Anyone water trapping, Steve? anybody?

[lumberjack]

I have a couple token walking lines just playing around for mink. Its all in timber, shallow swampy streams with hardly much current- the only pinpoints are the few culverts, everything else is wide and featureless.. Rats are non-existant and mink are coming in slow.
It just feels good to get the few miles walk in, and a day with no catch is no big deal. With prices such as they are I feel no rush, making quality sets, blind, baited hollow logs, funnels in the channels, etc. Im just outside of town and been running the same tank of gas for weeks, that feels good, but the catch is suffering.
Hope everyone at least has a few out and are having fun.

[mustelameister]

I'll be getting my "walking" lines out starting January. Bottom edge for the most part. Still tinkering with a couple of experimental sets I started two years ago with very good results. I run these through early March when the season closes.

Funny thing, we were coming back from Green Bay last night, stopped at the Rotary light show in Waunakee, and as Susan is leaning her head out of the car taking pics of most every display (why I don't know, but, you know, women . . . ) I'm looking out my side and there's the creek that flows through Waunakee. With all the bright lights I could clearly see the open water and fresh snow on the banks and ice that occasionally extended into the flowing water.

And, of course, there were fresh mink tracks. In the water, out of the water, in the water, out of the water. I followed this mink's trail for nearly a hundred yards, in and out, in and out. Susan finally says you're really enjoying the show! Indeed I am was my reply.

Merry Christmas all!

[trappnman]

I checked out a couple locations that have always had rats, and no sign to be found.

first we had real cold (25 below), then a bunch of snow- and today big rains this afternoon. So am not unhappy to bot have traps out.

I've been going back and forth on whether I'll trap water at all- right now am waiting until mid jan - if we have a warm spell, might water trap with a few sets for a couple of weeks, and just freeze what I catch.

[bblwi]

Like many of you we got about 4 inches yesterday and that makes about 12-15 inches on the ground and quite a bit on the ponds, sloughs etc. I can see all the grey or wet spots on all of those. Thin ice for sure. This rain unfortunately for us will need to be heavy enough to melt all that snow on the water and start over making ice. That will be a real mess for us for sure. I am seeing the most houses on the little sloughs I have in years. My river line was hit or miss with the best section in years to some sections almost void of rats.

Bryce

[lumberjack]

Dont you northern tier guys have problems with coon neck rubs this time of year? My weather is much milder (not as much denning up)and rubbing is prevailent from about now on.... I get docked big time for it.

[trappnman]

usually I find they start rubbing a little later here. The month of Jan, trapping water, I get very few rubs until way late into the month-

what happens first here, is you get the colors turning, and you get those red/yellow necked and rear end coon.

[bblwi]

Ditto here on color as well. Some is hormonal change and some is urine stain on the boars (and they don't smell the best either) lol. I have some maple sap collectors that want me to do some late season coon catching as they are chewing their collection lines. These have all been cleaned but any bit of sweet odor or dripping and they find it and chew the lines up. The one place where we take our sap has 1700 trees on lines and it is a pain in the bu$$ to splice all those.

Warm here and it did not freeze last night. Most of the snow on the open areas of the sloughs is gone. Will have to wait for a while for enough ice to develop. I don't know how the ice will be in the cattails where the rats are if the snow trapped there kept things warm like last year then the season is pretty much over.

Bryce

[trappnman]

I've been mulling this over in my head for several days- and I'd like to hear some others thoughts on this-

the hardest thing, is to put into words what I'm thinking- but as in most things, best to start at the beginning.

I've been setting traps for almost 50 years. I was lucky enough to grow up with a trapping Dad, and we had a trout stream in our backyard that had mink and rats. I remember at 6-7 years old, Dad would set 2 traps for me, and I'd take them down after school. If I had a rat, I'd replace the rap and bring trap and rat home so Dad could take it out of the trap. Before that, one of my earliest memories was sitting on Dad's shoulders as he check mink traps in the dark in a soft snow- While that memory didn't set the course for my life in trapping (or perhaps it did) it certainly set the tone and my love of it.

I grew up as a water trapper-

Started coyote trapping in the late 80s-

Concentrated on coon when I went seasonal full time.

