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Top Lot
Aug 29, 2006 9:00:42 GMT -6
Post by sawdust on Aug 29, 2006 9:00:42 GMT -6
shag,
how can a top lot award not put more money in a trapper's pocket?
top lots are awarded to the best handled pelts.
if a trapper strives for every pelt to potentially achieve a top lot award by making every pelt look as nice as possible, the average of all the furs can't help but go up.
sure, NAFA benefits from giving these certificates or a hat. they're in business to make money - what's wrong with that? NAFA promotea better fur handling which makes their buyers happier and the buyers in turn pay more for higher quality pelts which makes trappers happier.
seems simple to me.
frenchman said it all up in the first response - the awards are given to promote better fur handling.
to sum it all up, your first post (second overall response) about trading the awards for cash is exactly what occurs.
ts
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Top Lot
Aug 29, 2006 9:07:26 GMT -6
Post by thebeav2 on Aug 29, 2006 9:07:26 GMT -6
It's never the gamblers fault It's always the house Is crooked or the dealer Is crooked there Is always some excuse when you don't get what you feel you deserve.
It all boils down to the Individual and his or her fur. No one Is holding a gun to your head. It's all a gamble and you have no one to blame but yourself.
With out the fur auction houses you would be at the mercy of your local buyer, there needs to be competition. In fact most If not all country buyers turn there fur over to the auction house.
It's the same with Grunewald around here. He Is In most cases the only buyer around and he can set his prices to suit him and your going to sell at those prices or go home. I'm not saying his prices aren't fair I'm just saying It's his price or the highway. When we had 10 buyers to pick and chose from good old Gurney had to dig a little deeper to get your fur.
The bottom line Is you make the decision and what ever happens you live with It.
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Top Lot
Aug 29, 2006 10:24:50 GMT -6
Post by shagnasty on Aug 29, 2006 10:24:50 GMT -6
not sure how we got from me saying top lot awards being considered sales promotion to beav questioning where a guy sells his fur and who is to blame if he gets less than desired? i will repeat, my opinion of top lot awards has nothing to do with the otter market crashing. life goes on. i have thought these top lot things a joke for quite a few years. would you believe they send me top lot awards occassionally for these rag job coon down here. puuuuleeeezeee. id say nafa is doing a great job, man that pie in the sky looks good!
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Top Lot
Aug 29, 2006 13:14:06 GMT -6
Post by sawdust on Aug 29, 2006 13:14:06 GMT -6
i don't see how the award can be considered a joke.
it leads only to folks attempting to handle each piece of fur a little better which can only lead to higher return/more dollars.
as for the rag coons from the eastern US, i'm going to take a wild guess and say that the top lot was for an appropriate grade/region of coon.
i doubt the rag coons were grouped with the northcentrals.
if a person has a problem with nafa or any other buyer, don't send them any more business.
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Top Lot
Aug 29, 2006 16:00:08 GMT -6
Post by ColdSteel on Aug 29, 2006 16:00:08 GMT -6
People have there own opinion about top lot.If I rained on a young or old trappers award then I am sorry.Heck the first few I got I laminated just for my grandkids to see when I am gone away from here.Heck I have won probably close to 50 bass tournaments and they give trophies in most of them.The first few I got meant something after that I had rather have the cash.Beav was dead on about auction houses we need them and they are good to the trapper.In my opinion,they keep SOME of the country buyers honest.I also learned another valuable lesson this year that I should have learned along time ago.NEVER SPEND YOUR FUR CHECK UNTIL IT IS IN YOUR HANDS
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Top Lot
Aug 29, 2006 16:18:43 GMT -6
Post by lumberjack on Aug 29, 2006 16:18:43 GMT -6
Beav, you say its always the house and not the gamblers fault we say, but what about that bidders collusion or whatever the heck it was called was a couple years ago that we never hear about anymore? Kinda hard to keep competitive when the buyers where rigging the auctions. I guaran freakin tee you one thing, for every top lot I got, I got 1,000 bottom lots. And yes, I know how to put up fur so holster your weapons.
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Top Lot
Aug 29, 2006 16:38:10 GMT -6
Post by thebeav2 on Aug 29, 2006 16:38:10 GMT -6
If you don't understand where I'm going then there Is no sense In disscussing this any farther.
Gary
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Top Lot
Aug 29, 2006 17:17:38 GMT -6
Post by bobwendt on Aug 29, 2006 17:17:38 GMT -6
nobody sets a price on my fur or game anymore. letting ANYONE dictate to you what they will pay is a dead end street, be it country buyer or auction. I trap my live animals, taxidermy specimens , or finished hides, peruse the markets and various outlets and then I contact various buyers and say here is what I have, here is what I want. I may negotiate some, but not much. I know what I want, I get it or move on to the next option. If no one will pay what I want, then I sell to the next highest man and don`t trap anymore. serious as a heart attack. why I won`t intentionally trap most animals for fur anymore- the cost of production exceeds the value on an open market. I can trap as many or more animals /mile/gallon/hour as anyone alive, so if I can`t justify it, there is no option number two. I just quit doing it and go to better paying stuff. still trapping , but not furs at below cost to produce. this is NOT a hobby to me. if it is a hobby to anyone else, knock yourselves out and get whatever you can. I won`t lower my level of living to say I trap. just how it is. I`m not starving anymore and I don`t do anything I don`t want to do to put on airs.
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Top Lot
Aug 29, 2006 17:23:32 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Aug 29, 2006 17:23:32 GMT -6
maybe, if you want to fur trap, you should move to a state where we can indeed, make money on fur.
