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Post by braveheart on Mar 7, 2017 4:48:52 GMT -6
Stale bait that is the reason to change the bait every 3 checks.A mink lure just a little will change the whole picture as they will walk right into it.
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Post by bblwi on Mar 7, 2017 19:08:01 GMT -6
I have used DPs for about 5 years now and mostly on a small scale, by that I mean a couple dozen or fewer. The first years my only catches were coons and grinners. I was basically setting the DPs where I typically would set foot holds or 160s. I then started to move the traps more into populated areas and or where I would not set the other traps. The 3rd year I made a homemade fish based bait and caught more grinners, skunks and 3-4 domestic cats. My catch ratio or refusals run the highest with DPs then any other of my set options. My highest catch ratios for coon are with footholds in water followed closely by 160s in blind sets in trails. The DPs really interest me in the speed that one can set out and pre-bait and pre-set, but I need to get better at getting higher catch rates.
As to mice I have used golf balls, cups, grass wads all with average minus success in my opinion. I am moving more to a dry bait and using a marshmallow on the trigger, not so much so coons don't feel the metal but it seems to limit the mice getting the bait below the trigger more. Yes bait in these traps does get stale and needs to be cleaned out and re-baited.
Bryce
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Post by braveheart on Mar 8, 2017 5:15:31 GMT -6
I run a piece of silicon hose on all my DP triggers.It makes a big difference especially when it gets cold out. I only run a dry bait on all my dp's ground fish will work but it will all get rotten and watch the grinners and skunks pile in. I think most of the Dp knock downs are from skunk and grinners working the trap and pushing it over trying to work the trap.I know my pellet bait will not go stale for months in a bag and weeks in a trap.Carry all my bait in a small wide mouth plastic bottle and only fill to the trigger so they are grabbing the trigger right off the git go.
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Griz
Demoman...
Posts: 240
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Post by Griz on Mar 11, 2017 10:45:13 GMT -6
... But contrast that with dps and buckets/boxes- where, using the same lures and baits, plus some ones I never use with footholds ie tuna, dry types, dog food, marshmallows/sweets- I certainly caught coon, but the misses were unacceptable to me for the period I was trapping- late fall and winter. ... I can't tell you how many times I've had coon tracks up to the box, or around the dp- but never trying for the bait. this goes right back to my belief coon aren't the all hungry all eating machine so many think they are. Except for 2 periods- early fall (or late summer) and spring are they that way. the rest of the time, once fat and stupor overtake them.....not so much. Agree. For those late season coon that are fat during stupor it is hard to beat a trail set with a snare. The coon only needs to walk down the trail. However, this requires a trail that is being used. If the trail goes through enough grass for cover a #220 works well if legal and away from areas near pets.
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Griz
Demoman...
Posts: 240
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Post by Griz on Mar 11, 2017 10:56:29 GMT -6
I run a piece of silicon hose on all my DP triggers.It makes a big difference especially when it gets cold out. I only run a dry bait on all my dp's ground fish will work but it will all get rotten and watch the grinners and skunks pile in. I think most of the Dp knock downs are from skunk and grinners working the trap and pushing it over trying to work the trap.I know my pellet bait will not go stale for months in a bag and weeks in a trap.Carry all my bait in a small wide mouth plastic bottle and only fill to the trigger so they are grabbing the trigger right off the git go. Agree. But, I run marshmallows on the trigger. I also put a large marshmallow in the top hole to keep out rain when rain is predicted. Often the mouse is caught and becomes bait at a coyote set.
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Post by cameron1976 on Mar 12, 2017 7:54:51 GMT -6
I find DPs to be a good tool on the coon line. I would not want to be limited to just them, but admit anymore I wouldn't really want to eliminate them from my line either.
I do like the speed of them. Will they catch every coon that comes along? No, but then again no set or trap catches every one. Like anything they have to be set on location to work.
Interestingly enough sometimes I run into an area where the coon, for whatever reason, just aren't interested in them. One particular location comes to mind. I knew coon were there, and set several DPs. Not one produced. I was beginning to wonder if the coon had moved on. Stuck some trail sets in and immediately started catching coon. Go figure. This has happened to me in a couple of other instances as well. If you find your catch dropping with DP's in an area that you know holds good numbers of coon, try setting blind sets in some of the trails. I bet you are pleasantly surprised with the coon you add to your catch.
