BMP question

[conibear]

I have been following this BMP alittle I seen where the 1.5 coil will not meet the BMP standards . So the question I have after all this BMP bullchit is over. When does all this go into affect. And what happens to all the 1.5 coils a guy owns. and what about other animals. Is there a website a guy can go on the see what has passed and what has not. I hate to go buy alot more traps if they don't even pass or not allowed to use them in the future.

[trappnman]

while the bmps are "recommendations"- keep in mind seat belt laws, speed limit laws, helmet law, etc were also "recommendations" from the feds to the states. When the states declined these recommendations, the feds tied complaince into grant/aid money.

You know what happened.

I have not seen the published coon reports.

The thing that really, really pisses me off is that one can agree with and support 99% of the published bmps results- but if one disagrees with part of them- they are called anti bmps.

call me what you like- but in the coon bmps..... GIGO

If coon bmps become law- and they will in some states, rest assured of that- I'll be sad that "trappers" are doing more harm than the antis in this area- and I'll start trapping fox in the water.

[trappincoyotes39]

Conibear, your questions you ask may never get an answer, as each state has the power to use the BMP as they see fit!!! It will be left up to the states to decide their game rules and regs!!!! The federal government will not be mandating in our lifetimes the BMP"s I can say that with complete confidance.

Very few species have the ability to be controlled by the Feds,as each state has the power to set game laws as they see fit. Tman brings up the seat belt issue, studies have shown #1 they do save lives, #2 were all humans and the criteria doesn't change state to state we all drive vehicles and we are all the same as far as accidents occuring. You don't have different needs or wants when it comes to saving lives!!! years ago no child had to be in a car seat, should we leave that up to the family to decide as well?

Game laws bring in alot of different factors and different species and densitys and the states have the control not the feds. Each state will determine the best use of the BMP data, I feel most won't change much and will use the information when confronted with issues on trapping, and incorperate the data into trappers ed courses. If your state is having issues with deer what do they do? Allow more liberial take and methods, if your state has a big coon problem do you for see them taking away tools that work? If the federal gov was going to take action they could have done it in many ways by now over the last 20+ years how many times has anti trapping legislation came before congress? Alot and no action or mandation takin by congress. It wasn't easy getting the funding for the BMP's in the first place!

If this and if that, alot of if's and I would stay tuned on the coon BMP I bet it will be dealt with again in the near future, also if the true intentions is to mandate laws and rule changes why haven't the Coyote BMP's been enacted in states yet? They have been out for almost 2 years now, anyone hearing of any state using the data word for word or enacting the findings into law?

[trappnman]

I don't think that the bmp people want to enact laws- but thats not the states. The coyote bmps are already being used in many, many states- because the state laws mirror the bmps. Look at the snare bmps- already many states have picked up on them and inacted them. And don't forget the Montana leg. tried to pass a 24 hour check, based on the coyote bmps.

The coon ones on the other hand- are you telling me, that with just about every real coon trap not passing- that all the states involved in doing these studies will just say "cool" and throw the bmps on the shelf? Cool!

Or wil those states involved try to make their efforts and time, expenses pay off by actually USING the bmps?

Dealt with again in the future? I thought they had no money to do retests? And if they did it all correctly the first time, as you steadfastly indicate- why bother? After all, trappers methods can't be a part of the equation- even though they ARE in the coyote bmps- but lets hold the coon one sancrospect and say its only TRAPS being tested. That my friend- is the fatal flaw.

Regarding seatbelts- please show me the study you are looking at the proves seat belts save lives.

I know that some people want you to believe that- as the police always point out "the driver of the ve-hi-cle was run over by a semi, went down a 400 foot sheer embankment, floated down river for 6 miles and then went into a volcano. The driver was not wearing his seatbelt."

The sealtbelt laws were FORCED onto the states- not adopted freely

Also- do you beleive helmets save lives ? (this is a trick question, so be careful)

[trappnman]

The federal government will not be mandating in our lifetimes the BMP"s I can say that with complete confidance.


Really? tell me how you can say that? you have a magic 8 ball?

