Flat set fencing issues

[thrstyunderwater]

This is something that ive never been confidnt with. Ive got 2 totes in five days but have misse at least four due to improper trap placement or fencing.

I'm pretty much doing flat sets or mafia sets with some combo of fox/coyote urine, gland lure, and turds. My sets are getting worked, just wantto improve my connections.

Im running 1.75s or #3 softcatches. I've backed the trap back on most flat sets to be 9-12" pan to lure. Any advice or pictures on fencing? I'm really interested in the walk through/mafia flat set.

[trappnman]

why are you going with flat sets and little lure set?

in my opinion, both are good set types but both are also harder to guide, etc. Esp with small traps.

a good dirt hole set made with a large pattern against a good backing, is going to get noticed and worked and your success will improve with the guiding, for the most part, built in.

I like the flat set/walk through that Odon Corr advocated, added to the "triangle" setup as Tom Miranda showed in his book.

I like to find two clumps of something 2 feet or a little more apart- I prefer grass clumps 1-2 feet high and maybe 8-10" in diameter, but will use smaller, made at the edges of bigger backings such as tall weeds. but cow chips, rocks in rocky areas, next to sage clumps, etc works as well.

I then take a re rod, and make 2 holes, one in front of each clump- tight, but still visible. I make them 100% vertical, and wobble the re rod so the top of the hole is wider, in the 2-3" range.

The trap goes between the two clumps (or objects), so that it is 8-10 inches out from the horizontal "line" of the 2 clumps of grass.

Many times, I can find the right set up, and a 3rd clump is in place at the back edge of the trap. I like this tight to the back edge, and if one is not there, I'll import a clump of smaller grass- I want the trap guide to be the same if using chips, but much smaller if grass clumps.

Lure each hole with a distinctively different lure-sweet/food/skunk/cat lure/etc

keep the lure in the hole- I put it in, a good glop, then push it down as deep as I can go with a1/2 of a cotton ball (or its impossible to so). Don't put any up high at this set, and keep the urine down low as well. I usually put the urine at the base of each lured clump, and sometimes on the trap guide as well.

I should add, I'm a believer in spraying urine over and around a set- as a sometimes wise-man told me, "the old timers had it right, urine isn't a lure, its suspicion remover."

blend out the approach patterns well, by broadcasting dirt so no hard lines and make it in a wide area. if sugar sand or similar, thats pre done so to speak. If dusty, I'll often toss several handfuls of dust in air over general set area, really blends things in.

I sometimes use foot guides, but if the set lends itself well to exact placement, I don't bother.

works well with 1.75s, cause you got him stepping straight down in a small area.

but seriously- make some dirt holes-

[trappnman]

if your backings are all one- like a bunch of greasewood or sage- then just use that, making your holes at its base, a couple of feet in apart- then use a rock, whatever is native to area, as your back (trap guide)

[thrstyunderwater]

Jun 19, 2011 11:48:37 GMT -6 trappnman said:

why are you going with flat sets and little lure set?

in my opinion, both are good set types but both are also harder to guide, etc. Esp with small traps.

a good dirt hole set made with a large pattern against a good backing, is going to get noticed and worked and your success will improve with the guiding, for the most part, built in.

.



works well with 1.75s, cause you got him stepping straight down in a small area.

but seriously- make some dirt holes-

You're the first person to recommend dirt holes for summer coyotes to me.

[trappnman]

didn't know there were those that adivsed against them during summer.

what was their reasoning?

in any case- hesitate no more!

[bluegrassman]

what about making (kickback) scratch marks? how you do make them in relation to your trap?

[garbage collector]

Reread the advice that was given ya on flats and mafia's. Ya haven't told us where are you missing, inside ,outside or both. How far away and what do they seem to be doing. quick checking, milling. Theres a couple of other things here that aren't adding up . Gotta try something else as Tman suggests, cause ya showed what ya got, and now they know whats what. Next what are you missing a pr, pups , singles or all of the above.
If all else fails givem the 1080

[ChrisM]

Dig a hole and set a trap in front of it. Its not difficult.

