50% of CRP to be gone in the next few years!!!

[trappnman]

interesting poists bryce....

[td]

A lot of the farmers in my area don't give a hoot about wildlife. One guy bought some native grass, worked and planted it and is probably just waiting until it's eligible for crp. He and a few other landowners are upset because the county won't let wind farms on THEIR LAND, a project that will benefit the crooked developers and a few landowners and will definitely have to be subsidized by tax paying schmucks like
me .......and it won't work. A developer would build wo/subsidies and he said no. Of course, our wonderful gov't, in an attempt to look like they are doing something on the energy front, hand out subsidies for this crap like it's cheap candy. Whoops, sorry, off subject.

Rural communities were mentioned above. What about the businesses that are dependent on farming? Where are the subsidies for the service stations, implement dealers, cafes, etc,etc?

I want a trapping subsidy. People used to make a living at it. Oh wait.......we can't eat it. Well, i guess we could eat coons, beaver, muskrat. We wouldn't need any cows, other than grass fed, or hogs. Therefore, no grain, other than some wheat for bread. Hell, I could grow that in my back yard or make acorn bread like the Indians. Wait, wo/grain farming, the coon,beav,rat,etc population would collapse and a bunch would starve but that might not be so bad, ............ the hunters,trappers and fishermen would survive. Please don't bring the rest of the world into this. ;D

My great uncle Walter in his waning years was well known for his saying that ".....the whole damn world's going to hell." I think he was right, just a little early. Wait until we run out of oil. If everything doesn't get nuked first, it will happen. ;D

[trappincoyotes39]

Bryce were do all the pheasants go after the corn and beans are picked??? What is the best cover we can give them after harvest? decent falls make for early harvest and those birds will go to large tracts and small in the area and do really well and gives them great winter habitat.

I know of a 600 acre parcel state owned and let go back to natural grasses many years ago, go their in November with a good dog and the pheasant numbers are awsome, the fields are adjacent private owned but once harvested the birds head for the CRP.

You look back to the slough days and the tall grasses and sedges that were found back then and look at the bird numbers then compaired to the late 70's and early 80's big time differance, the cover it provides is crucial for winter survival, picke corn or bean fields in Jan_March don't offer much for birds,deer,rabbitts coyotes or much else in the wild world. Their all licked clean and barren snow drifted and no benefit to wildlife, crp can house much wildlife in larger tracks and make a big differance in carry over to spring.
Also some of the biggest bucks I hear of getting harvested come from small tracts of CRP, were most guys won't go or don't know about because it is 20-40 acres and they think the big ones are in the big timber or large land features, those bucks get done with the rut and they need the "rest up" time and a small tracts of CRP. The same for the massive size CRP tracts, alot won't walk it because it takes work and looks overbearing, but it will hold big deer!!!

[bblwi]

TC 35 I have no doubt that a section of CRP with cropped fields all around will hold awesome numbers of pheasants. My thoughts were along the lines that a mix of environmentally sound cropping programs and CRP even if that is less CRP would be a sound way to maximize biomass per acre, economic return and keep the environment sound. That may not be maximum pheasants or rabbits but the carrying capacity of a diverse wildlife in a diverse landscape is almost always greater than vast sections of mono cultures with less stratification of layers, canopies and plant types. After all most of the reason to revert the land back to grass was to re-establish native species and there is not much native about a pheasant. A very excellent species and one with economic clout I may add but an exotic. Maximizing pheasants may be what many want but I still believe in the more diverse and native ecosystem that includes more production agriculture. I believe the Aldo Leopold idea of multiple use and wise use.

Bryce

[Coonhusker]

www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/606945/posts

CRP-just another program for our Poor farmers. Lets let the private sector fund this.

[trappincoyotes39]

coonhusker the private sector may fund this in the future it still doesn't lessen your tax obligation!!!! The money will revert from CRP payments to more crop subsidies as once the ground is no longer being paid on the CRP side it will be paid at a much higher rate on the crop side!!!!!

I wouldn't call what is enrolled now into the program or the average sized acreage enrolled as "vast" sections of mono culture. National forest, national grasslands you may call or could call them massive size mono culture yet still holds diverse species of wildlife.

