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Post by trappincoyotes39 on May 18, 2005 14:49:52 GMT -6
If you received your American trapper the details are there for the wolf seminar, cost is 200.00 and will be after the Western NTA Sunday and Monday, it will put you in a trappers pool to conduct wolf trapping for the USFWS. There sure going to be dispersing over the next 10-15 years and I think alot more states will have wolves in there areas buy then. If that judge from Oregon keeps it up, the wolf will have more protection than a human life!!!!! Went from endangered then after the restocking and wolf numbers went up, they got moved down to threatend and now with the big$$$ backing of animal rights they are now back to endangered animals what a joke!!!!
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Post by 3n on May 18, 2005 18:08:40 GMT -6
tc35..did it say who the instructors would be...thanks
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Post by thebeav2 on May 18, 2005 18:48:44 GMT -6
Peter Shepherd
Jim Masek
Pete Buist
Might be fun I was thinking of going . I bet when push come to shove Wildlife Services will put thier own people In the field.
Beav
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Snareman
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Post by Snareman on May 18, 2005 19:24:07 GMT -6
If I were fixin' to go, I could bring a legion of ol' hick farmer boys who can teach a thing or two about catching timber wolves... SSS Farmer style. LOL! They're so thick in some places here, you can't go a few hundred yards without cutting their tracks.
I wish we could have a lottery system here to catch a few as they do need to be thinned in some places and tax payers could save money in the process instead of paying some department to do what so many will do for free.... or better yet... pay for it.
Snareman
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Post by robertw on May 19, 2005 21:08:16 GMT -6
"it will put you in a trappers pool to conduct wolf trapping for the USFWS."
I doubt that USFWS is going to be hiring trappers out of this "pool". I agree with Beav.
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Post by Jarhead620 on May 20, 2005 7:31:38 GMT -6
This seminar is really just a political statement by the NTA. Beav and Robert are right, the FWS and Wildlife Services are going to stick with government trappers like they always have.
Someone tell me if I'm wrong, but I doubt that the NTA has cordinated the development of this "pool" with the FWS. Without some prior commitment on the part of FWS and Wildlife Services these seminars are just interesting exercises with no pay-off. This could change if wolf populations are delisted from the ESA and their management is totally under the authority of respective State wildlife agencies. However, there are many obstacles to be overcome before this becomes a reality.
Wolves are just big canids requiring heavy duty equipment. Other than that, how is trapping them that much different from trapping foxes and coyotes?
Larry
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Post by Dusty on May 20, 2005 10:40:53 GMT -6
Wolves are just big canids requiring heavy duty equipment. Other than that, how is trapping them that much different from trapping foxes and coyotes?T
hehehe - are you serious?
Wolves aren't big coyotes, and they sure aren't big foxes. If nothing else, they cover a lot of country. They're social, and they learn from other's mistakes.
$200 for a day with Pete, Pete, and Jim is a pretty skookum deal! (Just ignore the part where Masek tells you that you really need at least 100 #9s to go with your big pile of 114s!)
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Post by Jarhead620 on May 20, 2005 11:27:23 GMT -6
Wolves aren't big coyotes, and they sure aren't big foxes. If nothing else, they cover a lot of country. They're social, and they learn from other's mistakes.
OK, but that doesn't really answer my question Dusty. I know you set a lot of snares and big legholds in trails leading to fresh kills, set up post sets in runways, etc., but what is it that is unique to wolf trapping? Or do I have to put up $200 to find out, LOL.
Anyway, my main point is that the seminar will be interesting and informative, but is not likely to be of any practical value to lower 48 trappers.
Larry
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Post by robertw on May 20, 2005 11:37:21 GMT -6
BTW, What is the current state of repor between the NTA and FWS? I thought they were barely tolerating each other, did this changed with change in administrations?
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Post by Dusty on May 20, 2005 11:38:39 GMT -6
OK, so I can agree with that sentiment.
At some level, I suppose a canid is a canid. Go play like they're big coyotes and you'd probably catch a few.
Being social is unique. You can use that, and they'll definitely use it against you.
I still say $200 is a steal.
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Post by FWS on May 20, 2005 11:41:27 GMT -6
It strikes me that methodology from AK won't neccesarily apply to trapping wolves in the Intermountain West or Upper Midwest.
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Post by musher on May 21, 2005 7:32:34 GMT -6
I find $200 U.S. rather expensive. I'm certain I would learn lots but I guess I'm cheap! Where's the money going to?
Anyone with good coyote knowledge, proper equipment, and patience should connect in that first year. They'd have to do their scouting properly and they'd really have to hope that the pack stays where other trappers won't educate them before you do. This could be the real problem.