As far as the trap itself I honestly seem to do about the same catch percentage whether the trigger is push/pull, or pull only. This surprised me a bit. I remember purchasing a few white Z Traps some years back with the thought that they were going to be coon catching machines. They caught coon, but no more than my brown dipped, pull only Duke traps. I will also add that I do not like the circle triggers. For me they just don't seem to catch coon like the straight triggers.
In regards to bait, I have tried many different things. I have used marshmallows with syrupy baits applied on them, various kinds of kibble baits, and even cat food with a shot of salmon oil. All work to some extent. The big issue with these baits is mice and weather. I know many are saying to cap the trap and my problem is solved. I have tried that and was not impressed. For starters I don't want barriers between the coon and bait. If he's hungry I want it easy for him to work the set. Relying on the coon to pop a cap off or remove a cup is one more step that might cause him to lose interest. I also remember trying a tin foil covering. I would sometimes find where a coon had worked the set, started playing with the foil, and moved away without working the set. At least that's what tracks in the mud told me. Did it happen all the time, no, but it did happen from time to time and that was enough to convince me to stop doing it. I blame the short attention span of the coon. He started playing with a shiny object and forgot about the food in the tube. For the last couple of seasons I have played around with a rubbery trigger bait sold by Lee Ruewsaat. They come pre-scented and slip over your trigger. They work well. For one they give the coon something squishy to grab onto. Rain, and freezing temps don't bother them either. In the case of very heavy rains/floods a little shot of salmon oil (or any other scented oil) will bring the smell back and get the coon working them again. They are a little pricey, but they are re-usable. Anyway not trying to sound like an advertisement, just passing along something that has worked surprisingly well for me.
I will also add that if you like a commercial kibble bait, Marty's Coon Crunch is pretty darn good.
Again, I view the dog proofs as yet another tool to add to a coon trappers arsenal. They are fast to set, and can certainly help you put some coon on the boards. That being said, don't fall into a rut and ignore other traps either.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 14, 2017 13:44:39 GMT -6
Interestingly enough sometimes I run into an area where the coon, for whatever reason, just aren't interested in them. One particular location comes to mind. I knew coon were there, and set several DPs. Not one produced. I was beginning to wonder if the coon had moved on. Stuck some trail sets in and immediately started catching coon. Go figure. This has happened to me in a couple of other instances as well. If you find your catch dropping with DP's in an area that you know holds good numbers of coon, try setting blind sets in some of the trails. I bet you are pleasantly surprised with the coon you add to your catch.
don't get me wrong- I'm not anti DPs per se-
but your example rings true to me. one reason is that early, I find coon to be food source specific. For example- try catching them in baited sets around a sweet corn patch in the milk stage. I was one of the earliest to try dps- even did a product review for FTA mag- and I dipped them at the beginning brown, and had very little success in fall woods with leaves on the ground. Only when I painted them white did I have decent success- and after a catch or two they where bright and shiney and problem solved. Those first seasons I was an advocate- I caught a fair amount of coon with them, my only real con was I was missing fox with them, fox a dirthole would have caught-
but those were years I was taking a lot of coon- never hit 1000- but with land and water combined did good enough I was considered "a coon man". And that was with relatively few traps with a very high population. And dps were a part of it.
but when the populations dropped, and esp now- I don't think the % of misses went u per se- that is say 1 in 5 coon ignore them- if you have a short supply of coon it matters- if you got 25 coming by a night it doesn't.
I knew a guy that trapped coon in same era- and he went to all dps as the greatest tool ever- I heard he got out of them after a few seasons. Flathead40- you know the guy- you know why he did that?
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Post by cameron1976 on Mar 14, 2017 14:12:48 GMT -6
Never really understood the guys who limit themselves to one trap or style. I like versatility, especially with coon. Given their wild mood/appetite swings it only makes sense to arm oneself with a variety of weapons.