Its ytour opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

I'll state the exact opposite- that many states will indeed adopt the bmps-

and that too is an opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

[trappincoyotes39]

Ask anyone inlaw enforcement how many dead people they pull from cars with seatbelts and those they have without!!!! Seatbelts save lives that is just a fact!!! Look at Nascar 5 point belts, in recent years head and neck restraints how many would walk away after doing 180mph into a cement wall or the safer barriers with no seat belt and look at how the neck injurys and concussions have dropped since "MANDATING ALL DRIVERS " wear a head and neck restraint!!!! The data is their to prove the point. Seat belts save lives and save hospital time as well.

There is no flaw!!! The traps were tested in the BMP's on coyotes I took part and I could set anywere I pleased!!! The traps came and I used them, all staked sets, all had shock springs, all had to be checked in 24 hrs, bait/lure use was what ever I wanted to use. There was little in the way of methodology enforced with the study.

All these are, are recommendations, what the states do is up to them, each state has the right to use the information and how to use it!!! Nothing has changed and as far as state investment in time, yes some states have time invested others hire private trappers/techs so no real waste of time on the states part. Also the money put into testing and the time attending meetings is nothing so out there that any state would worry about all the time they put into the BMP's, I can tell on the overall scheme of a dept it is very little of the budget or the time used on BMP studies.

Seatbelt laws were wanted by all the insurance companys as well and they have alot of clout in DC, and motor vehicles fall under the DOT in each state and their are federal dollars involved as well. Child restraints and seatbelts save lives, to state otherwise is false. It is not the head ons, because your asking for a higher power to survive that, but other accidents I can tell you the belts save lives. I have 2 friends that are paramedics and they see it all the time, those without belts and those with. I don't think you would find many in EMT field that would agree and tell you seat belts don't save lives.

[trappincoyotes39]

Of the 31,910 vehicle occupants killed in crashes in 2001, 60 percent were not wearing a safety belt. [The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Annual Assessment of Motor Vehicle Crashes, 2001]

Safety belts saved 13,274 lives in 2001, and if all vehicle occupants over age 4 had been wearing safety belts, 7,334 more lives could have been saved, NHTSA estimates. [NHTSA, Traffic Safety Facts Overview, 2001]

Each percentage-point increase in safety belt use represents 2.8 million more people buckling up, 250 more lives saved and 6,400 serious injuries prevented annually, NHTSA estimates. [NHTSA, FY2003 Performance Plan, 2002]

Safety belt use has increased significantly in the past few years, but more must be done. Safety belt use in the United States rose to 75 percent in 2002 from 58 percent in 1994. [NHTSA, National Occupant Protection Use Survey, June 2002]



Seventy-three percent of the people who were in a fatal crash in 2001 and were restrained survived; of those who were not restrained, only 44 percent survived. [NHTSA, Annual Assessment of Motor Vehicle Crashes, 2001]

In fatal crashes, 75 percent of all passenger car occupants who were totally ejected were killed. Only 1 percent of those occupants had been using a safety belt. [NHTSA, Traffic Safety Facts Overview, 2001]



In the past 26 years, safety belts prevented 135,000 fatalities and 3.8 million injuries, saving $585 billion in medical and other costs. If all vehicle occupants had used safety belts during that period, nearly 315,000 deaths and 5.2 million injuries could have been prevented — and $913 billion in costs saved. [NHTSA, Economic Impact of Crashes, 2002]

In 2000, the deaths and serious injuries prevented by safety belts resulted in savings of $50 billion in medical care, lost productivity and other injury-related costs. [NHTSA, Economic Impact of Crashes, 2002]

Motor vehicle crashes in 2000 cost a total of $230.6 billion, an amount equal to 2.3 percent of the gross domestic product, or $820 for every person living in the United States. [NHTSA, Economic Impact of Crashes, 2002]

In 2000, the economic cost to society was more than $977,000 for each crash fatality and an average of $1.1 million for each critically injured person. [NHTSA, Economic Impact of Crashes, 2002]

The general public pays nearly three-quarters of all crash costs, primarily through insurance premiums, taxes, delays and lost productivity. [NHTSA, Economic Impact of Crashes, 2002]