However, year two could be a whole different story. Once they realize they aren't at the top of the food chain their behaviour should change radically.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on May 21, 2005 15:59:11 GMT -6
There is going to be a heck of a lot more to this than a demonstration on how to set a trap.
I've had a number of discussions with Pete Shepherd about this seminar.
He is putting a lot of work into an intensive history of wolf trapping.
Politics, behavior, and of course techniques.
It is going to be a day and a half long, obviously it is more in depth than your run of the mill dirt hole set demo.
If you want more details contact Marvin Miller Colorado TA at critr4gitr@outdrs.net or Pete Shepherd at midhightson@mightymoose.us
Pete Buist is in Africa hunting right now so you won't reach him.
Joel
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on May 21, 2005 16:02:14 GMT -6
BTW
It's only $150 if you are a member of NTA and state assoc.
Joel
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Post by FWS on May 21, 2005 16:39:51 GMT -6
Joel, I really question whether the NTA or any trapping oriented group can provide a political fix to the issue of wolf management in the lower 48.
And I can see the wolf being used as a political surrogate in those states affected to advance ballot measures and legislation.
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Post by trapperdog on May 21, 2005 16:50:32 GMT -6
I wasn't planning on going to the rendezvous this year,but I may have to rethink that! What a great opportunity to learn about wolf trapping plus a whole lot more.
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Snareman
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Post by Snareman on May 21, 2005 17:29:12 GMT -6
I suspect if some trapper went out on the line, and provided he had the right equipment for the job, he would fair well wolf trapping... especially around here. LOL!
I'm just to the west of some of MN's heaviest timberwolf densities and tell you what, guys are P.O'd because they can't keep the wolves out of their sets. Many guys are using smaller footholds to keep from holding the timberwolves when they encounter a set. Trapping wolves reminds me a lot of the stigma or myths I had as a child when fox or coyote trapping... being pulled in by the mystique of it all. Now that I know wolves just a bit more than my yester-years, the mystique I had towards wolves has severely dropped off as I hardly have any respect for them. Give me a peg leg beaver or a coyote somewhat acclimated to dirt sets and I feel I would be more challenged than by your average wolf. As far as wolves go, I just don't have the respect towards them as I use to. LOL! I know a guy could set on fresh sign and not get any activity for two weeks and think he's doing something wrong, when in actuality, the wolf hasn't come back yet.. and when he does, he's going to investigate the set. I do know that a timber about 90lbs can get caught and held in a red fox set using a 1 1/2 coil Northwoods. ;D So I've heard.
I think a formal training on timbers would be interesting, as I said, I don't have respect for them anymore and think trapping them would be fun. I would much prefer snares, but what the heck, I'd be willing to go for it.
Snareman
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on May 21, 2005 18:12:06 GMT -6
Snareman,
I feel the same about lions. Pain in the butt!!
FWS,
I don't know that the NTA is going to solve anything with this seminar or not.
It's just a seminar with some guys that have a lot of experience with wolves.
I don't know Masek personally but I've heard of his reputation.
Pete Shepherd and Pete Buist are friends of mine.
I have a ton of respect for the knowledge they bring to the table.
Pete Shepherd is an old timer 76 years old. Used to trap with dog teams.
On top of that he has a Masters degree from college and more importantly a post doctorate from the bush.
He was one of the old time biologists that did wolf control with traps, snares, and from the air. I can't remember if he was involved with poison or not.
He fits right in with any of the old masters. I kind of think of him as the Wiley Carroll of Alaska.
I've been on the line with him a couple of different winters and I've hunted moose and bear with him as well.
He gets around as well as I do and I'm only 50.
Fascinating to hear his experiences and knowledge.
Joel
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on May 21, 2005 18:19:21 GMT -6
Here's a pic of Pete setting a wolf trap in Alaska.
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Post by musher on May 21, 2005 19:22:29 GMT -6
I don't know a whole lot about coyotes but I do know that they can be tough to catch. I also know that people catch them in their backyards, once in a while, and that thousands are caught yearly. Some are caught in coni's, muskrat traps, and other "lucky" stuff.
Wolves I know a bit about. The catch, in my part of the world, is in the low hundreds. There are some lucky ones but not many easy ones.
I respect them both.
I've lost them in 2's to 4's. I've never held one in those type of traps. I've lost them in many fox snares. I did hold one in a fox snare once but he had just got caught and didn't have room to give a good jerk
I guess it all depends on what you mean by doing well. Like I said earlier, the first year there should be some easy ones. But if people start catching a dozen each the population should disappear very quickly and there will be less blundering wolves. That's when you'll see the difference between a wolfer and a lucky trapper.
It's not necesary to be God's gift to the trapping world to be a good wolf trapper but the animal did get its rep from somewhere. All those Northern boys can't be wrong!
I hope you guys get a crack at it because it is a hoot of fun.
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