Rat Stretchers

[BadDog]

Wow, you fellow lurkers are sure quiet these days...

Seeing as rats are still fresh on most of your minds, what type of stretcher do you prefer and why? Wood or wire.

I like the convieneience of wire but I hate the shape, perhaps there's better wire stretchers out there than what I have??? I kind of owned them for a couple decades!!! I have a bunch of thin wood stretchers that have the thickness tapered down from base to nose but I need more, the kind you dont need belly boards for. Any ideas where to get real nice wood boards?

And while we are at it, it would be good to see some kind of stretcher fight happen!!! er I mean discussion. Any takers?!!

[seldom]

May 13, 2012 17:04:13 GMT -6 mightydog said:

gotta be a small coyote to fit on a muskrat strecher.

:)yup, but unform!

[trappnman]

I sell local, and my buyer by far, prefers them on wire. And he is a big time rat buyer.

I know some say wood gives you more rat, I don't see it myself, but I respect their opinon and perhaps for them, it does.

I've got several hundred of the old Winona Peerless stretchers- the dominate leader in the field for decades, and love them. I like the stiffer wire, and the hooks are right size and shape

I've got a pile that have the bottom weld broke, and they are perfect for kits.

If you go to wire- its worth finding the old ones- Peerless no longer makes them, but can be found.

My NSFHO anyways.

[thebeav2]

When I'm dealing with 1000s of rats and I have to get them done In hurry I go to all wire. In fact i had to beg borrow and steal every wire stretcher I could find. I still used my wood but wire Is faster and you got to do what you got to do.

But make no mistake about It wood presents your fur better then wire. And presentation makes a huge difference In the end result.
I would NEVER use a board with out using a belly wedge. It just makes things a lot better. Sure if your pulling hides off wood a little early then you might get away with not using a wedge.
spring rats have no leather and dry over night. over drying and over scraping spring rats Is a huge NO NO. Heavy fall and winter rats are a different story and should be scarped a bit more and left to dry a bit longer. On spring rats we even greased the leather side just to take away that dry cardboard look. You need to use every trick In the book to present that fur to It's highest potential.

[mtcbrlatrap]

If when you look at them and feel them and the rats on board look and feel better to you; do you think and feel that the same thoughts carry over to the buyers? If yes then the extra cost and work are probably worth it. If there is a slight edge in value to wood but large scale buyers don't pay any premium or seem to care about which presentation method is being used then two things come into play. One they can save enough labor costs to make the advantage minimal or two their margins are great enough that 10 cents, a quarter or a half doller per rat is not enough to quibble about.


Bryce

[thebeav2]

Presentation to a country buyer means squat. He In most cases knows what he's going to pay for a certain sized rat. In most cases if he Is big enough he has his own broker he deals with. If he's not so big he has a bigger buyer he sells to daily or weekly so he has a cash flow. So these buyers could care less about wood or wire.

But In my opinion If you sell through the auction, presentation Is a important aspect of the skin game. If that hide has a heavy feel and a nice look to It your probably going to get your fur a better grade.

A rat on wire:

You can pull down the skirt area and do all kinds of fooling around to hold It down in place. But In about 98% of the time that rat as It dries will pull the clothespins or even the hooks up the stretcher. I have even went back and noticed where the hooks have just plain loosened up and were not even holding the hide in place. Most wire forms are one size and one size does not fit all. A hide that's to small put on stretcher that's to big will thin the hide as It dries and give It a papery feel and sound. A hide too large will shrink down to the size of the stretcher and loose you size.


Non of these scenarios happen when you pin down a hide on wood. I have 3 different sized wood forms and that will make me more money.

[bogio]

I've only been finishing fur for three years and shipping to NAFA for two. I use all wire stretchers. It's easy to see that there is a real divide amongst opinions concerning wood vs. wire. I have forgone worrying only about how much size I can get out of a piece of fur and concentrate more on what it looks like. Start out with clean fur and a decent scrape job. Get the base to the right width for the length it will easily give you while maintaining relatively parallel sides and fairly straight skirts on the bottom. Sew up holes. Make sure the eyes, ears, tail, and front legs are centered.