In 2001, 64 percent of all 18- to 34-year-old passenger vehicle occupants who were killed or severely injured in crashes were not wearing safety belts. By comparison, among vehicle occupants age 35 and older who were killed or severely injured in crashes, 48 percent were not buckled up. [Fatality Analysis Reporting System, 2001 Annual Report File (ARF)]

In 2001, 68 percent of the 18- to 34-year-old male passenger vehicle occupants who were killed or severely injured in crashes were not wearing safety belts. Fifty-four percent of the women age 18 to 34 who were killed or severely injured in crashes were not buckled up. [Fatality Analysis Reporting System, 2001 Annual Report File (ARF)]

Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death for people age 15 to 24 in the United States. [National Center for Health Statistics, National Vital Statistics Report, 2002]

In 2001, 63 percent of 16- to 20-year-old drivers and passengers killed or seriously injured in crashes were not wearing a safety belt. [Fatality Analysis Reporting System, 2001 Annual Report File (ARF)]

In 2001, the economic cost of police-reported crashes involving drivers age 15 to 20 was about $42.3 billion. [NHTSA, Traffic Safety Facts 2001 –Young Drivers]





Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death for African Americans from birth through age 14 and are the second leading cause of death for African Americans 15 to 24 years old. [Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, 1998]

Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death for Hispanics age one to 34 and the third leading cause of death for all Hispanics, surpassed only by heart disease and cancer. [Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, 2000]

Tman here is some good reading on the whole issue of seatbelts!!!



Safety belt use in rural areas was 73 percent in 2002, slightly below the 75 percent national average. [NHTSA, National Occupant Protection Use Survey, June 2002]

Safety belt use by pickup truck occupants is about 64 percent, among the lowest for any demographic group. [NHTSA, National Occupant Protection Use Survey, June 2002]

[trappnman]

nice article- but it proves nothing, as you I am sure know. The simple ratio of use/injuries is the key- and to where and how the vehicle is used. Generalities mean nothing except to insurance people. For every story on how someone went through a windshield- there is a similar story as to how the occupants AVOIDED injury because of no seat beats.

I don't drive a race car- do you? And you are missing the point- the point is simply this- the use of seat belts is MANDATED by the gov. States had choice for a while, then were forced into compliance and even now- federal grants are being issued to step up law enforcement
just for seat belt violations.

I don't need big brother telling me how to run my life- smoking, seat belts, helmets, etc is MY business. And don't give me the crap about public welfare- that argument was shown to have more holes than Henry's bucket when brought into the light of day when we got the helmet laws repealed here in MN.

In any case- since you are not the head bmp guru in the United States- your assurances and opinions that the bmps won't be adopted by the states, means nothing.

My mean little also.

But- some clues are out there. 1) WI ran there own bmp study- and several states have picked up this study almost verbatim- and applied it to cable restraints in their states. This isn't conjecture, its a fact.

2) a Montana state senator introduced a law mandating a 24 hour check on traps in Montana- his evidence for this was the coyote bmps. The bill was defeated- this time.

What will be next? I don't know, and neither will you. With some supporters like yourself claiming ALL bmps are created equal and that no one dare question the results- I see more troubles on the horizon.

I have no doubt, no doubt in the world that within 5 years, some states will be mandating the use of specific traps- based o n the bmp studies. And truth be told- thats the logical outcome of such studies- their raison d'etre.

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman I give you hard factual evidance and you spin it and say it doesn't prove nothing? Come on man!!!!! NHTSA is the real deal they have compiled the data from all reported collisions in the US!!!! The were and how the vehicles is used? Doesn't matter if the vehicle is out on the street and moving and hits something else solid what is the end result and did the seat belt help or hinder the crash is all that matters.
Show me the study that shows those not wearing belts have saved more lives. I'm not missing the point, we are all taxpayers and we all saved billions from us having to buckle up that is fact plain and simple!!! It is to the benefit of the greater good, yes some laws are enacted for this reason like it or not. Just because you don't like the law doesn't make it a bad law!!!!

