Hoss
Tenderfoot...
Posts: 2
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Post by Hoss on Jan 28, 2004 20:19:31 GMT -6
Zag, Z, Chris M., etc. : I was wondering your opinions on the T-bar springs. I have been running the standard model on traps #2 and larger. The set-up is 12" of chain, swivel, t-bar, swivel, double stake ring. In my area, the catch is pretty much 50/50-- coyotes to red/greys. I don't know how much it helps on the fox, but this seems weak for the yotes. My question is, would the heavy springs be better than the standards? If I did this would it hurt the fox too much? Seems they would still compress the spring alittle.
Thanks for the help and insight.
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Post by briankroberts on Jan 28, 2004 21:04:37 GMT -6
I have 24 No. 2's and 24 No.4's with 3 swivels 6 links of chain and The heavy duty shock springs, a fox can't hardly move them, a Coyote can bottom them out when he's excited , I'm not sure how much good they really do, I think they take some stress off of the trap and chain. I'm not really sure with the short cahin set up that they do much good, I dunno anybody else got any ideas.
I've only been using them 1 season.....B.....
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Post by trappnman on Jan 28, 2004 21:15:09 GMT -6
Don't have many of them- but as far as I am concerned- on a short tchain their only benefit would be to MAYBE allow single staking.
Regarding damage and pullouts- traps that size without the springs on short chains have minimal foot damage (according to personal observation and the BMPS) and minimal losses- so why bother?
On long chains, I can see the advantage. On our otter setups- we had 24 inch chains with jcconner shock springs- and had zero foot damage.
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Post by dj88ryr on Jan 28, 2004 21:49:14 GMT -6
Exactly why I am going to have shock springs on all of my traps #2 and above after I switch back to longer chains next year, but I am only going 14-18 inches, short chains make resetting a PIA.
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Post by Zagman on Jan 29, 2004 5:49:15 GMT -6
I have a shock spring on everyone of my traps.....but I cannot look you in the eye matter-of-factly and say they are 100% effective. I just ain't sure....
Landowners are impressed by them, though.....
I must admit, I dont see as many of those hitting-the-end-of-the-chain somersalts that I used to on coyotes....I am sure reds still do a lot of the end-over-end deals as you approach them, I just dont catch too many reds.
Common sense leans towards the idea that "they gotta help, rignt?".
I use disposable stakes, so I dont really look at them as a tool to decrease stake pumping.....
I will say that having an even mixture of PITS, JC's, and O'Gorman-type, that I really cannot see that much of a difference in effectiveness between the three.....though in the hand, the JC Connor T-bar is certainly a standout.
While I am not 100% sure of their effectiveness, as I add traps, they will all have shocks on them....so I must have some confidence in them....
As info, I run 18-24" of chain, minimum of 3 swivels, so with the longer chain I think they make more sense.
Zagman
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Post by z on Jan 29, 2004 6:31:12 GMT -6
zags said it all...........Z
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Post by Stef on Jan 29, 2004 14:35:50 GMT -6
Yep Z ;D
I caught a bunch of red fox with them on chains from 15" to 24" inches and I could see how they worked well.
I can honnestly say that I have seen less foot damaged with longer chain with T-Bar shock springs added on them than with short chains traps without them on my own trapline and conditions.
Stef
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Post by PAMINK on Jan 29, 2004 15:33:11 GMT -6
I would like to see JC respond to this post.
I know he's probably lurking out there. ;D Terry
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Post by trappnman on Jan 29, 2004 18:35:49 GMT -6
short chains + small traps = acceptable foot damage ;D
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Post by CoonDuke on Jan 29, 2004 18:50:48 GMT -6
Steve, Don't you see more grass-bound swivels with a short chain?
I used to use a 12" chain. Switched to a 8" this season and had more noticable problems with binding swivels.
I am going back to 12" next season. That is still considered a "short" chain by many...but seems to work better for me than really short chains.
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Post by trappnman on Jan 29, 2004 18:56:04 GMT -6
More grass bound swivels... perhaps, at least on fox. Not so much with coyotes.. but to me, 12' ;D IS a short chain...
