coyotes in snow

[trappnman]

I'm not talking deep, sustained snow. That's a whole other story.

What I am talking about, is those snows you get that come and go, or where you get a few inches or so on the ground while yo uhave a line out. Or worse yet, having to set in those conditions.

Over the past few years snow off and on is the rule, not the exception.

Each year, I try to figure out the definitive thing to do, my go to after snows.

Non of this is set in stone, as it's a process in fluxm but I'm leaning to thinking like this:

First of all, if dry snow, there isn't a place inside of 4 walls, where its not going to drift. The only thing that wouldn't, would be an absolutely flat set, where trap is level to ground, no attraction that is above ground, and very small lure holes in absolutely flat location with no obstructions close by. Sadly- not a location too attractive to coyotes, esp with snow on the ground.

If I have to set with snow on the rgound, the ground is usually not froze under it, so I can clear and area and make a standard dirthole. 2 years ago, we had to set a few traps in fresh snow- so I said lets minimize our walking back and forth, cause the tracks will stick out like a sore thumb. But I forgot that, and she forgot that- and by the time we were done it looked like a circus had taken place there. My thought was imagine all the tracks when we WEREN'T being careful. So one "conclusion" re amplified is coyotes don't give a crap about tracks.

I always thought that in snow, the visual aspect of the tracks were bad- but when I think of all the times I see tracks over my tracks over the years, and knowing that the scent tracks are just as apparent to a coyote as footprints, that in most circumstances they, as the saying goes- know you aren't there now. I used to try to bruch out my tracks in snow- not worth the time imo at least not here.

The bigger problem for me, is when snow falls on a line. How should I maintain the sets- clear them? Leave them alone? Both?

One quickly learns that small warm weather guides don't have a lot of value under snow- so the set and a big guide (my loose jaw guard with peat) are what I use. The dirt hole, the somewhat dished pattern, and the big guide do standout in up to 2 or 3 inches of snow if drifting, and a bit more if not.

So I've come to this "conclusion":

Day One after the snow, I don't touch a thing. I just want to get what I have in traps, and get home safely on the roads.

Day Two- if the weather is warming up, and the snow is going to melt very soon- I again do nothing. But if its going to stay, then the sets that I can't see, where the hole is snow covered- Then I'll shovel or rake the pattern to a mottled look, & give the set fresh urine.

If the set is still visible- that is, I can see the hole or most of it, I'll leave it for a day or two more. Or more likely if I have to stop at a location I'll redo the set by raking and fresh urine and over the next couple of days I'll get them all if unworked.

remakes are great- a big dirt circle in the midst of snow, talk about eye appeal.

If I get a snow with a day or two left, no matter I'll leave everything untouched as not worth the effort for the coyotes left when I'm pulling so soon.

Thoughts?

[Deleted]

I'm usually out of the wide-open fields by snow time but not completely.  I don't get a lot of snow in Dec and really not a lot of strong winds.  Those two conditions which I think are less severe than yours allow me to make sets that will continue to work.  That being said, I do change set type with the advent of cold and snowy weather, I go to either my walk-thru, or if the snow is deep enough, my blind trail sets.

Since I'm not using a "visual" set like my Disco at that time I'm happy to have my walk-thru covered up to 4" of nice snow, nice meaning not frozen crusty type.  I need to clarify the crusty snow comment.  When there develops a crust it can be very thin so I actually check it every morning and leave the set alone, including not disturbing the wafer crust.  If I feel the crust is seriously muffling the scent dispersant I remove it but a lot of times the crust can become very wafer-like due to freezing & thawing so I leave that.   I preplan for this with my jaw guards and increase their size but don't get too high, just high enough to make a bump in the snow, just like my backing.  As we know, 2 bumps always work well!!

Yes, people tracks are pretty much a non-issue.

Snow causes another difficultly because it muffles the scent volatilization.  The coyote smells it for sure BUT I feel it has some difficultly pinpointing the exact source of it.  This causes what I see as a different way of how they work the set.  There is far more foot movement almost on top of the set as compared to the same set in bare ground and they want to circle up wind and reasonably tight to the backing.  I think this circling is also part of the pinpointing act.  I know this from misses while learning what I needed to do in order to minimize them.  I have two answers to this puzzle.  