As Coyotes became my focus, more and more I went away from land coon trapping- for years I'd still set the hotspots, but over past handful of years never set a land coon trap. And not because of market causes, because of interest and energy reasons. I simply no longer had time to think about anything but coyotes during that period.

But coon were still important to me on water- really, they were the mainstay- There were years I took 2-300 coon just in Dec and Jan on water, in Minnesota. Coon meant I could profitably trap mink and rats during very tuff conditions.

Then our coon numbers took a dive. Ok- I could work harder, as long as value was there. and otter, beaver, rats and mink, could give you some VERY good days on the line vis a vis $$$$.

last year ran a short line for a few weeks- had great fun- so figured that would be my plan again this year- but the lack of rat sign is astounding- and running a short line for mink just doesn't appeal to me. give me 8-10 good locations, and I'll get a mink or three every check. Last year- first day set 23 traps- check day was 5 mink, 13 rats. All blind sets fwiw. About $50- but man what a fun day.

I have 1 watershed left, that I might or might not trap in January- I go back and forth so a lot depends on weather I'm guessing.

but it makes me wonder- I'll trap coyotes for $10 a piece because.....well, just because. Long line til I physically can't do it.

I wonder if I'm at the point where, as Seldom did a few years ago, just deciding I'm done with water? Time will tell I guess.

makes that decision to trap or not trap in January, more weighed than first glimpse. I

-------------------

What started me thinking on this was a comment my buyer made when I was selling- he said that several of his big coon men- those bringing in hundreds of coon each year, are in the position where they are rapidly loosing ground to development and land use changes- where he doubts they have the territory any more, to produce those large catches. Add in prices, that may or may not last for years- the cost of production- and except for rare exceptions is longlining as we know it to have become, pretty much over?

I don't think I could run a longline like I used to do on water- the animals just aren't there. A long series of floods winter, spring summer and fall- and the changes both natural and man made to the watersheds- has really changed things. I honestly didn't believe it possible.

I know prices will come back- but after each cycle it seems less and less trappers. The % of longliners has always been small- yet, in a way, I believe that longliners are the heart of the trapping game- someone sees Phils fox pic, or Marty Sennikers coyote pics- and it inspires them, it makes them dream, it keeps them going.

As guys like me wind down our careers in trapping, will there be others to take our place?

Or will ADC work take the front, and "hobby" (and I DO NOT use that in a negative way) trapping fade way?
If you took the time to read this, then take the time to post - I'm really curious as to others opinions- as I've said, I've been trying to make this post for a while, but hard to say exactly what I want to convey-

[flathead40]

Here in MN I think coon/water critters will always be the mainstay. If the prices are such that a guy can make some money, not even a living but some decent extra money, I think there will be numbers guys coming up. One has to believe most numbers guys start out as hobby guys.(most as kids) I've struggled to come up with a definition of "long liner", but I think the days of younger people having the opportunity to make a living from fur trapping are gone. The longliners or big number guys of the future will be guys that have made a living at something else, now they can trap. Maybe guys that take vacation so they can trap. So that may make them hobby trappers or not, like I said, depends on the definition you use. I think for the most part, the amount of preparation it takes to run a long line now days really limits the people that can do it. Just think about how long it takes to round up 50 or 100 good permissions. Just the time factor alone is limiting. Most people can't dedicate that much time, life moves so fast now, in so many different directions. That doesn't take in to account the money it takes to set one up. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I think there will be guys to fill in the void, but I think the whole picture will look different. Not better, but different. I also think at some point it will become almost impossible to do. There will eventually be too many people and too many regulations to do what we do, how we want to do it.(in this state)

[mustelameister]

My opinions here speak for the state of Wisconsin alone. With the apparent death of ditch trapping, longlining 'coon is done in this state. Racking up a couple thousand 'coon by knocking on doors and driving into the back 40s ain't gonna make it, IMO. However, a good water trapper, under the right environmental conditions, should be able to take a thousand 'coon minimum, if he is motivated by a decent 'coon market.

'Coon numbers fluctuate wildly in this state, from my observations, and I believe distemper is the primary culprit. Going into several 'coon seasons prior to the crash I was ecstatic at the 'coon sign I found along river banks, only to be totally perplexed at the lack of fresh 'coon sign and the number of dead 'coon caught up against snags in the current. This year the 'coon population was very high from all sign I saw, and it has continued to be that way up to the first real hard cold snap. This would have been a good year to trap 'coon in big numbers on the river. This will be the third season straight I did not set a trap for 'coon.