Yes the more edge the better and crp must maintain or the edge will get reduced as well, the 300 acre corn field next to 250 CRP will now be all beans and the 200 acres of beans and 90 acres of CRP next year wil become corn weres the edge in that? The 400 acres of sunflowers next to 300 acres of CRP no more edge in the comming years, if no crp what will replace it as the edge In some areas?

Most grain to grain doesn't produce the edge that is trully benfical to many species nore provide much in the way of winter cover either.

[Coonhusker]

I dont expect it to lesson my tax obligation!!!! I just think that if the public is expected to fund a program like crp than it ought to be open to all the public to enjoy. It would be true that to subsidize this many acres of crops would cost alot more than paying a crp payment, that is why I dont support subsidies either. The fact of the matter is that alot of this crp wouldnt even have been broke out of true native grass, if it not for the fact that it could be sewn back to grass for a payment. By the way why should I feel obligated to let some of my tax dollars go to big corperate farms that bring in huge amounts of revenue already?? You should see the new house a farmer by Table Rock, Ne built recently. Has a big screen TV that folds down from the ceiling by a remote control, so the guy can watch tv in his recliner, sounds like he needs a safety net, huh??
www.ewg.org/farm/persondetail.php?custnumber=007938650

[trappincoyotes39]

Wrong!!! The ground was taken out of natural states because of production, not the fact that one day it may be put back into a natural state!!!! When crop prices rose so did production, many wetlands where drained and put into production, thats why the water ways and natural wetlands are protected today!!!
Not all farmers are this way, a small portion but just like trapping those that were in it for the quick buck. I can tell you CRP payments versus crop payments big differance and the benifactor in crop payments is not what wildlife benfits from crp and not all wildlife lives in 400 acres, you need that cover to over winter many species without we will have less of many species, not doubt about that. Cost to benefit on CRP is far better and cheaper to tax payers than crop payments.

[Coonhusker]

To lower production eih??? Why is it then that alot of these guys that signed up farms in crp turn around and buy more farms and doze all the trees and hedgerows in then?? We used to have a ton of hedgerows around that would hold all kinds of wildlife, not anymore. A guy by town here that has a lot of acres of crp cleared off 80 acres of trees 6 years ago. That farm is all on a steep hill, guess what still no terraces on it!! Conservation huh, ya right!! And please answer my question, Why should I feel obligated to fund HUGE corperate farms??

[trappnman]

to lower production was an original goal- the program has since mutated.

The fact of the matter is that alot of this crp wouldnt even have been broke out of true native grass, if it not for the fact that it could be sewn back to grass for a payment.

This is very true around here- much of the crp is land that CANNOT be farmed at a profit, so an attempt is made for 3 years- then it can be put in set aside.

I'm all for crp- but the reality is, that without the payments- much of it would still be the way it is- because its NOT economical to farm it- and thats still the bottom line. Farmers might farm a section for a $1 an acre profit- but they will not do the same for $1 an acre loss....

[trappincoyotes39]

Guys buying farms and dozing up hedge rows sounds like more crop production practices than set aside acres. You can't enroll all the ground you want into crp!!! They have a cap and also do you think 40.00-51.00 per acre is enough payment to keep buying more ground in the 450.00-1000.00+ acre bracket? How many years does it need to be enrolled to make back on that ground? Plus taxes and interest?

The crop payments are many fold of crp stats 1.9 billion paid on 34.6 million acres of CRP in the US in 1996, crp is good for nature and the wildlife no 2 ways around it, we will all see the impact if some who get their way nock it down to the 50% some are talking about it going, then more production ground means less pricing on crops and higher crop payments from the tax payers all helping those corperate farms you speak of.

Your question:And please answer my question, Why should I feel obligated to fund HUGE corperate farms??

You shouldn't but that is the way it is going. Do you know that Brazil and Argentina grow more soy beans than the US? Did you know they can/will sell those beans cheaper to other countrys than the US? It is global economics anymore, we produce far more than the US can use in crops so we must be priced decent or our foreign markets will be gone to other countrys. Inside the US people are only going to pay so much for any goods or switch to something different at a cheaper price!!! Corperate farms maximize acres and people who work for them, the more acres you farm the more cost effective everything gets for you!!!