One is to use a 3rd mouse hole instead of the jaw guard.  This really takes advantage of their extra foot movement.  This works well enough for me that if I see in the forecast that I have 2-4" snow coming I add the 3rd hole before the snow. 

I only use the 2nd adjustment when I have deep snow 8"+.  With deep snow I add a 2nd trap on the up wind side of the backing.  I make my walk-thru with or without a 3rd hole but literally drop a 2nd trap behind the backing on a drag.  I use a formed piece of plywood with a handle and after I've finished the set I just reach over the backing and stamp an indent to place the trap in, toss the drag and sift snow over the trap.  This 2nd trap accounts for 75% of the catches with this set.

I'm certain if I wasn't so lazy, adding a 2nd trap with any snow depth would be a very good thing to do.  If I hadn't been having the success I do with my adding the 3rd hole I would add a 2nd trap in a heartbeat.

EXAMPLES of the 3-hole walk-thru-  youtu.be/MM8q5cfTO1A
                                                    youtu.be/TAflasGa16g

[Deleted]

BTW, these are the type of weather and set conditions from last year's experience where the Harris NDZ trap shines for me!  A round-jawed,dogless trap that is very strong and very fast that will fire where ever pressure is applied to the pan. Snow covered sets with little to no guiding yet with set construction AND attraction that causes maximum foot movement.  I had this thought last year as winter came so I switched completely over to the Harris traps as snow came just to see if there were some positives or negatives attributes between them and my Jakes.  This year it's Jakes in the fall and Harris in the winter.

[braveheart]

I am like Steve . I leave things un touched for 2-3 days depends on the snow how deep. I use sticks to guide with by trap. I try to stay high at all times which helps in the snow. Got me a big leaf blower to blow a large area clear. I check some traps make sure my water proofer program is working. Then hope all the snow leaves soon. Have went to 4 coiling all my traps after 2 years so the fire up hard,

[Deleted]

If we're talking about snow, let's not limit the conversation to a particular depth.  I absolutely love it when I've got over 6"-8" of snow depth deep enough to the point I can't travel by quad.  The deeper snow opens up the ability to blind trail set with ease but what happens when I've got a low population and I can't find trails or I'm waiting for trails to develop?  Well, I just continue to use my winter-modified walk-thru set, makes no difference to me or to the coyotes whether there's 3" of snow on the set or 3" on it and 13" around it, they'll work the set the same!  

As far as blind trail setting, I set my footholds in the same manner I hung snares back in the late 90's.  Back then I prescribed to old Newt's methods of snaring and when the State took my snares away I just converted the snaring principle over to footholds.  There is one real key to my success whether it was snares or footholds, I NEVER hung a snare nor set a foothold unless I can identify that the trail was used more than once.  If I don't catch the next coyote that uses that trail it's an absolute fluke!  I know of no other foothold method that will almost guarantee a catch like trail setting in the deeper snow!

One observation I've made using trail sets in the snow is that the shallower the snow, the less inclined the coyotes are to step in each other's tracks.  In a few inches of snow depth tracks can vary up to 1.5" off other coyotes tracks but as the snow becomes deeper the more the tracks will center-up so to speak to the point it gets harder to tell how many and when the coyotes came though.  Careful observation and experience will keep you from wasting setting a trap in a one-time track!

youtu.be/MNa1UbuHc-o

youtu.be/98xNZ5PugDM

[trappnman]

the problem with snow besides the obvious, is that access is so limited. Unless you want to trap off of a snowmobile, its walk in. and once deep snow comes- very few coyotes up in the fields, and more in the coulees and hills.

While I understand your trial sets in snow- aren't the deer also following the same trials more or less? At least the main ones with the most travel. At least that is the case here. FYI- our snare laws here are pretty decent except for loop size, but one law is silly if followed- illegal to set a snare, in any trail used by deer.

True deep snow trapping for me, the few years I tried it was so low % that it was strickly a hobby line- but nothing prettier than a red in snow, etc.

"Snow causes another difficultly because it muffles the scent volatilization. The coyote smells it for sure BUT I feel it has some difficultly pinpointing the exact source of it. This causes what I see as a different way of how they work the set. There is far more foot movement almost on top of the set as compared to the same set in bare ground and they want to circle up wind and reasonably tight to the backing."

I agree, found the same thing in my over subtle blind sets- more digging to pinpoint odor.