If I had to go to one style of trap on coon it would no doubt be footholds, simply because they work and are versatile. That being said, I hate the idea of being limited to one type of trap.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 14, 2017 18:09:00 GMT -6
that's the difference between you and me- it irritates me to do change systems or rather mixing systems. I like it so every set is the same regarding trap, stake, etc. BK- I miss him, he had a lot of knowledge when he was on the forums- anyways- we were talking mink- I was defending blind sets, he was advocating BE sets and he said to me- "Steve, I think we are both catching the same mink" this is a good thread- another related tangent- I think most trappers with enough time under their belt, combined with good success- settle on 1 trap, 1 style, 1 type of set simply because experience has shown them that THAT particular combinations works best, more often than not. not to say we don't put in different sets- but in...say 350+ coyotes sets we set this year- all but a mere handful were 1 type of set. So when I read- and please, no offense meant to anyone, just my opinion- but when someone says they always set an A type set, a B type set and a C type set at every location- esp but not limited to coyotes- I wonder how much success they have had. If you catch only a few coyotes, and catch 1 on this set, and 1 on that etc- there is nothing there to draw conclusions. Because with greater numbers, one SEES that a particular set outproduces others, and at the very least, a predominance of the sets would be that type. Same with mink blind sets- I KOW what type of locations produce best- with set others that might take a mink?
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Post by braveheart on Mar 15, 2017 3:30:11 GMT -6
I too like everything the same.All my coyote traps finally as of last year switched over to Vic, Mongomery 4's.And run all steel screen on them. Coon and mink I run all flopper pans on Bolt style drowning set up.And one type of dp. I make a few dirt holes for coyote but bones and grab stick carry the work load way faster. I make all pockets for mink we have almost all muddy banks and mud bottom so a blind set is almost impossible.I have got a few mink around tiles that are blind sets.
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Post by mustelameister on Mar 15, 2017 4:56:58 GMT -6
I was defending blind sets, he was advocating BE sets and he said to me- "Steve, I think we are both catching the same mink" Not necessarily. Where is the blind set and where is the BE set? That mink will only pass this way once this time around. He ain't gonna run the bank, turn around, run back a hundred yards, then swim on the bottom up stream to where he turned around. And we're not considering muskrats in either set, or the 'coon in the blind set. Variety is the spice of life for this water trapper. At a given stream location, there will be a pocket and a blind set on each side of the stream. Both pocket and blind set are on drowners and terminate at the same point. Goes in just about as quick as setting one of these two locations. And if there's a high bank above, with a 'coon trail pounded down hard on it, two DPs set about 10' apart, both ziplining to a single terminal stake in the bottom of the creek. Maybe on both sides if sign warrants it. Maybe there's a log crossing this stream and I've got a couple of #220s up there rigged to cables that will allow the 'coon to fall into the creek below and hold it there. And . . . if the location offers it, at least one BE set on each side, if not more. Bottom edge sets continue to amaze me. Wish I had focused on this area a long time ago. If I'm gonna make the stop, I'm gonna set it up to catch passing fur. I ain't proud, I've had a dozen sets in one spot before. Pocket, blind, DP, BE . . . why not? Ten stops like this and you're checking over a hundred traps. I call that firepower. Ain't nothing prettier than motoring up to a spot or walking into a stream section like this and as you come upon it you've got 4 or 5 'coon tails swaying in the breeze, a 'rat and a mink just down the slide wire, and a couple of traps missing from their beds but the water is too deep to know what's down there. Magic time.
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Post by RdFx on Mar 15, 2017 7:45:58 GMT -6
Ditto on what Muskrat mentioned...... oh sure wish i knew BE many years ago.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 16, 2017 6:49:23 GMT -6
Ain't nothing prettier than motoring up to a spot or walking into a stream section like this and as you come upon it you've got 4 or 5 'coon tails swaying in the breeze, a 'rat and a mink just down the slide wire, and a couple of traps missing from their beds but the water is too deep to know what's down there. Magic time.
very very true- I always pause a moment-
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I think you missed the point BK was making Mike- and that was there are only so many mink on a stream.
or I guess coon, beavers, et al.
BK's point wasn't that one set was better- in fact it was just the opposite- that in equal hands- EITHER set is going to catch about the same amount of mink over a season. His point wasn't that I was trying for this population, and he was trying for this- but we both had an equal number of the same population.
There is a difference, in being a fly fisherman and someone that uses flies a few times a year. We all know how to perfect a new fishing or hunting technique- and that is to use it if not exclusively, but at the minimum most of the time. A good fisherman, over time- using any method as the preferred method- is going to catch about the same amount of fish assuming equal time/location.
this thread has morphed quite a bit- but damn is it interesting- so let me digress a little more........
One of my top pet peeves, is those that tell me "I don't want to wander up and down a creek looking for a blind set"
that tells me they set few blind sets. and they are looking for "book" locations, and not reading the stream and not knowing much if anything about mink habits. (such as the "mink investigate every hole"...which has exactly as much validity as "coyotes can't be caught at a backing they can't see over")
Because knowing mink habits- the set locations are obvious.
let me give a whatfor of what BK meant specific to our discussion.
