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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Mar 27, 2008 23:32:17 GMT -6
I don't think that's it, I caught 3 to1 tomcats so there was plenty to do the breeding.
Joel
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Post by lynxcat on Mar 28, 2008 5:37:39 GMT -6
hmmmmmmm
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 28, 2008 6:05:39 GMT -6
could be just as simple as plain over trapping. the one subject no one wants to touch for fear of losing any portion of the opportunity to catch more of the only animal we have today that can be serioisly taken at a profit commensurate with the investment in labor and input costs. in fact that is exactly it imo. sometimes we so desperatly look for any other reason to be able to not see the real reason. not anyone I know can go in a hammer cats, be it 100 or 80 or 60 or whatever out of a finite area and go back and do it again the next year. let alone a small army of trappers and 90% of the land blm so no refuges left untrapped. I know everyone says well they are safe and refuge back 20 miles off the road, #1 with $600 cats, more guys are getting back there than you think, and #2 that`s not the places that are in concern and reflective of the lack of cats . admit it, every hired hand, cowboy, red neck, state hopper and pro and the lady that runs the grocery store now know what cats are worth. if driving and they see one, he gets run over! anyone wantto place any bets if the idaho hotshot kid can go back tohe same area and catch even 1/2 next year? he thinks he is an expert on cats. trouble is, only on catching, and any fool knows a cat is the dumber than a muskrat. so dumb you can catch them down to the nubbins if you`ve not the brains to quit before the last one is gone. he`ll learn, we all do , have , or will.
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Post by romans117 on Mar 28, 2008 8:11:31 GMT -6
We had more ground cover than normal. Prey species was and is up. Yotes have been hammered three years running in my areas. I saw alot of movement last year and wonder if the increase in prey species resulted in less movement of the females and kittens. I don't think more trappers have moved in or around. I purposely did not trap as long or as deep this year in most areas due to sage advice regarding preserving the breeding females.
Out of twelve cats taken this year two were breeding females and one kitten female. Breeding females meaning they had a first year kitten. Both females had toms for kittens. Last year was considerably different in the total numbers but he ratio was similar between females and males.
This fall will tell the tale. I am going to guess the numbers will be between this year and last's in the area I have trapped. I will be adding new ground.
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 28, 2008 8:32:16 GMT -6
romans, I now one new guy working your area that did 15 or so and had almost none the year before. wasn`t me. and he did most of it before you or I ever started even. with any luck he`ll get $50 a cat and lose his steam. I know he stayed on some locations for months, one spot I was told he got the old mom and all the kittens, like that was something to be proud of.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Mar 28, 2008 9:49:56 GMT -6
Bob I don't think overtrapping is the problem here. I'm not hearing anybody saying there are no cats just that the females didn't breed and not many kittens caught.
It's not this years population that I'm wondering about it's more like two years from now.
Good news is I'm seeing some more rabbit browsing around my place, have to watch for young rabbits.
Joel
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 28, 2008 10:02:49 GMT -6
I`m thinking without some dramatic turn around or some factor I`m clueless on that my area that is generally good for 35-45 cats will be lucky to do 15-20 next year. I can leave what I leave, but it`s wasted efforts if this other new guy in my area camps on them till the last one is caught. and that is what he did this year. only reason any got left by him is he couldn`t catch them. I think that is the norm with most trappers. their definition of seed is the season ran out. when a guy camps on the same ground from november 15th to feb 15th, well, you know, cats aren`t too smart. 3 months and even lucky cats get unlucky eventually.
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Post by 17Wonk on Mar 28, 2008 18:04:43 GMT -6
Eastern OR ,dry females, no kittens,no chukars ,no cottontails, very few jacks, lots of snow! Caught several old gummer toms...............only ones left?
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Post by motrapperjohn on Mar 28, 2008 21:09:48 GMT -6
I am not to far from Robert and did harvest a few milk stained cats and kittens and turned a few loose only one dry female. Did notice a lot of pressure, ran into 3 trapppers in 2 days. they took between them almost 100 cats between Thanksgiving and Christmass. I had already taken quite a few out of the same area before they got going so that area got hit pretty hard.
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Post by trapliner on Mar 29, 2008 15:26:44 GMT -6
I trap in western Oklahoma, plenty of kittens this year, matter of fact one 360 acre tract of land that I trap produced four kittens and one tom, and two females.
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 29, 2008 15:38:45 GMT -6
there likely won`t be any there next year. they aren`t like coyotes and rush to fill back in dead zones. there is an end to them
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Post by humptulips on Mar 29, 2008 16:55:01 GMT -6
Bob, I think you are dead on over trapping cats. It seems to me it is easy to do. My experience on the coast here may not bear out east of here a ways but I feel I can pretty well trap an area out in 2 weeks. If I do that a couple years in a row there won't be enough cats to bother with for a long time. I almost feel I have to find new ground every year. Several years ago I trapped an area that was about a 20 mile circle for two weeks.Caught 22 cats that first year. Second year 7 in two weeks. Let it rest for two years and nothing in 6 days. Pulled on the last day it was perfect tracking snow so looked at every track on the line. 2 small cat tracks the whole day counting side spurs and everything. Admiitedly the small game is scarce so maybe they come back slower then other areas but I really screwed that line up for maybe a long time.
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Post by trapliner on Mar 30, 2008 15:52:35 GMT -6
I have been trapping that 360 acres for four years now, every year I take about the same amount of cats off it, so far they have been replenishing the land year after year, I did catch and release one crappy looking tom on that place this year. This land is right on the river and has good cat land on all sides of it that nobody traps, so I'm not too worried about over trapping it. I take several beaver, coons, coyotes, and a deer or two off it every year also.
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 30, 2008 16:14:21 GMT -6
it goes like that and finally the teeter totter tips. I`d be real surprised if it continues. when you are the only guy, and no one else trapping in any direction but you, that kind of thing flys for awhile. but usually when prices are up like they are now, others folks start next to you, or you just do such a good job it finally runs out. that bad tom, if he was bad color, I`d advise kill him to get him out of the gene pool. kind of like raising dwarfs for a basketball team.
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Post by trapliner on Mar 30, 2008 17:17:20 GMT -6
Yea about that tom, I kicked myself after I realized what I done. The thing about over trapping the land is that I have two of them leased about five miles apart, both on the river, the farmers that own the other land have given me permission to trap, and hunt, they wont let anyone else in there, the land is relly only accessable from the two places that I trap. But bob you have been trapping alot longer than me and are probally right, although I sure hope not. I got two other people that I know to trap in the last couple of years other than that theres just no one in our area that traps.
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 30, 2008 17:30:46 GMT -6
that 5 mile set aside may save your bacon. time will tell. those old females are the ones to turn loose if you think no one else will get hem. you can bleed off all the kittens and toms you want if you let those sows go. generally they are cheap anyway. I thought my area was safe from other trapers, and was till this year. now I don`t know if there is such a place left, well outside of the unique situation you have there.
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