Snow is a cruel teacher. It doesn't teach you much on the catches, but oh boy does it on the misses.

some tentative observations:

1) if I have standbacks and refusal to work the set, its usually from a distance. I think these coyotes are set shy, and are aware of the set but will not work it.

2) Contrary to what I would expect, I seldom have a blown out hole and no coyote, meaning working from side/back of set, in snow vs bare ground. Part of that mght be far more time on bare ground vs snow.

3) My most common cause of a miss, is a slight digging at one part of the trap bed- I take this to mean he is smelling the trap, and with snow covering it is more curious, thus the little digging. and then move on.

4) next, is luck. With guides under snow, sometimes the set is worked from an angle that wasn't apparent on bare ground, but with snow, its "the" pathway. Where he just missed the trap.

I depend on visuals. Without making every set ready for snow (I don't, ever the optimist), the white skulls and bones are next to useless, so I usually at the minimum will clear a space for the skull, even if I leave the sets alone.

Your leaf blower idea- We got a converter so we can charge batteries, but never thought about weed whippers or blowers. Lori has been cleaning out tall grass areas with a sickle. With a 100 foot cord, thats going to be a thing of the past, and same with light snow and leaf blower. Ah, the modern age lol.

[Deleted]

the problem with snow besides the obvious, is that access is so limited. Unless you want to trap off of a snowmobile, its walk in. and once deep snow comes- very few coyotes up in the fields, and more in the coulees and hills.

You bet access can be a problem.  10-11 years ago I bought a Skidoo Tundra just for this type of trapping.  I had outstanding success the next 4 years but then it seemed weather patterns changed and I'd get 4" snow then 1” of rain!  Sold the sled 3 years ago and now use a quad all season long.  I haven't had snow so deep the quad wouldn't get me in and out.

The one problem I'll have with a deeper snowed-over set is rolling.  They smell the lures/baits and maybe they dig but I don't know that because once they've rolled that sign is gone.  Every time this happens, the trap is fired but it never scares them because they'll go maybe 8'-10' and roll some more. LOL  Every time I remake the set and sift a snow covering over, I'll catch a coyote in a couple of nights, never fails!

pWhile I understand your trial sets in snow- aren't the deer also following the same trials more or less? At least the main ones with the most travel. At least that is the case here. FYI- our snare laws here are pretty decent except for loop size, but one law is silly if followed- illegal to set a snare, in any trail used by deer.

They do so I look for a specific set location that uses the difference in the deer's stride vs the coyote's.  Both animals are stepping over obstacles in the trails so it's pretty easy to see where not to set to catch the deer and where to catch the coyotes.  That being said there are deer runways that I just plain avoid, the ones close to feeding areas and fields but I do set in the thick stuff where they could bed.  The thing is, the deer are pressured out of any particular bedding area if the coyotes like to hunt it for them and bunnies.  Like rabbit patches, deer like to bed in them but once the coyotes start visiting more frequently, the deer leave.  I catch a deer less than once year and they don't pull out of a Jake so it turns into a rodeo so I study the trail pretty hard before I set!

Setting where coyotes get on and off ice is a trail set though it's usually only 2'-10' long and that's plenty long enough to set.  Ice is a magnet to coyotes & fox and they always have favorite locations to get on and off the ice.  Also, coyote almost seem to have a different demeanor about themselves when they get on ice.  There's ALWAYS a lot of grab-assing & frolicking going on when they 1st get on the ice and I'll see where they appear to get done and line out either off the ice, start hunting up the iced-over beaver runs, and checking out all the rat houses.  It's like snow & ice covered swamp becomes a stall-out!
youtu.be/m6oCBnInCFk
youtu.be/f_SSRRUWb48

[Deleted]

I think this has inadvertently been a good thread that shows the difference in trapping territories.  I've seen many, many photos of your catches over the years Steve and if you view my late -season videos, I'm guessing things have to be quite foreign from your's except maybe the coulees could compare to tag alder swamps.   Your farm ground is way different than mine and when it comes to snow, I have the ability to follow the coyote and move to the woods & brush.  Whereas you maybe can't because you don't have the type of wooded country I have, so for you the only difference with your properties is the snow cover. I don't know at all what Marty is trapping in but it sounds similar to yours.