As you mentioned Steve, flood conditions have become the norm, especially down here in the Lower Wisconsin. Right now the river is up enough some of the later built beaver lodges are submerged under water and ice and I wonder how they're surviving out there. 'Rat marshes have been more stable, as they are less affected by the river on the other side of islands and such. But the raptors and otter have certainly taken their toll. There are huts out there, but fewer than last year. My drives up the Mississippi River from Prairie du Chien to La Crosse show me the same . . . a few huts here and there, but nothing like "the good old days."

I am prepared mentally, physically and equipment-wise to run a river longline next season if prices bob back up. However, you know I'm just a year behind you Steve, and it's getting harder to stay in shape without the exertion of trapping. The 16-foot V-bow with the 35 horse Go Devil has sat idle. There are a handful of younger river trappers that will be eager to get back into it when prices rebound.

Future of trapping: I do not foresee our President-elect making America great again. Nothing political here, it's just the way technology has gone. We've got many, many folks down here in southwestern WI working two part-time jobs because that's the way it is. I don't see manufacturing jobs coming home to America. I foresee a continuing slide of the buying power of the dollar. And the cost of health insurance is insane. Which means to me . . if the price of 'coon or 'rats ever comes back up, you're going to see a real surge in trapping numbers. There are still plenty of active 60-somethings and 70-somethings that will lead the way. Word gets out and boom, here it comes.

Trapper Ed numbers here continue to amaze me. Bryce correct me here if I'm wrong, but we'll probably crack another thousand graduates this year. Judging from 470+ graduate slips I've seen there is a large group of grads in the 30-something age bracket. That to me is a very good sign. And they're getting into it knowing what the fur market is doing.

ADC work will continue to grow in the urban areas. Hobby trapping will continue. And I'm speaking for Wisconsin.

And a fair number of guys have quit duck hunting, quit gun deer hunting, and are looking for something else to do. Trapping is, and has been, a "politically correct' choice for the Wisconsin outdoorsman and outdoorswoman.

Getting trapper ed into the ag programs in our high schools is going to pay off in big dividends down the road. Trapper Ed booths at large events like the Deer/Turkey Expo will continue to recruit students and sway those on the fence to view trapping in a positive light.

And the antis continue to shoot themselves in the foot with their ridiculous campaigns. You know what they are, ain't going to waste time wading through that garbage.

We need fur prices to pop back up. Period.

[bblwi]

Lot of Ag School class rosters being submitted now and more to come. Yes we will be over 1,000 again and with the rush to complete the correspondence course b4 the new requirement we could hit 1500 in a dismal fur market.
As I look over rosters and or talk and e-mail with those inquiring about TE the pattern seems to be this as far as adults are concerned.
1. Many are retiring or near retirement and now want to trap. With the huge decline in deer numbers up north we see far fewer interested in fisher trapping and now otter are all over and you may get 3 bobcat tags in a lifetime, these guys are mostly interested in coyote trapping to lower numbers on property they own, friends own or where they hunt.
Wisconsin has had a long history of high numbers of trappers that don't run the huge lines like other states. With 185,000 farms in the 1950s with cows on them, most farmers were at home a lot and they trapped their land. We were also NR for a long time.
Yes we had some years with some trappers doing a lot of coon but as Mike indicated that will be much more difficult in the future. We also have a far fewer coons when compared to areas of IA, ILL, MO and IN and southern MN. The northern 1/3rd of WI has only modest coon numbers and the main areas with large dairies have silage and alfalfa which holds far fewer coon than dry corn areas. We also have a lot of rural residents who don't farm. (2nd most in the Midwest) and "coon control" is a very common practice conducted by many and they choose not to want to pay high ADC costs so they find ways to get rid of them. I feel that one of the reasons our coon numbers cycle so much is in areas of good habitat they concentrate and then the 3 diseases, two distempers and Parvo nail them and due to the fact that we have large areas of modest to common density not high they don't fill in as fast as in some other areas.

For me what does the trapping future look like?
I am enjoying rat trapping more and more each year and more on public areas so competition can be heavy, which means one goes at it fast and hard. I turned 69 last week and paddling canoes in the wind, mud, vegetation or wading muddy sloughs or spudding 6 inch ice is hard work, so my days of doing that will be limited by the aging process.