The BMP's deal with wildlife which is setup under the government to be controlled by the states for the most part, exception be endangred species and migratory birds. If the feds were going to step in and mandate look at the deer numbers across the US and the vehicle collisions, why haven't they mandated such for culling deer? The deer issue has been with us for at least 10+ years? The states have the right because it is the states wildlife to manage and control for the best needs of the people of each state!!! You like to throw out that big brother will mandate this or that, but with wildlife it just won't work that way!!!!

If fed gov gets involved in the control and reg process of each state on wildlife then it takes fed dollars to do so, I don't think many anti groups would be real happy with congress or a president who mandates game laws and then gives their tax money to promote hunting/trapping etc. your other points we have been over already Wis and the other states chose to do so no one twisted their arm correct? The states have the right to change rules/regs when they deem it needed or wanted. Nothing new!

The guy from Montana have a name? I bet he has some pressure or had some ties with anti groups! That happens in congress all the time!!! Look at those who have supported US trap ban legislation they have some tie to the very group looking to do things like this!!! Neither passed so tell me how the BMP made this such a rare occurance in government?

You can question results but just because you question them doesn't make them not factual!!! You as most people question things they don't like and leave the things that fit our agendas alone and take as gospel! Human nature.The studys need to be kept on a level field and show no bias to one species over another, we have been over this, the whole point is best management practices, not those practicies everyone likes past or present unless they can achieve the results set forth and agreed upon. We will never see eye to eye because of the coon BMP, but if I didn't think the BMP had good in it I wouldn't support it plain and simple. When I first heard of the whole concept I was mad and worried but then the information I received and being involved showed me this can be of real benefit to trappers and helping to defeat the anti groups in a big way, I still feel the big issue is state control and keep that in mind might just change some outlook on the whole deal,BMP or not the states can change their game laws as they see fit look at Colorado,California,Washington,Mass, Arizona they were all state mandates to outlaw trapping!!! it was doneby the people of each state, and we can save others in the same manner and gain thsoe states back I hope with good sound, non bias factual information from the BMP's. I'm done on this one as well.

[foxtail]

In the past 26 years, safety belts prevented 135,000 fatalities and 3.8 million injuries, saving $585 billion in medical and other costs. If all vehicle occupants had used safety belts during that period, nearly 315,000 deaths and 5.2 million injuries could have been prevented — and $913 billion in costs saved. [NHTSA, Economic Impact of Crashes, 2002]

Based upon what evidence? I can say that I have saved the local farmers 1.5 million dollars in the past year because I have trapped the coon,beav, and possums which had, were doing, or were going to do damage of some sort to their crops, animals or families through bites, parisites and illnesses. I can't provide concrete proof of this and neither can the NHTSA. Only God can concretely say what would have happened if XXXX had or had not happened.

In 2000, the deaths and serious injuries prevented by safety belts resulted in savings of $50 billion in medical care, lost productivity and other injury-related costs. [NHTSA, Economic Impact of Crashes, 2002]

Same bullsh it as above


The bottom line is that the BMPs are a tool to be used against the trappers by those who oppose us, given to them by a bunch of pussies who are too chickenshit to tell the antis and competition to kiss our asses.

[trappincoyotes39]

Foxtail you are something as well. They can prove it through data they collect and doing math, again I see your one of those that know more than everyone else too. The NHTSA does what this data shows and that collect data to see what works and what doesn't, next you'll tell me the earth is flat because I posted it is round!!! You have a bais against me and the BMP's their fore your credit is low!!!!! I didn't give you stats from a bias group like one might find from seatbelt choice .com, who is a liberial group looking to spin things in their favor, if you new anything then you would know this group is highly repsected for their findings.

You can't back up your claims with facts so you discount the rest with slander and ridicolous statements thats what people do when they are loosing a debate. These "FACTS" can be proven out with the data that supports them and by doing the math to find loss of income, cost of medical care and autopsys on people who died and what could have prevented death, amongst other factors that can lead to a factual outcome, not everything in life is gray area there is a black/white and a right and a wrong!!!