By doing it this way, my coon last year did $21.24 and this year $26.08. I think rats last year were just over $10.00, this years did $12.69. Could I have done better on wood? I kind of doubt it but who knows. I've got coyotes selling in about two weeks, I'm interested to see what happens with them.

[thebeav2]

The thing everyone forgets Is that when the fur market Is high lots of things are over looked when the fur market Is low you need all the help you can get.

I have put up fur professionally for many years. When I contract out to NAFA they what all the coon done on wood. So there must be a reason for this. The one thing about coon on wood Is that EVERY coon Is the same shape and size. I put up around 4000 coon last year and a couple times I was a bit pushed and I had to use some wire. And I can tell you this the difference between wood and wire Is huge. There Is no way you can let a coon reach It's maximum potential on wire.

Wood and coyotes Is a perfect match. The ease of putting coyotes on wood Is a no brainier.
Does any one put mink on wire? (maybe Gappa lol) Probably not and there Is a reason for that.

But If one Is happy with wire then It Is what It Is.

[musher]

Have you ever seen beaver put up on wire? The round hoops were popular way back when. They certainly made a round beaver pelt!

[bogio]

Sooooo, what could I have expected out of my fur if it had been on wood rather than wire? Or will the real tell be when the market receeds?

As far ease of putting coyotes on wood, what do you mean? Once the skinning and fleshing is done the rest is gravy. I'm at a loss here.

MY point is that just because it's on wood doesn't necessarily make it better. It still has to be handled well.

[thebeav2]

Put a coyote on wood and see how much fuller It looks when dry. Put one on wire and they dry just about flat. Another trick Is to brush the fur toward the head area when green an dthen hang your stretcher with the head end down. When dry this will give your coyote or fox a fuller look in the neck area.

Musher I tried hoops and I prefer wood. Hooking up hog rings don't cut It for me. And On boards I can do two and that takes up less room In the shop. And the Industry wants a oval shaped beaver.

You are losing length on every coon that goes on wire you just can't pull the skirt down to where It can be squared off. And you know that all pelts are measured to the shortest part. I bet you lose at least a grade size when using wire. Place the coon on your board pull down the skirt area using a pair of pliers and staple then do the other side then pleat the fur Into the tail area. Six staples across the back. pull the legs around to the belly side and staple. This will form It's own window and you won't have to do much trimming. I bet I can gain over 3" on wood versus wire. That gets you more money. And I can lay out that tail so It looks good and dries well.
Get some wood and give It a try. I wouldn't be doing 4000 coon each year on wood If It didn't work.
You can't change the quality of the fur but you can present It better on wood.

[thorsmightyhammer]

Where do you plan on selling said rats marty?

If I was going to ship all mine to auction I'd use wood.

[trappincoyotes39]

That is the key what is the extra cost and time worth per pelt avg for wood over wire? It has to pay out in the end and as Beav stated in a higher market who cares as long as the fur looks good?

In a lower market it has to make money sense again to make that differance pay! A coyote coyote on wire can look good as long as you don't try to gain a length advantage. Guys who grade fur your not going to trick them by use of a stretcher, never bought into that a full coyote can be seen just skinned not even put up. Another thing with coyotes is color and pelt quaility, don't care wood or wire it better have good color and a decent pelt little signs of mange or lice or what form you use means little your not changing the end product in either catagory. Bellies are key to coyotes and then back color very few sizing lots on coyotes.

Bobcats close to the same but bellies and backs are the key, size and gain means little if that cat is off color and has a weak belly or off colored back.

I wonder if most fur wouldn't benefit from Krause stretchers he uses for cats a hybred wire top and a wood bottom form? More pain in the but but would add quialities and also speed up drying time. Far more size grading in coons than most other critters for sure!

[coloradocat]

I do know from dealing with the buyers and brokers at Colorado's auction. The dressers complain more about coyotes being stretched on wire more than anything else. They say if something isnt going to dress, 9 times outta 10 it will be a coyote that has been stretched on poor wire . Dont kill the messanger, just what they continually tell me at our sale.

[trappincoyotes39]

why would they think wire keeps pelts from dressing out properly? It would be more of the turning of the pelt and quiality of such work done. Don't make them bullet shaped LOL.

