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Post by trappnman on Mar 29, 2005 9:44:12 GMT -6
any word on the protocol for any possible skunk bmps?
Interesting challenge-
Double jawed traps won't work-
dj were invented for 1 season and one reason only- and thats old Pepe LePhew.....
and the dj traps worked quite well for their intended purpose- securing enough of the leg, so that when a skunk chewed off the bototm of his numbed foot- he wouldn't escape.
Only skunk specific trap I see out there is a cage trap.
Will footholds be rendered obsolete for skunks?
you might want to consider possums also-
a stoploss would work cause possums react just like muskrats in a trap- but wasn't the stoploss deemed impractical as a land trap in the coon "protocol"?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 30, 2005 19:26:38 GMT -6
Tman if there is a need for a skunk trap, how many skunk trappers out there? Please respond. I can think of a few ways to traps skunks, conibears, cage traps work excellent, I'm thinking a #1 coilspring with a jaw guard would work excellent, for the small front footed skunk. Time will tell on the skunk BMP if and when done.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 30, 2005 20:22:48 GMT -6
you mean a stoploss type trap? In dirt?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 30, 2005 20:44:10 GMT -6
No like Ryan Ruhl makes as a coon guard for 1.5 coils, just smaller it limits the access under the jaw, like 9ga wire welded as a mouth blocker, you can put them on like a secondary jaw jusr alot smaller profile and where it will work best on each different type of trap.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 31, 2005 7:18:43 GMT -6
a coon guard? sounds like a version of a double jaw to me. but whatever.
Im just curious- have you ever tried any of these double jaws, etc with small traps in dirt?
I have. Growing up- the first "furbearer" I trapped was skunks for the $2 bounty. Both striped and spotted (civets) had a lot of old dobule jaws from rat trapping.... a very poor choice.
Maybe a #5 double jaw- so it works like a body grip?
sounds like you aren't concerned at all about a skunks welfare...
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Post by trapperjoemo on Mar 31, 2005 8:12:40 GMT -6
It seems that the more "guards" that are around that foot, the more tooth damage would occur.? I thought broken teeth were un-acceptable to the BMP process??
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Post by trappnman on Mar 31, 2005 8:33:11 GMT -6
good point! it is my understanding that cuts on the lips, mouth, broken or chipped teeth do indeed score negative on the scale.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 31, 2005 16:09:47 GMT -6
First off amputation of digits counts far worse than chipped teeth, or cut lips on the BMP, the differance between pass and fail. Next a coon guard, or skunk guard is 9ga wire welded on below the jaw and can be moved back and forth as well as up or down the jaw, depending on size of coons and you could get them in a good area for skunks to limit most access to there feet! I am thinking using 1.5 reg jaw with 9ga coon guard in the right position for nothern coons, and couple that with 1.75 springs, would make a good land trap for fox,coon,skunks and opposum. I feel so strong about it, that if all works out I have a good friend who traps quite a few dry land coon, and having him test my idea this comming fall, with plenty of pictures for proof and his data on capture rates and holds. If I had more coons around I would do it myself, just so you can see there is more that will work effectivly than the 1.5 reg jaw that didn't pass. Imagine a coon trap that could be set anywhere in any circumstance hold coons well and limit chewing to a minimum! What a novel idea.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 31, 2005 18:05:18 GMT -6
heres even more of a novel idea- techniques that reduce, eliminate chewing..
make sure you let me know about the possum results on those 1.75 powered traps...
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Post by trappnman on Mar 31, 2005 18:10:15 GMT -6
First off amputation of digits counts far worse than chipped teeth, or cut lips on the BMP, the differance between pass and fail.
barely true- a diget is worth MORE- but its kind of irrelevant...
a chipped, broken tooth- 30 points, a cut lip 30 points.
add that up.