The bottom line is that the BMPs are a tool to be used against the trappers by those who oppose us, given to them by a bunch of pussies who are too chickenshit to tell the antis and competition to kiss our asses.

What competition? The antis are not the people you really need to be concerned about telling off!!!! If you do not, I'll repeat that so you get it, if you do not inform and educate and show factual findings to the "GENERAL PUBLIC" you will stand the chance of loosing trapping in your state, not a hard concept my man, ask those in the states that have lost trapping, do you think the "your a bunch of pussies" just leave us the heck alone to do our thing would have kept the right to trap in those states? Be real man, be real!!! Those people lost not because of the antis vote it self but from the general public and their vote!! The campaign was much more effective for groups like HSUS and PETA than the trappers org, look and see how much state Game Dept support came? They didn't have the facts to help out much in dealing with humane issues of trapping, read the polls on who people trust for information about trapping before you rant and rave about we need the strong arm to be effective, because your living in denial if you think that approach will keep trapping around!

If you have the factual evidance of loss, productivity, and other factors you could prove your case out on what you save your farmers, again their is black and white with good data and science. Look at the study done by Delta waterfowl and how they showed trapping has helped nesting of waterfowl, read it and then tell me that is bunk too!!!! See you won't because it is pro trapping and I didn't post on it, but you can have good science and data and know to a high degree things that take place and why in the world, not everything in print is opinion, there are facts out there!!!!!

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman look up their home site they do crash test studies and a ton of work involved into saving lives on Americas roadways, you call it a bogus study? That is hilarious? Show me the factual study and from a group like NHTSA that states seat belts are nothing but a hinderance and increase death and I'll recant what I have posted. Also tell me were I can get a copy of the Minn study on helmets I would love to read it!!

I will state that it was not a fact on my part that the BMP's won't be inacted from this by the federal governemnt, but I have given proof that is not the way things go when dealing with wildlife, could it happen sure, what % of probabilty would it be? You seem to think greater than 50% I think way lower than that!!!!

To discount the work done by a highly reconized organization because it differs from your opinion, and you have no data to back up your opinion and right it all off as BS and bogus makes who's stance look weak? The group with data and science or the one just blowing hot air on nothing more than opinion?

They have noreason to bias anything as their in the business of saving lives, if something better than a standard belt comes up their going to test it and implament it to save lives and dollars!!!! These studies are not done for insurance companys but to save lives more so, and what is wrong with paying cheaper insurance rates? I should pay higher rates because some choose not to protect themselves and get injured without insurance then you and I foot the bill? Sounds great to me?

Yes I deny this, with your part of more than willing who is this you speak of? What state is more than willing and what state has enacted the BMP"s so far? Naive about regulatory process? I think not and I also think there are millions of studys done on many things, that if 5% were enacted in to law were would we be? Information gathering is done for many reasons and not even a few% ever make into laws!!!

[trappnman]

Going to the web and picking the first study that "proves" your point of view- isn't research. Its going to the web and picking the first study that appeared when you googled "seatbelt use". Research is pul;ling 15 or 20 studies -form a variety of sources- then comparing them, crosschecking them and then coming up with a conclusion.

As I said before, believe what you want-

btw- I'd drop the "public paying for all those non insured people" arguement- its a non started- a thought picked up and repeated- but that is WRONG. The same arguement was used in the helmet law fight- and it was shot down with facts.

Thats enough on this- we've both said our case and I'll delete anything further that pertains to it.

Its side issue that has no meaning in the bmp discussion save a mention to make a point about regulations- and whether seatbelts are good or bad- its a regualtion that was FORCED onto the states because NOT to inact seatbeat laws, as many states did not- would have cost the stares millions in funding. Typical blackmail from the feds to the states- one practiced on many issues.

---------------------------------------------------------

How about PA and cable restraints?

How about MO with cable restraints?

Whats your view of what hapened in Montana? This is the break in the dam and no little dutchboy standing by.

Wow- already the bmps are having an inpact in state houses.

Perhaps you are going to argue that the WI study wasn't a bmp? Well, you can argue that, but by ANY definition of the words- they are. And they were done by ONE state for ONE state- yet states 1000 miles away and in a different world are adopting these SAME bmp regulations.