[trappnman]

but is it that easy Chris, to consistently take coyotes without noticing and using variables at that set location? including direction of the hole, type of bait, depth and angle of hole, etc?

if it is just that easy, why all the research? Why was invaluable for you and others, to talk to the old wolfers-

why would you need either?

while I don't think coyote trapping is rocket sceince, I do believe they are the most intriguing (read challenging) to consistently trap them as one does a coon (and even there, its more than just digging a hole and putting a trap in front).

[17HMR]

I feel the same as Chris, but would only add location is the key....

[trappnman]

I feel the same as chris as well-

but there is no difference in success, based on size of hole, size of pattern, whether grass or dirt, and so on?

a trap set for a fox, would be the same as set for a coyote?

not arguing with you, but trying to get you to go a little deeper than "dig a hole, set a trap in front of it"

or looking at it thusl- would a guy that has been successful trapping coyotes with dirtholes for years, have the same rate of success (assume both are on location) as a coon trapper setting his first line?

[mostinterestingmanintheworld]

Trying to fence coyotes will do more harm than good in my opinion. If you have something that is already there it's better than putting something there generally. Quit thinking like a cat trapper.

I don't like backing traps off like you describe either, I like to set up tight to the backing.

If you are using something they like they'll usually put their feet down plenty. Make sure the trap is bedded rock solid so they don't feel loose dirt around it.

If you have anthill gravel around sift it all around your backing, really nice camo for flat sets. Also don't use a high backing, something anywhere from a couple inches to about maybe 8 inches high.

If you have access to a big bait or a big skull or something like that put it out in a open area and set out away from it with subtle stuff like urine, droppings or coyote water.

[ChrisM]

Sure! Lots of that stuff has its place Steve, but not to a novice trapper who's asking about reducing misses. Sounds to me like he already has read to much...(the "mafia set") ...and over thinking it. If he attempts to guide too much or "fence" as he calls it. I have a real good idea what his sets will look like. Unnatural and constructed!

It sounds like he is on location, judging by the visits..so just dig a hole and set a trap in front of it. The hole itself will solve a bunch of the issues hes having by guiding the feet and keeping the coyote at the set longer trying to access the odor. And you really have to try to make a hole look unnatural enough to be refused.

[Wright Brothers]

For you guys that trap coyotes year round. Are your sets or approaches different from season to season? Other than den close VS travel ways.

I do not trap them in summer. I ask because I can not seem to grasp how one set works better than another from season to season like I have read. If it were my job I'd set same style but try to be close if pups in birthing den.

[ChrisM]

I don't think I really use any different approach as far as sets go. I use whatever set best fits the location/situation regardless of season.

If I kept good records, I probably tend to use more flat sets in summer but this isn't due to hole sets not being attractive to coyotes in the summer. Rather, because I like my sets to age and blend. With growing vegetation, rain, non-targets ect the flat sets just seem easier to keep working effectively. But if I have the right spot I will use a hole no question...... especially a big hole with a natural bait such as PD.

The real key is locating the family groups and getting on them.

I also tend to use more lure and urine/gland lure in the summer whereas in the fall and winter I use a lot of bait.

[claytoncarr]

Their feet go where their nose goes.

[ChrisM]

Generally. But not real precise.

[claytoncarr]

Jun 21, 2011 12:05:09 GMT -6 ChrisM said:

Generally. But not real precise.

When you say precise, do you mean 9 inches back and 2 inches over?

When you say generally, do you mean a coyote sometimes won't put it's feet by what it smells?

[ChrisM]

9 back and 2 over? No, Im saying that if the feet were always in the same spot in relation to an odor there would be no reason to use guides. That's not the case

"Sometimes?" thats correct. Lots of variables.

[makete]

subtle stuff like urine, droppings or coyote water.

Can someone explain what "coyote water" is?