Look at the proteins I can by pork lion on sale for 1.99 lb a good lean loin. How much are beef loins? Well over 10.00 per lb? The pork producers have gotten good at having big confinments and streamline to make their protein source very competive on pricing, chickens the same way, beef is the looser while many love beef the price latley has cost them both domestic and foreign sales!!!

To feed my family ribeye would cost 12.00 roughly per meal, I can do pork loin for 4.00 a meal and I can do chicken in that range as well. If you notice hogs have become a much leaner protein in the last 10-15 years and so has beef, due to healthy demands from the people buying it, it seems it cost more to bring in lean beef than leaner pork.

The whole point is the bigger an operation if well run,you can produce the product at a cheaper price and still have profits. You have buying power for most goods it takes to produce your product!!! The corperate farms aren't going anywere, it is a sad thing but unless people are willing to spend more for their grocerys the family farm will not be like we are accustomed too, they will be lease farmers working for a big corperate owner!!!

It is the Wal Mart mentality, many say wal mart is a bad place, they run everyone local out of business, but we have NO ONE to blame except for all who go through the Wal mart doors!!! People shop their because they can buy goods cheaper and sell goods cheaper!!! They have value and selection above and beyond most other stores, they can buy cheaper because they have the marketing power, they don't buy a semi load of this or that, they buy 100's of semi loads of each product!!! Making it cheaper, if the companys want to move massive amounts of product or have their items in wal marts they must meet wal mart on pricing or they find another supplier. WE can blame us all, we want to have our dollars go as far as possible and thats why people flock to wal marts by the millions!!!!

I knwo this kind of got off the point,but I made statements as to why family farms are going by the wayside, not to mention urban spraul, many smaller farmers get offers of 2,000-4,000 per acre for their ground for town homes, new housing sections etc, they sell and retire happy , how many people in this day and age can say yep I want to be a farmer and go out buy lnad,equipment and have operating capitol to make it run and show a profit?? None would be my answer. So the big guys over time eat up the little guys. This happens alot more in all walks of business than alot of people think about.

[trappincoyotes39]

I'm all for crp- but the reality is, that without the payments- much of it would still be the way it is- because its NOT economical to farm it- and thats still the bottom line. Farmers might farm a section for a $1 an acre profit- but they will not do the same for $1 an acre loss....

No one is farming anything to make a buck an acre!!!!!! Crop payments are guranteed on an established yield!!!!! You get the yield set then farm it and it doesn't matter what your getting actual off the ground you get the 5 year or so average price paid to you!!!!


I'm all for crp- but the reality is, that without the payments- much of it would still be the way it is- because its NOT economical to farm it-.

I don't see that as good business. Who would just let land lay and pay property taxes on something that is not making a return? Nor would you have any tax deduction because there was nothing put into the ground. I don't know many farmers that can afford to leave a few hundered acres just sit and pay taxes and insurance on it, without turning dollars from it in some way good or bad.

[trappnman]

of course its not $1 an acre- thats what we call "making a point".]

If the land cannot be farmed at a profit- what are they going to do with it?

let it lay, or let it lay.

Thats just a fact. Turn a dollar? Tell me how. Better yet- tell all the farmers around here- I'm sure they would like to know.

Bottom line- 50% reduction of crp probably will have little inpact as a whole-

[trappincoyotes39]

Logging can turn a "good dollar", pay to hunt a bad deal but one that many will do to hunt in your state those that come to mine to hunt deer tell me they have a hard time hunting everything is spoken for!!! Then comes the request not to trap because my high dollar deer hunters will be here and I don't wan' the deer spooked! Run cattle on the ground. Tman I knwo your area and I know alot isn't good crop ground with all the hills and trees and such, I grew up in the same kind of area, terrace farming was big in the late 70's and early 80's due to increased production. Mineral rights are becomming more of an issue in NE Iowa, the farm my family hunted on for 43 years has just been sold for 3,500 an acre no farm ground Miss River Bluff, timber and rock but beneath that rock some type of sand that is in big need in Texas for filling in Natural Gas wheep holes? I don't know all the details my family was just informed this past weekend last year of hunting!!!! He sold $80,000 worth of Black Walnut and Oak and then the Texas operation will start to extract the sand in the spring.