A BE set is made why?
IMO, not for travel- I do not believe mink use underwater ie as muskrats do for extended travel. I think when they are underwater where a BE set is made, they are there for one purpose and that is hunting.
and underwater hunting...which means 1 thing....he needs to take that prey somewhere to eat it. A small minnow he might jump on a rock, eat and back in...but minnows aren't his prey. I know mink are a BIG eater of eating size trout (I know it both in DNR reporting on chipped fish, and my observations viewing, and results as told below).
where do they go? Safe, and not too far away. easy to find, even easier to make a new one. Multiple times I've had a created "resting spot" have the trap gone, with a trout laying there- and a nice mink at end of wire.
same mink, same habits
Once and gone? ahhhhh....maybe...in competition or in and out lines- but more often, if you are in a good prey area, they don't go far or stay away long. and mink sets should always be made in multiples of at least 4, cause good mink prey areas also mean, for the most part on creek, good muskrat habitat as well.
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Post by mustelameister on Mar 16, 2017 17:22:56 GMT -6
I think you missed the point BK was making Mike- and that was there are only so many mink on a stream. or I guess coon, beavers, et al. BK's point wasn't that one set was better- in fact it was just the opposite- that in equal hands- EITHER set is going to catch about the same amount of mink over a season. His point wasn't that I was trying for this population, and he was trying for this- but we both had an equal number of the same population. I think I ignored that point Steve, LOL. A fly fisherman I'm not. This takes me back to my teens in the 60s when my younger brother and I ran 800 hooks a day in the summer trotlining. A hundred hooks a line, each hook three feet apart. We bluegill fished with a couple of cane poles, and bass fished with both of us casting at the same stump, one on each side. Never pursued trout. Came home many times with a basket of bluegills, crappies, several bass, etc. Commercial fish were a mix of catfish, bullheads, carp and buffalo. Never really focused on one fish. And when I water trap, I'm never really focusing on one species. You're a sniper, and I'm a shotgunner. I'm not thinking about a lone mink and what it's doing. Your theory regarding what they're doing on the bottom sounds very good. More than likely they're hunting. Sure makes sense, mink scores underwater and brings it up on the surface to feed in a safe place. Make the set and get on down to the next location. I think I've become spoiled by trapping big river systems. And now that I've been down here for seven years, I'm liking my carpet bombing technique even more. I like the number of traps I can have out and working at any given time. I'm enjoying the December through early March BE trapping with colonys and BGs more each year. 200 BE sets out checked twice a week. That's what I call comfy. If 'rats and mink prices climb back up again, I'll add more. Dunno where this is going, I feel like I'm still experimenting. I continue to be utterly amazed at what constitutes a "bottom edge". Edge of a weed bed, edge of a log, a fork in the stream presents 4 possible BE locations . . . And I continue to be amazed at the effects of weather on both mink and 'rat movement. And the movement of 'rats and mink with respect to the calendar. Two book titles come to mind: The Marshland Wanderer with reference to muskrats, and Mink Mania. That describes February through early March. I couldn't sleep knowing there were just a couple of blind sets waiting at any particular stream location. I'd rather be checking half a dozen to a dozen BE sets anytime. Can't help myself. I'm addicted to BE sets. Maybe they're doing more than just hunting food down there! Hey . . . ain't this thread about dog proof traps and mice??? What the . . .
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Post by flathead40 on Mar 16, 2017 20:46:47 GMT -6
Steve, I don't know for sure why he switched to all DP's. I've been in and out of this thread, it is for sure interesting. It reminds me how many different ways there are to skin a cat. You could take 2 trappers, give them the same square miles of good territory. They'll both catch a pile of fur, but they might never see each other except for passing on the road. To me that means they look at the same ground differently. That's what it was like with the DP guy you mentioned. Even in areas with limited water. He looked at the same ground differently. Not better or worse, just different. I can't get the hang of setting strictly DP's. Cant make myself do it. He did and it worked for him. I enjoy Mr. mustelameister's tales of big river trapping. I've never run a boat line, but always wanted to. I even bought a boat for it the year coon prices tanked. Still got the boat, still almost new, so one of these years I'm going to try it. Sounds like a lot of fun. Might have to wait until I get retired now though, seems like trying to figure out coyotes gets all my focus these days.