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Post by CoonDuke on Jan 29, 2004 19:01:12 GMT -6
Another thing I noticed...it may be coincidence but is something to think about.
I seem to see less bound swivels with a side mounted chain than with a bottom (center) mounted chain. Anybody else notice this?
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Post by Stef on Jan 29, 2004 19:16:31 GMT -6
Coonduke, go with 18+ and Sterling swivels and you won't see that kind of problem 99% of the time.
Stef
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Post by PAMINK on Jan 29, 2004 19:20:46 GMT -6
If swivels were made properly they wouldn't get bound up so easily. Actually it's not the swivel, it's the rivets. Too close to the swivel body. The only great swivel is the Sterling. Terry
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Post by dj88ryr on Jan 29, 2004 19:34:43 GMT -6
CD, I had the same problem with the traps I have that are still side swivelled, bound up with grass and mud, but I also wasn't using Sterlings. Still though, I am going 14-18 ", I believe it will make remakes easier. On short chains the critters totally destroyed the set, and there was always a mound right in the middle
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Post by dj88ryr on Jan 29, 2004 20:17:30 GMT -6
LMAO!! Ok Edge I get the height thing OK. But, I like to reset on my knee, can't do that with my long legs, can I borrow your shorter ones next season ;D. Secondly, as I said, when you keep the critter confined to a 12" diameter circle, he really beats the heck out of that small piece of real estate, and if a dirthole, you have to move the set, because the backing is literally gone. I like using cable stakes too, but I do not like moving them, and as I said in another post, I consider them disposable, but I also like the ability to use the same stake and set over again, and to use it next season. On long chain, the critter stays out at the end of its reach, 18" chain equals 36" circle, the outside gets torn up, but the dirthole is still repairable. I also went to using split rings as a means of quick trap change, I even sold all of my quick links, I like the split rings a lot better. So with the short chain, I was constantly changing traps that I might have been able to get a couple more catches from. But I have plenty so it wasn't a problem that way, just more time consuming.
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Post by dj88ryr on Jan 29, 2004 20:34:44 GMT -6
Most of my canine trapping here is fox, so the cable stakes work real well. I still do the double cross staked rebar anywhere that I think I may encounter Yotes. ( only 3 this year ) I will give that "ratty remake " a try, I guess I have always tried to make my remakes look as much as possible like the original. I don't know why, thats just the way I have always done it, maybe thinking that what fooled the first one had to be replicated to catch another, ( must have burnt too many brain cells in the 70s )
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Post by trappnman on Jan 30, 2004 10:02:21 GMT -6
Whats with the (TX)? Moving south? My meanie self wants to say (Took on a aXe)- but I won't let him! The only advantages I could see with long chains is 1) less junk in the swivels- I do notice as stef has said that reds really rake the duff into the center of the catch circle- esp when caught by the backfoot. Many of the few reds I catch are backfoot caught- a by product of the walkthrough. 2) on coyotes a very long chain- at least 3 feet- will, from what I am told, reduce or eliminate pumping. I could see this- but I guess I can haul in another 18" of rebar and be sure. Coyotes don't have that same dragging habit with the duff- and I find no real problems with the swivels. I consider a 12" chain a short chain. I like that size. Its long enough to be able to put the trap on my knee to set it, and it reduces the lunging on a small trap- #2 and under. When I replace my chains this summer- I'll be replacing them with the same length. Regarding remakes- As Edge says- remake it back into a raggidy type of walkthrough set. I never try to reblend a set back. With stepdowns- I do remake it back into a stepdown- I find as others do that stepdowns are high percentage remake set. Make sure if remaking stepdowns to have that lure hole back as it should be- horizontal and just under the surface. To do that on remakes, I often bring in a rock or weed clump to provide the new roof. I leave the enitre remake circle alone- just redo the stepdown.
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Post by trappnman on Jan 30, 2004 13:34:36 GMT -6
LOL
Either way. Since I'm cutting new chain- I'll probably cut it between 10-12 inches, then add 2 swivels.
What would you consider different for longer checks- more swivels?
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Post by CoonDuke on Jan 30, 2004 13:46:00 GMT -6
Steve, What do you use for a double staking rig?
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