[coloradocat]

They say alot of people dont clean there stretchers. Mainly rust and such, and whether they did not dry them good enough before the turn or whatever, that rust or dirty line where the stretcher meets the hide will slip. One of Pappas big buyers will show you box after box of cats doing the same thing. They are just like everyone else, need a return on there investment too. But your right, it is all in the handling, and as most of you know, fur harvesters in general dont always do the best of job on that end.

[trappnman]

agree with TC- if thats true- its in how the pelt was handled and dried, not the wire.

In my opinion, its not true that wood makes coyotes look fuller.

I use 30% wood, the rest wire and I cannot see nor feel any difference when ready to go to the buyer.

Fox however, I DO find it gives the pelt a fuller look at the shoulders. Why, don't know, but haven't put a fox up on wire in 5-6 years

------------------------------

a couple of points- first of all, you don't need clothespins or any other little tricks to keep rats from moving up the wire when drying. You just need to put them on the wire right. And that means, I guess, a thick wire stretcher so the wire isn't under too much of a strain. Place the stretcher between your knees, squeeze the bottom, line it up and whipsaw it down- not a st pull, but from side to side. when tight, release knee pressure, then take your hand and grab each side and tighten - then take the hooks in so they are slightly down at the base, hook firmly, and then lock i nthe hook by pulling the base down- only te base. The rat is as tight as it can be, and I've measured and measured and measured and they don't pull up on the skirt. If others have this problem, then they do. I don't. I don't say this to start a discussion or debate, but only to state that sliding up on wire as the dry, is not a universal occurance.

Heres the thing, for me, about wood for rats. I listened to all the internet discussion, liked the look, decided to try some, and I DO like the look. Two years ago, I started putting up some on wood- I had maybe 75 in first batch on wood, thought Lee would really comment on them, but he said nothing and I didn't either. A few weeks later, had another batch to sell, a again some with wood.

That time I mentioned it- said "I'm starting to put some up on wood" and he said- "noticed that last time too- did you run out of wire?"

I said thought wood was better, bigger rat, unifrom and all that- and he said NO- wire was better AND gave you a bigger rat.

He wanted them all on wire.

Now I know beav said country buyers don't care- but if he didn't care, he wouldn't have said he PREFERRED them on wire. And why wouldn't they care in general? If one was truly better, then the buyer would, i'd assume, make a bit more money when he resells, and he would stil lpay the buyer abotu te same, correct?

In any case, I didn't put a rat up on wire this past year.

[thebeav2]

There are to many trappers In this day and age that are cutting corners. The use of borax and not turning coyotes fox and cats In my opinion Is going to come back and bite the one who uses this method.
Those critters you mention are most likely the result of these methods.

I believe that wood Is a little more forgiving since you don't have skin touching skin like you do on wire. And with the use of two belly boards you have a bit more air circulation. I'm going with wood It just gives me a better finished product.
And one more thing, you ever tried to store 400 wire rat stretchers? Wood stacks so much better.

[thebeav2]

In any case, I didn't put a rat up on wire this past year.

Did you mean wood?

I believe that 90% of all wire rat forms are to wide In the shoulder area this gives you a wide rat but you lose length. If a buyer Is grading by length then your not presenting that rat by length. And that buyer is seeing a short wide rat and Is buying It that way. I would say with the correct shoulder width you can pull that rat down to at least 2" longer then with a to wide shoulder width. And this difference In shoulder width doesn't have to be that great to make a difference.
Your NOT MAKING THE RAT LONGER your just stretching It to It's maximum length. It's all about presentation. I've seen lots of buyers when grading rats by size use a calibrated sizing board. And we all know that a 1" or so can put you In another grade. So a short wide rat will loose you length thus putting you In a lesser grade.
Now If your buyer had a portable scanner with him then your dealing with square Inches.

[trappnman]

yes, meant wood.....

I have 500 or so wire ones- found the best way to store is in plastic totes- by alternating sides and direction, you can get quite a few in one.

I have a few brands, but find the Peerless thick ones seem to be the correct shape-I get a nice taper rather than that "bulge" or teepee look.

I still have those 4-5 doz newhouses- will be at Galesville district & the WI and UP shows if anyone is interested.