley, and thanks 1080!

[trappincoyotes39]

Giveing credit where due is what ALL should do, but also doesn't buy a reprieve IMO for other actions that goes for all people in life not just a thread on a trapping website.

[garbage collector]

kskoons, whats your agenda, if you got hoofbeats, then you got the magazine as well, which should of answered any questions you already had. Why bring it on the open forum? when all it ever does is start alot of doo doo. Do some research and you'll be surprised how many have and still do.
Robert W I see no correlation between the contest and being a student. Since I personally know a few that have gone, they claim its pretty standard basic setups and locations, especially at that time of year. Now if I went down there I'd be going with the idea its for the life experience, not for the big jackpot.lol I remember when the reigning winner first started going, guys out of the midwest and west saying there ain't no way this guys going to win. What you all didn't know was he is a machine, loves to trap and had what it takes to be a winner and thats the mentality, the thing that sets apart a trapper from a top trapper.
Tman oh your memory must be fading, I remember seeing a pic of a bunch of fellas standing by a stream and your standing there also. Them other fellas where all very accomplished trappers back then. Anybody thats seen a demo of sorts has had a lesson. Couple yrs back I was standing chatting with a fella, another fella starts givin a demo so I start listening a bit, that guy gave me 1 tip that changed my whole thinking. I was looking for a faster setup time and that was the answer. Now I ran into him recently and told him about how he influenced my line. His comment was he is amazed that I didn't know about it already.

[garbage collector]

Tman another thing I find interesting is guys that take or took instruction from Thorpe, Hanson, Griggs, Nelson,Lenon, Waddell, Ohearn, just to name a few, and discuss it nothing said. But the fellas that take instruction from og get jumped on immediately, the biggest reason its not mentioned.
Kskoon heres something to think about the trappers school is over 1,000 nowadays and that gets filled up yrly, or at least it was last I heard, I know its 5 days vs 2 heard it before. Buddy of mine highly recommends it.


theres plenty of fellas I'd part with some dollars to spend a 2-3 days learning more. Not picking on ya Nick C, but heres a fella that when he first got onto this forum asked alot of questions and over the yrs his catch has increased and now is pretty impressive, plus his put ups are top notch from the pics he posts.

Robert W is also on my list to visit, biggest problem is time, since I'm still part of corporate america, meaning punching a clock.

[trappincoyotes39]

Rusty one also must think about the instructor and his attitude and how it meshes with the person paying the $$$ for such information as well. There are a few that would be great to gain information from and others I wouldn't give a .05 to.

Your personality and the instructors need to be close or neither will gain from each other and don't think the instructor at times isn't gaining insight from the so called student because GREAT instructors do exactly that often.

It isn't ALL about the information but how that information is given and how it sinks into ones brain. Meaning look at the better public speakers and how they react with people and engauge with them. It isn't like your spending a week or longer and we all need that information to soak in as best we can and also take good notes, doesn't matter trapping or what ever.

My .02 worth.

[trappnman]

oh, my mermory must be failing?

how so?

I clearly remember when I organised that mink day, and it was very enjoyable afternoon-

but after blind setting mink for decades, nothing discussed was in any way game changing for me.

and those days were summed up when I stated-

"lots of people over the years have given me ideas, tips and food for thought- many such on the discussions here and elsewhere back in the day.

but definitive help- game changers if you will....."

[braveheart]

I can say now after this last lesson.That a trapper is made and not born.

[kskoons]

I have no agenda rusty, I asked simple questions that have simple answers if people wish to answer that way. You can read EGO and arrogance into any thread on here or any site when the persom posting gives advice backed with numbers and experience. Most times this perception about the poster comes from jealousy and ignorance from the person reading it.

Craig O'gorman came across as a very gracious man, thankful for all that he had learned from to many people for me to mention and remember anyway. I sensed no EGO at all, maybe he was intimidated by me, I caught all of two coyotes last year. Talk to him and get to know him, if you think he is good, you ought to hear of some of the mind blowing numbers killed by some of his students!

I have full confindence now that I can take coyotes easily. I never went after them much but now they will be my target this year, just to see if I learned anything. I am just a beaver trapper and it sure looks easier than killin beavs!

[maule]

"Has O'Gorman ever had a student win the Coyote Trapping contest? How about even place in the top three? Who were they and what years?"


RobertW

Mike Greenwell of Utah was an O'gorman student and with partner Mike Hensley won the contest several years. At least two consecutively as I remember.

Maule

[terminator1]

"Has O'Gorman ever had a student win the Coyote Trapping contest? How about even place in the top three? Who were they and what years?"


If he has they all won, anyone who has competed were all winners. Just getting there you won!

[trappincoyotes39]

What Robert fails to see, is this contest could be won by many other coyote trappers that is a fact. I know a few from this site and some that don't post at all that could win that contest and I would be the first in line to buy them in a calcutta format and walk away with a nice chunk of change doing so.

Doesn't matter who one has taken instruction from but do you know coyotes, really know them and be able to get after them in any geographic region in short order. To me that is trully knowing coyotes.