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Top Lot
Aug 29, 2006 17:31:01 GMT -6
Post by lumberjack on Aug 29, 2006 17:31:01 GMT -6
All Im saying is dont get too "beside yourself" with a high price from auction. I did with my $56.00 Pa beaver (not a top lot but a top price for me) and was quickly dealt a reality blow with 3 that sold for $4.00. I look at my lower prices paid more than I do the higher prices. I think country buyers would pay more but with all the different grades, sizes,and colors from a-z at auctions, and prices on each specie from $1.00 to $300.00, its a crapshoot for the country buyer to figure out what to pay (the top lot or top price at auction really messes with the true, in the middle averages) . I think they just lowball most of the time and most around here are out of business or hanging on by a thread. I have no meat market, no running pens, no exotic furs, hardly any muskrats, and country buyers buying on a string and a prayer. Basically all I have are the auctions and I havent been real happy with them lately. I will just trap till I cant afford to then its back to business as usual.
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Top Lot
Aug 31, 2006 23:02:59 GMT -6
Post by thorsmightyhammer on Aug 31, 2006 23:02:59 GMT -6
(the top lot or top price at auction really messes with the true, in the middle averages) .
The top lot has absolutely no meaning on the overall sale average. Less than 1% of fur will be top lot not hardly enough to raise averages a few cents.
Personally I am indifferent to the awards. I usually get at least one every year and this year I got 7. But some guys like them so good for them.
I agree with you bob that we need to start finding a way to at least take a little more control over our product.
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Top Lot
Sept 1, 2006 15:49:21 GMT -6
Post by BadDog on Sept 1, 2006 15:49:21 GMT -6
Great thread guys. I do have a major gripe for this thread...
I had 3 coyotes in the top lot in the Feb Sale, (got $340 per coyote x3) AND THEY ONLY SENT ME ONE TOP LOT CERTIFICATE FOR ALL THREE COYOTES.
Now is that fair?
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Top Lot
Sept 2, 2006 7:43:32 GMT -6
Post by thorsmightyhammer on Sept 2, 2006 7:43:32 GMT -6
Now is that fair?
Not quite as unfair as the change in the exchange rate.
Couple years ago that 340 us would have translated to what? $400 CDN. Now its maybe 350 360 CDN. OUCH!!!
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Top Lot
Sept 4, 2006 20:55:30 GMT -6
Post by robertw on Sept 4, 2006 20:55:30 GMT -6
Top Lots are important for a variety of reasons...
1) The number of pelts that I have in a "Top Lot" tells me whether I am finishing / furnishing a product to a standard that the the industry wants.
2) Top Lot awards furnishes the trapper with an idea of what the very best of a certain grade / size/ color of animals are worth.
3) Top Lot awards ARE something to be proud of! I normally receive 6-10 top lot awards every year. I don't frame them all (in fact only three) but I do think that $320 otters, $950 bobcats and $200 beaver all deserve to be framed and remembered.
Beav made an excellent point earlier in this thread....Anybody ever see a young 12-14 year old trapper walk up to the NAFA table at one of the national conventions to pick up his hat or T shirt for winning a "Top Lot"? Witnessing something like this makes the WHOLE process a worth while project.
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Top Lot
Sept 4, 2006 21:02:42 GMT -6
Post by psb1011 on Sept 4, 2006 21:02:42 GMT -6
Robertw,
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Top Lot
Sept 4, 2006 21:32:01 GMT -6
Post by mr. finch on Sept 4, 2006 21:32:01 GMT -6
robert, got any tips you care to share to finish a cat to be worth 950 bucks?thats some serious stuff there
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Top Lot
Sept 4, 2006 22:04:57 GMT -6
Post by robertw on Sept 4, 2006 22:04:57 GMT -6
warcraft 1975;"robert, got any tips you care to share to finish a cat to be worth 950 bucks?thats some serious stuff there"
Sorry dude, didn't mean to mislead you. I used that figure as an example, I have not had a cat Top Lot at that amount.
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Top Lot
Sept 4, 2006 22:18:02 GMT -6
Post by mr. finch on Sept 4, 2006 22:18:02 GMT -6
oh ok robert, i was thinking man that was one nice cat!!!!lol
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Top Lot
Sept 5, 2006 0:58:12 GMT -6
Post by rk660 on Sept 5, 2006 0:58:12 GMT -6
I dont think the top lot awards are so much of a fur handling award, just having pelts in the "top lot" for given species, which is broken down into whatever sub catagories. Say NW coon eastern coon, coat coon, etc. When I used to finish all my coon and send to NAFA, if I remember right I had 8 or 9 top lots one year. I never scrap above the ears, dont pay much attention to eyelids on coon. I just do a consitant put up, get all the grease off them, I dont even close pin the legholes shut unless they come close to edge of stretcher. I used to think they where neat, but the novelty wore off I guess. i can see it still being a neat deal for a young trapper to be proud of though. Those inflated top lots on very best beaver, like the $800 ones a few years back are more of a promotional deal for the fur dresser/garment maker who buys them. They make a coat out of "top lot" fur and parade on the raceway or some high profile excibit of sorts, and get a lot of free advertizing out of it. Anything that puts a little more money in a trappers pocket aint all bad!
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Top Lot
Sept 5, 2006 9:18:48 GMT -6
Post by shagnasty on Sept 5, 2006 9:18:48 GMT -6
i see it similar to the way rk just described, yeah its cool for the kids or for those older folk who marvel in their put up fur. just making a point, that i believe nafa does it for promotional reasons for their business moreso than a slap on the back to the trappers. my opinion. personally, i could care less about one, making plans this year so that i have to do basically zero skinning and fleshing. would rather set more traps and catch more fur. so, likely no top lots for shaggy
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