Who has taken Ogorman instruction?

[ChrisM]

Robert, the question was about the value of OG;s instructions. You injecting his students success at the contest into the discussion, was an obvious attempt to use it as some sort of evidence to the value of the instruction.

[trappincoyotes39]

Robert you keep bringing up Bill Applegate, what does mt lions have to do with coyotes?

Secondly depending on how far away you are from this reservation you will have some lodging or driving straight through.

Do they feed you all week and pay for your gas? No didn't think so!

You know I wouldn't place in the top 75% and you know that how?

Again your ego abounds Robert. Let me guess the majority of the winners in this obscure contest have been past FTA Trapper College folk? Or personnel students of Robert Waddell?

Yes obscure is what it is, why don't they publish the numbers taken? Answer at least that question! Some of the best in the nation you wanted names, then start naming these best in the nation! Are they the best because they won this contest? Or Because they made a video? Or because Robert W say's so? Very subjective for sure.

Kudos to those who have won, hats off for your time and willingness to compete, but raise the purse and see if you don't have more of a mix of people show up!

12 teams meaning 24 people Robert.........................

[Jarhead620]

Lighten up guys.

I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express so I must have the goods to win the Coyote Olympics.

Note: It was more than 400 miles from Broadus, MT.

Larry

[kelly]

Jun 13, 2012 13:09:56 GMT -6 @seldom said:

I'm absolutely crushed, crushed I tell you that Kelly as offered up that he's not a "self-made" coyote trapper!! Damn, what's this world coming to??? ;D ;D ;D

Where have I ever said or implied that?

[seldom]

Jun 14, 2012 10:13:35 GMT -6 @kelly said:

Jun 13, 2012 13:09:56 GMT -6 @seldom said:

I'm absolutely crushed, crushed I tell you that Kelly as offered up that he's not a "self-made" coyote trapper!! Damn, what's this world coming to??? ;D ;D ;D

Where have I ever said or implied that?

Just funning with ya Kelly that you fessed-up! ;D ;D ;D ;D

[jerrycat]

I think the contest is really a joke. Now if you had the contest where it had a really nice payback you would see alot of good coyote trappers enter it but with not much pay back you will never see the really good coyote trappers in it. Wonder why 1080 and andy don't ever get in it?

[lb]

This is an apples and oranges comparison. Numbers taken are a direct correlation of the ground you are working. The objective in a contest, at a remote location is a lot different than working your own territory, without the contest BS.

If I give a man instructions on hunting coyotes, and he is a dipstick, is my reputation going to suffer when he doesn't do very well in a contest? Yeah, I said hunting, I don't trap. But I have been entering contests for over 44 years and believe I know a thing or two on what it takes to win. The contest is a lot different from recreational sport hunting or ADC coyote control. The only thing constant is that it involves coyotes.

Besides that, some very talented men have no desire to compete, or travel to some remote location while they are more concerned with making a living. The original question is quite different from the responses in the second half of the thread. Attempting to prove, one way or another, who is best or who is the best teacher is a lot different than discussing who is winning contests. Right now, winning a contest is pretty much a younger man's game, and he brings drive and talent and skill besides vast knowledge, which is kinda optional. In a few days, you are just skimming the cream off the top. A man in his own country learns to deal with the progression of the season and how to get the most of what he has, long term.

That's a snapshot of my opinion. Others are free to disagree but it won't change my opinion. LB

[hdwolfer]

Good post lb.

[terminator1]

lb, well said. Yor are very right that the comptetition is different than fur trapping. cold roll in to a new area (state) and your season last 1 week and your done then see how you do. If you can catch coyotes there you can catch them anywhere. you are also right about some very talented people not wanting to compete alot of them very talented people dont even get on the internet. And it wouldn't matter to them if there was a $10,000 prize they still wouldn't compete. you win just getting there and running as hard as you can for a week, the only ones that don't see that are the internet trappers. They are the ones that would suffer there reputation.

[trappincoyotes39]

To a degree I agree. Still this contest process little

[thrstyunderwater]

I took instructions from Craig and learned alot.

I wish I had come with more questions.

[mean1]

I took instructions from Craig also back in 2007, just wish I would have done it long ago because I know my fur checks would of been larger over the years. Taking instructions from him you learn a lot. It advances you in your life time of trapping canines. Just remember the word JEALOUS speaking Craig's name in from of a bunch of high ego trappers .