There are plenty of ways to make money off of ground, heck, raise Elk and sell nothing but the antlers I know a guy that does that as well. The Chinese buy it for medicinal purpose. The thing is no good farmer will let any ground sit for any period without turning a dollar. Unless they can afford too.

Your wrong on your 50% won't have an impact keep a close eye in the comming years to the numbers on many species you will see a decline, again I'm talking about the nation as a whole not just your little area in SE Minn. It will all have a direct impact on people. I know a guy that had lease ground to deer hunt in Iowa, lost it because the landowner raised the lease 2 fold, now he comes west to hunt because he has the cash from the local lease ground. Those with money in SE Minn whop may have come west to hunt birds/deer etc, if the numbers drop will stay home and lease local hunting ground do their own thing to a degree and could impact people that way as well. It does happen and if landowners want to make money they can!!!! Good ground is a valueable asset and trades hands all the time. It could be you or I that gets the short end on a sale or lease deal!!!

All it takes is some national reconition look at southern Iowa and Illinois now that these are the places the "top" hunting shows go to whack the 30 point bucks ground is being gobbled up on lease and sales,lease rights are running 10.00-20.00 per acre just for hunting rights and the landowner can do whatever just as long as those with the money have a private hunting area!!!!!

[trappnman]

I guess thats where MN is blessed- we have 1000s and 1000s of acres of public hunting land- plus state foresty land that is open to public hunting. The best hunting land is usually the public land simply because its rough, hilly, swampy- non farm type ground.

If the farmers could make money off the land- most of it would NOT be in CRP to begin with. When farm land can be leased at $120-$140 an acre and pasture for about the same per cow per year- its pretty poor land that GOES into crp.

Much of that land- would be the same.

Hey- I like crp as much as the next guy.

[Coonhusker]

Well lets see, in your opinion we should have very large "efficient" farms?? I dont see it that way. I say take away the government money and let everyone play on a level playing field. How could a small farmer even consider the programs healthy for them. Lets say a small farmer might bring in $15,000 in a year from government hand outs, while the bigger guys are bringing in $100,000 a year, who is going to be bidding up the land at the next auction??? When will it be to far gone before you realize that these welfare checks are ruining the small guys..............when we have 50 farmers left, one for each state, then should we still be paying them, sounds like socialism to me. Your right about the cost of getting into farming. I cant imagine anyone that is not born into it being able to start from scratch and make a living. If what your saying is true and these BIG farmers cannt make it without help from uncle sam, then why not take them away and let someone else try?? As far as prices I would say that the farmers have it in there power to set the price they want for there products. Withhold them for a couple of years and see what the price of food would do.

[trappincoyotes39]

good point on withholding problem is they can't ! Why withhold when you get a guaranteed payment from the government? Then tell your banker I need to prove a point so there will be no payments made this year? I'm thinking the bank won't see it this way. Foreclosure would be sure to happen.

Not the check ruining farming the cost of doing global business. Look at what milk production has done the past twenty years. California is now #1 in milk production and they don't milk 50-60 head per operator, there milking big numbers of cows. My uncle had a dairy farm for 29 years and took part in the milk dumping in the 80's yes it helped some, but when all cost go up and your product doesn't keep pace price wise, you need more production to offset rising cost. I'm not a big corperate farm lover, but it is what is needed for US AG in alot of repsects to stay a major player in all markets.

I don't see any producer looking to bid up land cost as to all it effects the bottom line, a graduated scale but will cost big producers as well. The rising cost of land has more to do with urban sprawl versus bigger producers looking to "force" the small guy out, in reality time will do that! Health care, raising a family, and "most" small farmers take second jobs or have their wives work fulltime away from the farm to make ends meet, a strong cattle market has helped many but the cattle market ebbs and flows like anything else. It used to be standard all had a few hogs,cattle and sheep, now you specialize in 1 area and try to make your money that way.