Whats there to deny?

I find it interesting that you stated "and I would stay tuned on the coon BMP I bet it will be dealt with again in the near future"

How or why would they do that? According to you, they have done a job Jesus would be proud of- its perfect, its 'da bomb.

The coon bmps aren't worth the paper they are written on - my opinion based on 1000s of coon caught with my methods, methods I freely share with those having open minds. Methods that DO reduce chewing. Methods that take into account a coons behavior and USE it to reduce chewing- instead of making protocal that will make ANY coon chew,

bmp meeting- all the worlds best coon trappers in attendance... lets see...what should we decide for protocal... I know, I know! we will stake that coon out in the open with no cover, no entanglement, make sure hes sitting high on dry land, and lets see what happens.

Jeepers George....what happened?

They chewed little buddy, they chewed...

so sad, so sorry....but what could we do?

What indeed....

If its brown and smells like a barn, I don't have to taste it to call it what it is...

[trappincoyotes39]

The BMPs are changing documents and things can be retested in the future, will they all that failed for any BMP study who knows, but these are not set in stone!!!! If they have funding then they will test new traps, that is how the Montana got a shot it was a second testing of coyote traps in the western that they recieved the opportunity to be tested!!!!

I really hope they explore your option and we will see the overall scoring of this if it works, I'll be the first to congratulate you on it!!!! But then you'll be complaining the next time they don't do as you wish done or when they start mandating methods with all recommendations given in the print forms!!!!! You want methods tested to insure a better fate in your circumstances, but not all will agree with you on this either!!! Your 1,000's of coons may be a good draw, but why do you dismiss the 2 fellows that took over 1,000 coons each in grizz's in 1 season? They have alot of coon experiance with them and I would bet they would say the grizz is a great coon trap after all 1,000 ea couldn't be too bad could it? Maybe it doesn't have all the down falls you seem to think they do? Just a thought, thanks bryce for having an open mind, thats all anyone must have without it you have a hard time to find the real truth on things.

[Steve Gappa]

the griz is a good trap- but since I am trapping for a livng this time of year- I would ask these men how many fox, how many coyotes, how many mink they caught in them.

If I just wanted coon numbers, I'd go back to running hounds.

but once again a side point.

I rest my case.

[foxtail]

Foxtail you are something as well.

Goddamned right I am and I am not going anywhere.

I will keep fighting for what is right until I draw my last breath.

But you are right, the antis are not the people we need to convince and we will never do that anyway. Those people and their ilk will never see the light.

You can tell an elephant it is a rat but it will never believe it.

The competition you question is the competing furfarmers in the EU.

They don't want the competition from us unless they can not produce that product themselves and can make money from it.

And another thing, you fail to see the big picture as I clearly spelled it out in the other post.

ONLY GOD CAN TELL US WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IN A SITUATION WHICH HAS NOT HAPPENED.

This is not a book and the group you cite is not an author of good fiction where they can choose the ending.

When you make up figures about a hypothetical situation and try to pass them off as fact, you are writing fiction.

Plain and simple.

[SgtWal]

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that my life is MINE. Not the Government's, not Society's, not my Great Uncle Fred's. It's mine. If I choose to sky dive, drive fast, hunt, work out, eat junk food, or what ever it's my body and my life.
NO ONE. Has any right to mandate that I should or shouldn't do ANYTHING for my own good.
Seat belts save lives, so will staying out of airplanes, caves, and burning buildings. So what?
What gives ANYONE the right to say how I choose to live? What risks I choose to take?
Any society that places the rights and good of society above the rights of the individual is moving toward slavery.
The original post was about what would happen if the BMP standards were to be codified in his state. IF that were to happen, he would have to use only BMP acceptable traps for the species he was after. Now hard hard was that to figure out?
Sheeeeesh, it was a what if question, not a declaration of war for Pete's sake.
Hey Conibear, Keep tabs on your State DNR folks and speak up when you get the chance. Don't rely on anyone to do it for you.


wayne

[trappincoyotes39]

The BMP has little to do with the EU fur deal on the US end wild fur versus ranch raised, not the sole reason for BMP's !!!