The very reason why I started making videos of my coyote trapping was to show two friends, who don't live anywhere near me, what my territory really looked like and how I trapped it.  I just expanded the videos to the public for the very same reason, that's why I tell people my videos are not intended to be instructional but to show the country I trap and share my observations and opinions.

[northof50]

the first line of your statement left me out in the cold.....150 days long when it comes.

leaf blowers are run on mixed fuel = no odour problems

[trappnman]

That looks like pretty sandy country? I do have some habitat like that here, but mainly on what is called Sand Prairie here- old sand dunes that have been there for eons, the flat valley floor of the Mississippi. I trapped otter for the radio program in that country, and saw coyote sign to be sure. In fact, in that country during the otter, was when I learned 2 things- how to age coyote scat day to day in various weather and how to identify spring warblers a little better.

It would be interesting to know what a scat study in your area would show.

Here- and this surprised me- the #1 thing found most in scat, in 4 seasons, was voles. And not mice types in general, specifically voles. then it was vegetation, insects, other small critters- venison and beef were way down on the list, as were mice- and it was assumed, from the small occurrences of beef and deer that those were scavenged, not preyed on.

So I look where my concentrations are- and voles makes 100% absolute sense- they are hunting the short fields, the grassland edges, the "willow wet patches" for lack of a better term-

so- and this is my conclusion or theory- they are never hungry, but seldom full.

[Deleted]

The majority of the farm ground is a good mix, a mix that farmers in the northern part of the Co said that the twp had the last best farm ground before the big woods starts.  In fact, that one Twp back in the 70's lead the entire State in navy bean foundation seed production.  Wooded ground is all loam & sand as you would expect, if it weren't it'd be farm ground.  Earlier this summer we took out our in-ground pool and one of my property owners did it.  All the sand fill and black dirt cover came from the property I trap AND from the diary farm.  It's possible I've set coyote traps in that same dirt I now have in my back yard at some time over the years.

Concerning the scat.  I seldom find much scat out in the farm ground and I'm looking pretty hard in Sept into Oct.  My wooded territory is way different as should be expected.  From Oct through June, the vast majority and component of the coyote scat I find is deer hair and rabbit.  I'm sure small rodents hair is there but I'm only observing the obvious.

All that being said, this spring while testing grubstake lures/baits I had a coyote spend considerable time in front of two cameras eating popple buds off new-growth.  It wasn't a nibble here and a nibble there, he was eating them like we'd pick & eat blackberries.

[braveheart]

Seldom that is interesting about the popple buds. I make a Spring beaver lure for my self. It has about 1 month of effect on beaver but it has popple bud oil in it. The coyotes go right after it right into the water or water line to work it. This is Spring only. I am working of a fruit type lure for early season coyote trapping. Here the turds are full of deer hair. Right now again rabbit numbers are low again this year.

[Deleted]

Aug 22, 2021 4:08:35 GMT -6 braveheart said:

Seldom that is interesting about the popple buds. I make a Spring beaver lure for my self. It has about 1 month of effect on beaver but it has popple bud oil in it. The coyotes go right after it right into the water or water line to work it. This is Spring only. I am working of a fruit type lure for early season coyote trapping. Here the turds are full of deer hair. Right now again rabbit numbers are low again this year.

Definitely a sweetness they crave at that time of year.  The coyote’s spring elixer!

[trappnman]

I believe that. Can there be any animal more opportunistic than a coyote when it comes to food? Maybe coon to a degree, but the coyote is indiscriminate in what they will eat, I guess explaining why they dominate the predator scene in most parts of the country.

Wild plums in season, grasshoppers, corn, beans for all I know- wherever is "free" and easy. And in an area like mine, it explains why predation of domestics is very rare, and in my somewhat informed opinion not all that common on deer either.

Coon become single-minded on feeding- if on corn they don't want much else- if in plums the same occurs. I think coyotes are more sampling everything they come across-

Soooo........

That brings us back to lures. Do we change up lures based on the season? Thats one way for sure. And perhaps if I did more off season work I might be more discriminant with types of lures, but both in my spring/summer collaring and the little ADC work I do (no one wants to pay for coyotes here, further enhancing the little predation here) I find my fall/winter mainstays- pretty much all curiosity/call type lures. works as well in off season, as fall season.