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Post by braveheart on Mar 17, 2017 4:03:58 GMT -6
The bottom edge set I have tried a little to many corn stalk leaves and debris.I think when they say bottom edge the trapper talk about 5-8 traps a stop. I set 2 and run to the new spot.I have never heard of a bottom edge trapper get over 200 mink in a 1 month or even to month time. And a pile of foot traps get a hundred or more a week with less traps.Everyone has there own style but mine is not BE trapping. Also I catch a lot of coon with dp's but I see it as a extra tool.Catch a lot but once again not like water trapping big numbers. I tell people DP stands for don't produce!!.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 17, 2017 8:56:48 GMT -6
Going back to my point- "I" don't want to wander up and down a creek looking for BE locations- and that says it all concerning how often I use them. Oddly enough, I've caught 3 mink triples (that is a mink consecutively in traps 3-5' away from each other)and 2 of those times were in BE sets- but I've never been able to duplicate that success. Years ago, I would set up 100-125 footholds on water, then in the next few checks set out 50-100 110s. I haven't set a 110 or any mink conibear for 4-5 years at least.
keep in mind my experience with water comes I n3 forms-
1) as Dad did- you trapped water as hard as you could, for those 2-3 weeks before freeze- and while you might dabble after that- that was the extent of my experience.
2) then when I went seasonal full time trapping, I ran through December 31, when seasons closed. The beginning of my true mink experiences.
3) Seasons were extended until end of Feb, and then my overall knowledge, and esp my winter knowledge, really took a jump up.
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I've only trapped a couple of rivers- and the Mississippi really wasn't a river per se- but even there, the big thing was river levels. The other river I trapped that was really a river, the Zumbro, had such water fluctuations that is was very hard to trap- I was trapping it for coon only, and could easily see on how any river system would lend itself to the BE set, simply because its unaffected by water levels.
Odd you should call me a sniper- my advisor in college would scold me all the time that in debates, I was a shotgunner- spraying shot all over until I connected and then zeroing in- he wanted me to take more of a sniper approach.
I am (was perhaps) definitely a multiple species trapper on water- but at the same time, within those species, I'm pretty darn consistent in what works the highest % for me, and what doesn't. for those that don'r know, my water system for most all species is pretty simple- find the ABSOLUTE best habitat in multiple spots on a creek- all fairly close to each other. For example last year, first stop was a deep hole on a small sprig creek, about as big as an average bathroom where I set 3 blind footholds and a colony. 1st check 2 mink, 2 rats- a critter in each trap. About a block down, a high bank with a deep hole on the main creek- 3 traps- 2 rats. a ways down, a sharp curve, high bank- 3 traps- 2 rats and a mink. So in 10 traps at three proven locations- proven over 25 years to be THE locations on that farm- 6 rats and 3 mink. in the next few checks took another mink at each wall, and a few more rats.
all 9 footholds same sets- only outlier was 1 colony, where I didn't catch another rat.
I have no doubt Mike with his system, would have done the same.
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Post by retired on Jul 18, 2017 11:39:39 GMT -6
I do a lot of "internet trapping" (seeking information " and contacting people who post things that interest me in the off season. Probably just like everyone else. Anyway, I'm getting the impression DPs really need to have a couple of things going on: baits that taste good plus something on the rim as a teaser and possibly a call above the trap. Ron Jones talks about "snacking" coon into a trap and he may be onto something. Locklear suggests an edible bait in the DP and something edible but different on the rim. Others are saying a call lure 24 inches above the set will pull them into the area and the good tasting, good smelling products in the DP will do the rest. Really, this is what we do with call lures in January when it's -5 and snowy.
I've seen plenty of bait a coon has gotten out of my DP laying a couple feet away. To me, it suggests they didn't like the taste. If I don't like what your restaurant serves, I don't go back for more. And I suspect coon are the same way
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Post by trappnman on Jul 19, 2017 8:47:18 GMT -6
thanks for bringing this up- it was a good re-read.
I'll say this on coon - its my experience that when a coon is particular food orientated, that it is almost impossible to attract him with a different food- but a good curioisty lure will always attract.
How are they getting the bait out of your dps? One reason I like liquid is because they need to go under the trigger
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Post by braveheart on Jul 20, 2017 3:55:56 GMT -6
I have ran a lot of footage on trail cams. Even with a 2 way trigger get a couple of pieces of bait out.They eat every piece one at a time then wham they get the trigger.
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