Tman tell me how many coyotes you catch and hold in your 1.5's annually? So should we do across the board testing take one trap, test all species and weigh out the average scores for a pass/fail then? Does that sound logical to you and would you stand behind the findings?

I know this started as a BMP post but after some of the comments posted it is just tough to let this go if you are trully 100% behind these statements or pissed at me because I'm pro BMP and I have some insite on the matter? Good night fellas !

[Steve Gappa]

I accidently delted this post by bryce- so here it is in its entirety.
IMHO,
BMPS for trapping and many other consumptive uses are in their beginning stages. There is a lot of energy at the Federal and International level by Wildlife Biologists to have BMPs. They will happen with us or with out us.
If we (some) jump on the BMP wagon and participate in their studies and recommendations we are condemned by our peers. There are 145,000 licensed trappers in the USA and 300 million people. To be called an anti by that few is not a horribly intimidating thing.
To set on the sidelines and stonewall, badmouth and try to stop BMPs to me is not in our best interest.
So for me I am a very cautiously optimistic person when regarding BMPs. Both national trapping organizations have adopted a don't want or tolerance stance to date.
If I want to have a voice in BMPs and the future of trapping in my region I may best do that outside of either of those organizations.
Many of the other posts, about coons and hunting point out a real fact that we all must address. Coons, deer, skunks, otters whatever can and will be controlled by any and all units of government and agencies as wanted and needed. It just may be by totally different persons and methods than is occurring now. For centuries sports persons have been asked to participate in wildlife management and control. There may become a day when we may not be asked or there are other more effective ways to control issues and species.
I plan to trap for a few years. If I have to change my traps and methods for species such as a coon I can and I will. I don't like to but I will.
right now it would probably cost me a couple hundred bucks to retool my dry land coon traps. Wow a set of crappy left-handed used golf clubs costs more than that.
Cost is not the factor here. The government will listen to all sides and make their decision based on best science and best political outcomes regardless of cost. That cost will just get passed on.
I will take my chances working with and working to influence the biologists and others. That as I am reading is a very unpopular stance to have if one was in leadership in any of our trapping organizations. Therefore it is not good for me to involve myself in those organizations at this time or maybe ever.
As much in denial and as dysfunctional as the trapper organizations are right now as to the desire to complete this BMP process and study we are extremely fortunate that a few very strongly pro BMP trappers are not working to implement them where ever possible.
In respect to the general position of many trappers being opposed or neutral at best to BMPs I do not push hard to advance the BMPs. I am reading and researching to find more data and information. When I am satisfied that the energy in the BMPs will continue and the trapping assns just stand aside I will offer more input into that process.

Bryce

[Steve Gappa]

I catch from 2-6 coyotes in 1.5s every year- 2 this year.

You would think that someone with so much insight- would find and debate the real issues here.

I honestly cannot see how you can read other posts in their entirety, because you are off the mark repeatedly.

Please take note of the BOLD questions, and if you wish to seriously debate this issue, then do it correctly and answer the points brought up in the debate.

Take the seatbelts for example. It was mentioned ONLY to show how gov forces things onto the states. It was mentioned with a host of other things. Thats a fact you cannot argue, so you try to argue the shape of the table.

The point was made to show that in many things- the feds mandate to the states- things the states do not want to do. Do you consider this TRUE or FALSE.


why not answer my questions- I believe this is the 4th time I've asked- do you deny that several states are adopting bmps as we speak or as a done deal? That my friend is a FACT- not an insight.

So its pretty easy to see where more states will adopt more bmps. YOU think this is wrong. Great- now thats what we call an opinion, not an insight from God.

You also ignored the question on why you feel the coon bmps should be revisited (your words).

Of course they should be- but up until that post, you steadfastly refused this option- saying time and money wasn't there and did we want them to test every methods, trap out there.

Yes, I do- if they are methods and traps in common use and methods and traps that give acceptable results.

Instead, you pick all these red herrings, punctuate all your remarks with !!!!!!! and in general, are showing little respect for those that differ with you.