Hot info off the press on coon BMP!

[Edge]

**I volunteered for the BMP because I have read some of the lab test done by the USDA and knew I could do a fairer job on a real trapline than some geek in a labcoat.**

Very good post.Affecting change by way of personal involvement;lots of people say it,few people do it;nice job.

I wish I could offer more on the BMP's...but when I dont know nothin,I try to stay shut up about proving it.

So far,I still have all my original teeth.........LOL!

Edge

[trappnman]

It sounds like they beat their head against the wall trying everything exccept things that actually work.

Why in the world would anyone think no entanglement would cut down on chewing? Thats absurd.

PS- Im a real coon trapper and never set bridges.

[Toptrapper1]

I felt the same way when they told us how to set the traps but I beleive and i could be wrong that those guidelines were set up by the NTA guy from Maryland. I seriously wanted to ask him if he had done any coon trapping but when I called he did not even return my calls. I was just pointing out that I as a trapper did all the things THEY said would make the trap pass. I have always argue the idea that we were testing the trapper not the trap. I did as THEY told me to knowing the trap would fail if done their way.
Just as a matter of opinion do you beleive a Mont. 1.5 could pass if set without entanglement. I have not had hardly any chewing out of these little powerhouses in the 18 years I have been using them. I am still wondering why those guys who made the Montana screwed around making a sq. jaw dogless when I feel a 1.5 or #2 RJ based on a MONT design would have sold better. Lets face it the round jaw Monts sell like wildfire when ever they are up for sale.

I was not saying trappers who do not set bridges are doing anything wrong but i feel that alot of the big number guys set bridges. You really cannot pick up a book on coon trapping where they do not harp on briges and road setting is the key to big numbers. In Ohio yopu have to get permission to set culverts and bridges even though in my area you will have scumbag trappers try to argue the point.

By the way thanks for not rippimg on me for being one of the test trappers.

[trappnman]

a 1.5 Montana round jaw is coming out in the near future.

Thank you for your post- nice hearing from a coon trapper who worked on the coon BMPS.

[trappincoyotes39]

I did an inquiry concerning the testing of #1 1/2 Duke traps while meeting with BMP biologists this week. I was informed the Duke was only tested as a modified trap. It was not understood to be mechanically different than other similar sized # 1 1/2 coilspring traps since its mechanical characteristics and design is extremely similar to the other available models. The Duke was looked at but not tested because it was a rougher trap and did not appear to be as consistent due to manufacturers quality control measures. The problem with this size and configuration of trap is the space beneath the trap jaws that allows for self mutilation from raccoons, so there is no reason to expect improved performance with other brands of traps that are mechanically similar and designed the same way. It is my understanding that any # 1 1/2 coilspring trap that is modified with the addition of double jaws is recommended as the BMPs do not mention brand names but recommended traps are instead described according to mechanical characteristics. Of course there is always room for different opinions and views. What I can tell you is the NTA delegation made some great strides at this meeting and these strides would not have happened without NTA experts being involved in many aspects of BMP developments.I do think the public has a greater appreciation of results of scientific testing than rhetoric from parties with vested interests. If a minority group of trappers do not trust their representatives, that is a burden of being accountable. I can also tell you a recent survey shows great support for BMPs amongst trappers from all regions of the country, and I am attempting to get a release to print that information in the American Trapper. I trust this answers your questions, and you may circulate these comments or quote me in context if you wish. Tom Krause
This is what Tom emailed me and told me it was fine to quote him on this, this news is days old at best.

[trappincoyotes39]

the 1.5 montgomery, when redone to those spects, if you notice as I'm sure your aware of has a smaller width jaw, more arch, or taller jaw, but makes it tougher for a coon to chew at those toes, than the wider,less arching 1.5's made today. I also have some old monty's 1.5 rj and used them for fox and coon and even held some coyotes in them, it's all in the trap design that makes the differance, I appricate top trappers comments and insite on this subject.
I hope they do get made and pass with flying colors, but the question will be Tman will you still be mad becuase there not dukes or victors?