What score do you get?
more or less than 55?
add in lacerations and other "minor" injuries...and the results are quite clear.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Apr 1, 2005 6:11:59 GMT -6
What is barely true? I'll let you know how it all turns out. Let's see use equipment with alot more flexability that could be used inywhere in the US with the same results or use special techniques that won't work in all situations across the US? Better yet have specific technique worded into the BMP"s with * by that trap for use? I'll take the flexable equipment Bob for 200.00
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Post by trappnman on Apr 1, 2005 6:41:43 GMT -6
your statement:
First off amputation of digits counts far worse than chipped teeth, or cut lips on the BMP, the differance between pass and fail.
my answer:
barely true- a diget is worth MORE- but its kind of irrelevant...
a chipped, broken tooth- 30 points, a cut lip 30 points. add that up.
Barely true meaning your words "far worse"
a tooth and a cut lip- two items pretty much mutually inclusive- add up to over 55 points- so that score would be a failed score.
a coon could chew absolutely zero- and still fail- as many of the sample coon no doubt did.
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Post by trappnman on Apr 1, 2005 6:45:43 GMT -6
Really?
So you stand firmly behind the Eastern bmps for your state and all western states?
after all- no sense having different bmps for different areas of the country... thats crazy talk!
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Post by Hamilton on Apr 1, 2005 12:12:30 GMT -6
Unfortunately, we have very little data so far on skunks, due to some circumstances .... of course, smell is one of the nasty little details of doing this type of research.
We took some preventative measures, but in the end... we lost some samples and have very little data.
The skunks were bagged, double bagged, and even placed in pickle buckets, sealed and shipped and stored separately in a freezer-trailer, and the power went out over the Christmas holiday .... what a mess....Lots of puking going on during that cleanup!
Skunk BMP is a ways off ... so those that are waiting with baited breath .... relax. It'll be awhile.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Apr 1, 2005 14:46:28 GMT -6
tman nice attempt to find something that isn't there! If you notice one reason for east/west coyote bmp's are jaw resrtictions in the eastern US. Thats why the traps listed are all 5 1/2" or less! Western states don't have t such restrictions for the most part! The coon referance was that most states East or West have little restriction on the 1.5 for coon. So that means your techniques would be specific to certain terrain features, where as a 1.5 with a coon guard could be set anywhere and have the same results no matter terrian.
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Post by Hamilton on Apr 1, 2005 15:07:08 GMT -6
Trappnman said "a chipped, broken tooth- 30 points, a cut lip 30 points. add that up."
Correction ... laceration on lip... 5 points if less than 2 cm long... 10 points otherwise.
Minor cuts to tongue and foot pads (<2 cm) are only 5 points.
Major lacerations (cuts > 2 cm) to the tongue and foot pads are more- relates to perceived pain (30 points)
I don't think we have ever seen a major tongue cut in the 8,000 or so animal necropsies.
Broken teeth are another matter .... they do impact some of the trap types .... but even though the double jaws seem to give more metal for the coons and opossums to chew on, they haven't caused the traps to fail.
Cage traps cause otters to break teeth, and therefore it is more humane to catch and hold otters alive in foothold traps than in some of the cage traps that were tested so far.
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Post by trappnman on Apr 1, 2005 16:04:03 GMT -6
Dave- am just taking the data as presented- but if I misinterpreted it, I'll take oyur work..
i could argue every point- but I'll give you ya know the numbers....
but while you are care to comment on the small smaple sizes or was this a patial reporting of the data. I see many samples under 50.
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Post by MChewk on Nov 28, 2005 5:21:33 GMT -6
I understand this data is to be released... soon? Anyone else hear that....
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Post by trappnman on Nov 28, 2005 7:21:39 GMT -6
I would absolutely LOVE to see skunk bmps released.
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Post by robertw on Nov 28, 2005 9:10:27 GMT -6
One thing about skunks that many people do not realise is that skunks VARY TREMENDOUSLY IN SIZE (more so than racoons) across the United States.
It is amazing how big western skunks get along the continental devide compared to our midwestern skunks, then compare them to the minature version of skunks found in the south (average weight has to be under 4 pounds) and you have some serious contrast to deal with.
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