While I have nothing against food type lures- reason I use bait- I don't think, unless perhaps in the dead of winter, that a coyote is working the set because he is hungry- he might eat what he finds (in his mind), I don't think thats the motivating factor in working the set.

That it all comes down to finding the odors intriguing, and wants to "see" what it is. To that end, I believe some odors are irresistible to a coyote-

skunk
minty
sweet
minky
horse

and that a combination of any two- makes both better.

[Deleted]

Aug 24, 2021 7:54:54 GMT -6 trappnman said:

I believe that. Can there be any animal more opportunistic than a coyote when it comes to food? Maybe coon to a degree, but the coyote is indiscriminate in what they will eat, I guess explaining why they dominate the predator scene in most parts of the country.

Wild plums in season, grasshoppers, corn, beans for all I know- wherever is "free" and easy. And in an area like mine, it explains why predation of domestics is very rare, and in my somewhat informed opinion not all that common on deer either.

Coon become single-minded on feeding- if on corn they don't want much else- if in plums the same occurs. I think coyotes are more sampling everything they come across-

Soooo........

That brings us back to lures. Do we change up lures based on the season? Thats one way for sure. And perhaps if I did more off season work I might be more discriminant with types of lures, but both in my spring/summer collaring and the little ADC work I do (no one wants to pay for coyotes here, further enhancing the little predation here) I find my fall/winter mainstays- pretty much all curiosity/call type lures. works as well in off season, as fall season.

While I have nothing against food type lures- reason I use bait- I don't think, unless perhaps in the dead of winter, that a coyote is working the set because he is hungry- he might eat what he finds (in his mind), I don't think thats the motivating factor in working the set.

That it all comes down to finding the odors intriguing, and wants to "see" what it is. To that end, I believe some odors are irresistible to a coyote-

skunk
minty
sweet
minky
horse

and that a combination of any two- makes both better.

Right on the money 100%!

[northof50]

I can add in camel to the above list.
and camel meat is rank to say the least.
came across some when de-boning one for the museum, so not every year I get some.
they don't show much interest in marten boxes hung 20 feet off the trail till one year I made the mistake that one squirt bottle was urine.

[Deleted]

BTW, I tested Stef's bobcat lure some years ago(minty) and it didn't test well at all on it's own.  Pikiduka(?)  If I remember correctly you used it WITH something else?

I see beaver isn't on the list but I've found a couple of baits with a beaver base that not only tested well but performed well on the line.  I also read where some swear beaver won't work at all for them.  I can completely understand this but I often wonder if these same people know what other ingredients are added to the beaver bait they dislike?  It may not be the base causing the problem at all!!!!  I've tested baits with bobcat, beaver, horse that I knew were the bases, a few tested very well, and more then a few tested terribly!

Some years ago I made up a batch of Tracy Truman's bacon bait and added a pint of Champion to it and a particular gland lure that canines have been proven to really like.  That bait pushed my long running, top producing bait right off the lines!!  Super!  The next batch I made was exactly the same EXCEPT I figured if adding that lure that was full of glands was good why not add the real, glands and make it super-dupper!  WRONG!!!  That batch dropped to 3rd place in success ratios and to not waste what's left of that batch I mix it with 2 other baits and that mix is my top performer the last 2 years!  There has to be something in that lure that supplemented the gland base because the difference in attractiveness was striking!!

[Deleted]

Aug 24, 2021 21:04:47 GMT -6 northof50 said:

I can add in camel to the above list.
and camel meat is rank to say the least.
came across some when de-boning one for the museum, so not every year I get some.
they don't show much interest in marten boxes hung 20 feet off the trail till one year I made the mistake that one squirt bottle was urine.

Can you compare it to hoof trimmings N50?  I think that’s what Weiser’s Liquid Canine Bait was/is.  I tested it before I had cameras but it tested like all the real good ones, canines love it the stinky SOB anyway! LOL. I sent a small sample to a good friend of mine who KNOWS scent making and he said “yup, that’s what it is”!  May or may not have anything else in the mix.

[braveheart]

I think Mink is super attractive to coyotes and cats. I know in real cold skunk works and so does mint. Been working on some new lures an baits the last 3-4 yrs. A totally new direction on formulation.

[trappnman]

When you think on how "sweet" decomposing meat smells at certain points, makes you wonder if sweet/minty/minky triggers that same response.