[CoonDuke]

TC35,
Did they tell you if the Duke 1.5 double jaw laminated that passed was the stock DJ or an add-on DJ?

[trappnman]

Have you or Tom ever used Dukes on coon?

I'd say not.

Yet you both know all about dryland coon trapping with footholds?

BOGUS!


So part of the bmps- were done on previsuals? Just by looking at a trap- Tom knew it would fail?

Wow.

Now THATS good Science! Baa-ha-ha!

These coon bmps are falling apart the more you defend them. Bogus testing, bogus results. As Toptrapper said- as an actual tester-

THE TRAPS AS SET WERE MEANT TO FAIL.

The offical statemnt from the Vets Council (or whatever) is that trapping is inhumane and they officially are opposed to it.

THESE are the vets working on the project.

Wouldn't want to taint the results don't ya know...





Heres a deal to email Tom- I won't tell him how to edit the NTA magazine- he won't tell me how to trap coon.


READ what an actual coon bmp trapper posted.

[CoonDuke]

Here are some numbers.

Jawspread and the distance between the levers (which goes hand in hand with the spring pin width) play a major role in how much space is under the jaws.

Outside jaw spread:
Duke 1.5 - 4 9/16"
Sleepy Creek 1.5 - 4 14/16"

There is over 1/4" difference in jawspread

Spring pin width
Duke 1.5 - 2 2/8"
Sleepy Creek 1.5 - 2 5/8"

There is 3/8" difference in spring pin width

[trappincoyotes39]

First off tman, Tom was not on the coon ad hoc commity, he found out at this meeting from those directly involved with this BMP! He Talked to and received the information from those involved with the coon BMP!
Coon Duke I can find out, but the way it sounds, any 1.5 that has an added DJ in similar design to those that passed and yes Tman they did pass! Will suffice for a BMP coon trap that will be a passing trap! SO any model of 1.5 DJ or if you want to add a DJ through welding as long as it is like those tested would be known as a passing coon BMP trap!
No tman I"m not a duke fan, so NO I haven't ever used them on coon, again if you want them to pass contact the AD Hoc commity for coon BMP and tell them you will test them again!
There is some differance coon duke, how do they measure up with a victor 1.5? Just wanting to know the differances there. I think modified means the addition of the DJ, I can find out though for sure.
Tman the Vet council or what ever is just a part of the whole process! I will wait to judge the great strides made by the NTA, before I cast blame or doubt. I'm done with this deal continue on and let all trappers know your feelings with the BMP's and I'll do the same, and be part of the process, because it is here to stay reguardless of our disagreement on the issue.
Also one last point, at this time snaring is not recommened for coons, yes thats right, but does it worry me? NO becuase you can't recommend something that hasn't been tested yet. Further more, because there is no recommendation, does not mean any state has ot will make it illegal to snare coons! If you think the coon bmp is messed up, wait till the snaring BMP does fall into place, but I'll do all I can, to see snaring stays a viable option to those that have it in there states, which is many . Good day

[trappnman]

Then stop quoting Tom if he has no involvement.

dj- wouldn't use one. No more validity to me than snaring on the moon or...WI.

Coon bmps won't affect me at all- i'll trap mink and fox 100% Like I was told to do WHEN the 1.5s failed. Those darn coon incidentals!

You sure squirm around the main points of a discussion.

DID YOU READ WHAT TOPTRAPPER SAID?

HAVE YOU HEARD what coon trappers are saying about entangelement?

I repeat- any coon bmp AVOIDING tangelement and NOT TESTING perhaps the #1 coon trap out there (thanx and a tip of the hat for the "visual" no pass)...

is....

BOGUS

and will get no support from me- exactly how the snaring bmps get NO support from you.

you sure seem to want your cake and to eat it too.....

[CoonDuke]

I just measured a Woodstream Victor 1.5.

While the spring pin width is the same as the Duke, the jawspread is 4 15/16". A 3/8" difference over the Duke.