Running coon lines really is easy compared to rat trapping it is just dealing with the bigger carcasses, skinning, fleshing and boarding with the numbers one would need to make extra monies.
Trapping canines really is for me in my area the easiest trapping when one thinks about energy expended, time etc. Running 60 canine sets from a truck or 4-wheeler and even moving them2-3 times is like Sunday School compared to setting out 150 rat and coon sets and moving 20-40 of those daily for a couple weeks.

I have a .243 now with a scope and an older Johnny Stewart caller. Nothing fancy but may try calling some yotes this year. If I like that I may water trap more early and shoot some yotes. I don't canine trap early as I am busy with a lot of other stuff and farmers here are taking silage, doing late 4th or 4th crops and covering everything with liquid poop until it freezes and then it snows so I have not done much canine setting here as of late.

Bryce

[mustelameister]

Dec 27, 2016 22:35:53 GMT -6 bblwi said:

Running 60 canine sets from a truck or 4-wheeler and even moving them2-3 times is like Sunday School compared to setting out 150 rat and coon sets and moving 20-40 of those daily for a couple weeks. Bryce

sissy!

[redsnow]

There are 2 young boys trapping on the river here above town, they're on Christmas break from school. They only have 4 traps set, if I'd known they wanted to trap, I'd have went over with them and helped set up the place.

A lot of ways of looking at things. I know guys that save up their vacation time and trap hard for a week or 2. Just like for me, every day that I take off of work, it's going to cost me about $100 to hire someone to take my place. At today's fur prices, that $100 is going to be hard to get back. Add in a tank of gas every other day. Very hard to break even.

We had rabies and I think parvo hit this area a few years ago. I think the fox are starting to make a little headway, but numbers are still low. We just don't have many beaver or muskrats. Corn farmers will shoot beaver on sight, and the DNR is very friendly as far as "crop damage" permits.

One of my landowners asked me to remove some coyotes, from one of their farms. They're to be making me a bait station, I'll run down there and string out some snares, after the 1st of the year.

I'll guess I'm like a lot of guys, I'll try to take care of my landowners. But with our numbers, prices and all, I just can't justify trying to keep 50 or so dirt sets working.

I also have a varmint call, starting January 1st, we can use lights to night call. Me and a bud will try to call a night or 2 per week.

[trappnman]

Very thoughtful posts!

and they pretty much parallel my thoughts.

At the conventions last 2 years- whats posted here is for sure occurring- I see a lot of new trappers (and this is thanks to WI trapping education outreach I have no doubt)and the interest is without a doubt in coyotes.

I sold but a handful of lures/baits for coon over past 2 years- but lots and lots of coyote stuff. And most of these are as mentioned in this thread- wanting to trap coyotes on their deer land, the neighbors, etc. And I do my best to cram into a short conversation, some basic coyote direction to help get them to the point where they catch a coyote or two. And of those that do- a few of them will get the bug and put in the effort to become a good coyote man. But will they become long liners? Boy...hard to do for many reasons. The biggest being permissions.

Public land here is for all practical purposes worthless for serious coyote trapping. It gets heavy use during prime time, and the lands used aren't coyote terrain- managed for deer, turkey in the hardwoods, and then you got the marshes. so to set up a good coyote line, you need a lot of permissions.

keep in mind that coon for example- if in area, any farm really that has corn, etc is as good as the other- I can't get permission here, so what I'll get it next store. But coyotes are different. In an area of many farms, 1 or 2 only might be coyote spots.

and if in good coyote country- chances are those permissions are granted. And unlike some other areas or species- there is NO sharing of farms with coyotes.

Which brings up this point- I've got a good coyote line. A lot of time and a lot of effort, went into putting it together. If a new guy was starting out, he might get a few farms on my lines edges, but overall, its going to be a tuff road to travel getting enough permissions to run a long line.

A romantic thought is that one of my grandsons would really get the bug, and take over my lines. But reality isn't dreams- those grandsons are going to have jobs, and kids, and everything else that are going to make running a full blown coyote line almost an impossibility.