I personally know of 2 trappers from Ohio that were students of his that are now Gov and state trappers that were hired because of the canines they have caught over the years. 1 guy out trapped 3 WY Gov guys the first year he was hired trapping coyotes with steel traps only.

Mean1

[trappincoyotes39]

Mean 1 1 guy out trapped 3 WY Gov guys the first year he was hired trapping coyotes with steel traps only.

Care to go into detail on this paragraph?

I mean what does this proove?

District, numbers of coyotes, time devoted to that tool, district size, time of year all of this comes into play.

ADC work isn't a contest by any means.

If your "guy" is working more cattle than sheep then the expectation changes some, so do total coyote numbers. The more sheep you protect the less coyotes one should have due to wants and needs of the producers.

If anyone is taking large numbers of coyotes off sheep producers are they really doing there job when they should be?

Counting on one primary tool isn't the deal in ADC work.

The steel trap can be a great choice at times but you need all the tools in the bag to be proficant in ADC. The steel trap alone isn't going to meet expectations and limit damage all by itself in many cases.

[trappincoyotes39]

Yeah L Craig Ogorman has no ego and throws no one under the bus for a sale

Have you forgot what he wrote about our own member RK???

[trappnman]

I've heard so much about the ego of O'G- and so what that he considers himself in high esteem as a premier coyote trapper- he is.

as the old guy said- no brag, just fact

and reading the posts on the forums, seems like about everyone that has much experience and numbers to their credit, feels the same.

I've read a few coyote books- and in only one of them, did I see not only credit to others, but a constant stream of credit to others throughout the book.

have not taken instructions from him, nor ever used any of his products, the the only thing I have ever used or owned of O'Gs, is the book. and so I truely don't have a dog in this hunt

but if you haven't read hoofbeats- and you want the definitive book on coyotes- get it

[trappincoyotes39]

definitive book on coyotes

Tman do you ahve any of the books listed below? All are excellent reading material on coyotes biology,behavior as well as all the free stuff online print and compile into large 3 ring binders I have two of them full of excellent free information. Minus ink, paper and my time looking them up of course.

I can think of others I would rank there on coyotes and behavior.

I have owned hoof beats since 1988. A good book but I wouldn't go as far as the definative on coyote behavior and such. It is a great mix of info for sure.

Coyote man, Coyotes: Biology, Behavior and Management by Bekhoff, Coyotes: Predators and Survivors
by Charles L. Cadieux

All are excellent books on Coyotes as well.

He has some lures that have worked well for me in the past and EGO aside I don't see the need to take a run as he has in the past on his fellow compition in the lure/bait and supply business poor business taste IMO.

[trappincoyotes39]

Ok I said my peace now let the hot water fall

[spring]

I`ll tell ya what surprises me...well not really...Some will give their two cents and not give one ounce of credit to who they actually gained their knowledge from...Almost like they are embarrassed to admit they needed guidance and help... To each their own...I guess.

[seldom]

Jul 29, 2012 13:11:38 GMT -6 spring said:

I`ll tell ya what surprises me...well not really...Some will give their two cents and not give one ounce of credit to who they actually gained their knowledge from...Almost like they are embarrassed to admit they needed guidance and help... To each their own...I guess.

Well I'll tell you Spring how I see it. Trapping, similar to welding is skill and while most trappers don't trap for a living anymore, most welders in industry do. Those welders on the whole take i itial instruction from someone. The instructor helps them with the basics, explains to them in detail what is expected of them, and once the welders reach a predetermined level of proficiency, are pointed in a direction by which they can increase their competency if some so desire. Some do,some don't but it's been my observations that few ever mention that person(instructor) who taught them and jump-started them toward a career in welding. I could be all wet but it appears to me that's what I see as an analogy between the two.

In addition, just because the instructor did his part and may be touted as the greatest instructor there ever was doesn't guarantee that the pupil will ever progress beyond the basics either because of the lack of work ethic, desire, or just numb-nuttedness!

[spring]

Seldom...you don`t hire many workers do you...If so and you do, do you require references...you know..qualifacation, degree`s...prior work history backed by a previous employer...Oh...trapping and welding aren`t even in the same ballpark, thats how i see it...