I don't know when or if I'll hang up traps, but for sure will contract things a little as the years go by. I met a new friend this year-one of those guys that you felt like you knew forever within minutes. I see myself a few years ago in him, and for him to take over the lines, to keep the continuity going, seems like a good idea.

I don't know of any other way, to string together enough permissions to trap for 6-7 weeks on coyotes, to get enough farms worth trapping.

for sure, with Mn generous water trapping laws, one could run long water lines-

what kind of prices would it take to make that worthwhile dollar wise?

$15 green coon averages? That seems to be the point around here where I see large numbers of coon taken-

$15+ mink? $20 mink?

I'll be honest- I can live with a $2.50 rat- IF everything else has good value.

[mustelameister]

Dec 28, 2016 10:12:24 GMT -6 trappnman said:

for sure, with Mn generous water trapping laws, one could run long water lines-

what kind of prices would it take to make that worthwhile dollar wise?

$15 green coon averages? That seems to be the point around here where I see large numbers of coon taken-

$15+ mink? $20 mink?

I'll be honest- I can live with a $2.50 rat- IF everything else has good value.

$15 green 'coon average makes me $$$ bigtime. I've got 3 chest freezers and two minis waiting for that to happen again.

Mink to me are fluff. If I get some I get some, if I don't I don't. It's the 'rat count that makes the money.

Agree that $2.50 average would be fine on 'rats if everything else had value.

But to pursue just 'rats hard for $2.50 average will find me in a tree with my new crossbow or in the duck blind.

[lumberjack]

Like most everyone on here, Im wired to trap. There was a time when I thought of trapping every hour of the day, all year long. But, I am motivated by money, call me greedy, but I gotta live, the bills dont stop. Plus, Im getting older and those banks seem to be steeper.

It hurts to know Im practically giving the chinese and other countries the fruits of my labor for a couple dollars. Now I just play around, and like I said earlier, a day with no catch is no big deal, I can do my other vises and make a buck.

I too feel the squeeze of development around here, my. how things have changed over the last 10,20 30 years. Whats weird is I feel I came full circle, I am now trapping around town where I first cut my teeth. I told another trapper out there that Im kinda glad prices are low or Id be out there killing myself trying to rack up fur. Doubt that Id ever longline again, I would need 30.00 coon, 10.00 rats and 30.00 mink to even think about it.

[trappnman]

I'm getting that full circle feeling as well.

but-

yesterday went out and rechecked that beaver spot- some activity so I'll get after them sometime before spring. And as long as I have waders on...I'll have to put out a few rat mink sets.

but my goals are no longer $$$ on water, with these populations and pries. It will be simply for the enjoyment of it all. Hobby trapping in the purest form.

[bblwi]

Some of the highest concentration of wildlife around here is the donut rings in and around our expanding cities and metro areas. Many are built around some type of water, lakes, rivers, streams, ponds and now many sewage and drainage ponds to comply with regulations. This habitat is great for small prey species and birds and with feral cats we bring in lots of coons, skunks, grinners and coyotes. Fox are here too but mange is really taking its toll again this winter on our reds. These areas also have rats and thus mink. Many are hard to get trapping permission and thus there are several that have developed ADC businesses to deal with the issues. It sounds great but work not steady and involves squirrels, birds, bees, bats and other issues I find not my best fit. Evan though many of these areas have reasonable to good wealth there is a reluctance by many to fork out what we would feel to be a fair price for services rendered.

Many of the very large farms hire firms for animal control that covers a broad range and with larger fields, fewer fence lines and tree lines and small wetlands being drained there is not the wild life in much of the heavily farmed area around me, at least not like it was say 30 years ago.
It is kind of funny that in our highly populated urban and suburban areas animals are not harvested at great levels and in our expanding changing rural areas they want them all dead.

Bryce

[trappnman]

lots of truth there- changing habitat-

we used to have as many spotted skunks as striped 40 years ago- I trapped them for bounty, and it was pretty much 50/50. not sure what changed. but add into that gray fox- used to be fairly common, haven't seen one in more than a decade

I'm wondering if the coon will ever come back. during the late 50s and early 60s it was like that- you could set mink traps without a worry on coon- just never happened. and they came back big time. But its been 5-6 years since our populations went south- and no relief in sight

[lumberjack]

What about snapping turtles? I remember seeing them every month of the year, up on ridge tops, anywhere. I havent seen one in 5-7 years.