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Post by trappnman on Sept 21, 2016 7:21:20 GMT -6
Are you the main bread winner in the family?
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Post by bblwi on Sept 21, 2016 8:05:47 GMT -6
So you actually think or feel that these large companies would not have adapted to robots and streamlining their factories if they could hire labor for say 10-20% less in total cost per hour. Much of the rapid adaptation into robots and automation are in areas that were lower paying and in many cases less unionized from the get go.
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 22, 2016 5:32:28 GMT -6
Tman are you the bread winner In your family?
Bryce all business must figure cost, so automation must come at a lower cost or cost savings over time and keep production the same or higher. If it is still cheaper to higher people at the same rate of production why would they automate?
I do not buy that for a minute. Otherwise John Deerre would still be employing over 3,000 people, the packing house would still be up and running , and union numbers would be much higher than they are today, the unions are dying , why is it if nothing to do with wages and benefits?
Some jobs it is easier for people to do and yes at a cost savings over machinery, some jobs just need a person to do it.
We look at McDonald's and the uproar of 15.00 per hour, after that McDonald's looked into using touch screens to have you order food and then had people still cooking and hangin you your order but would have saved on the amount of labor hours. Business looks to automate when wages escalate to a pint it cuts into profits . Just the facts.
When you are paying people 30-50 per hour and you have say 900 employees and then you add into that a full benefit and lifetime retirement package and try to compete with non Union business something has to give. So as you have retirements instead of replacing some areas with people, you replace it with equipment.
Years ago most things at JD where hand welded now many of those line welding jobs have gone the way of robotics. We can look at many manufacturing jobs that have went the same, CNC machines can crank things out faster and be far more precise, but initial upfront cost are millions. Plus service and repair, the bottom line still has to show it to save and be productive, if not smaller areas still continue to do it by hand with people.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 22, 2016 5:36:32 GMT -6
Why is Ford moving these jobs to Mexico in the first place? There is your answer.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 22, 2016 6:43:40 GMT -6
of course its wrong to move these jobs- but your reason is the unions
mine is greedy corporations
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Post by bblwi on Sept 22, 2016 7:59:41 GMT -6
Currently John Deere has laid off thousands nation wide due to less than $3 corn and $9 soybeans and $15 milk. Farmers don't or won't buy equipment they can't pay for or borrow for. JD employs a lot of technology to replace not the expensive employee but the ones in the lower skill areas. There is a lot of technology and skilled craftsmanship needed in making modern farm and business equipment, thus they are produced here and those remaining employees are well paid as they work in skilled environments. Much of the technology in our farm equipment has been adapted from European engineers and then adapted to our larger scale operations. Skilled labor is in short supply worldwide and thus wages are more a factor of needing to find the labor.
McDonalds have had Icon screens for decades before any $15 per hour wages were paid. Those wages were talked about early in the oil field areas where labor needed to be attracted to the area. Not so much now with half the wells idle. The main reason for Icon screens is that now lower cost labor could get orders correct and change would be correct as well. We have had touch screens here since the 90s when they were offering work for about $7 per hour. The other advantage of the icon computer setups are for inventory control, ordering etc. etc. If it was just a $15 per hour charge for the order takers and no other advantage then there would not have been that investment to save a few dollars on a fraction of their employees. These screens also allow workers to rotate positions and learn all aspects of the work place and continue to keep customer service at a higher plane. Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 22, 2016 19:00:44 GMT -6
Bryce John Deere did not reduce employees in the last 10 years we are talking back in the early 80's and those numbers have not rebounded they have been replaced by automation, robots. Higher than avg wages, lot so benefits and perks versus coma ones like Komatsu and others they could not compete with, due to much higher inout cost than other makers.
Fresh news today on Flex steel furniture I just heard they have told the town of Dubuque Iowa you need to defer taxes for the next 5-10 years and build a us a new plant or we are in talks with other towns. They also want a new deal with what union labor they have left there. I think they employ around 250 people there today years back well over 1,300.
We shall see what the mayor and council have to say on that.
Customer service at McDonalds please ............ Cross training with a touch screen? Imworked at one in college we did not have touch screens , we crossed trained by having a different job on different shifts. mcDonalds as went down hill big time, don't think for a second after all the talk about McDoanlds and the sit in outside of Dickinson,ND for 15.00 jobs and the parting of automated screens taking orders was just a coincidence it was not.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 22, 2016 19:01:43 GMT -6
Tman if it was just greedy coperations why did they not do the same things in the 60's- 80's? Ford could have moved jobs along with others 30-40 years ago.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 23, 2016 6:26:47 GMT -6
many corporations were moved during that period- you were just unaware
but the reason so many are moving today is that corporations are no longer run as Pro American companies. Many if not most, are owned or partly by overseas investors, where THEIR bottom line is more important than the economy of any country.
your biggest problem in not being able to see the big picture on any subject, is you are so inoculated by "your guys" views on everything
For example- I say "beaches are made of sand". And you will say- "I have a friend whose brothers cousins kid- went to the beach and put his hand down, and picked p a rubber ball- so beaches are made up of rubber balls"
We will say nonsense- you will continue for 20 posts, then you will divert it and claim you never said that, and on and on and on
the moral?
see the forest sometimes.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 23, 2016 19:07:41 GMT -6
We lost a lot of jobs overseas many them gone in the last 30 years. Yes many now owned by overseas investors but many keep,jobs here if it is profitable, bobcat has changed hands many times yet they still remain made in the USA in North Dakota as long as the wages and profits stay stable they will continue to do so, as weight in shipping machinery is tough across the ocean.
No I say, I know first hand people who work in these places and what,by they tell me, they are there you or I are not. They are informed as working for these places you or I do not work there so we would just be guessing. I like info from the source not a website if I can get it. Because either side can make things look the way they want for their own good, like Hillary is not a lair, unions are great for production in a global economy in the US etc,etc.
At some point the cost of a product will be to high so something has to be done to remain profitable and sell numbers, those two things make companies move to other countries. Ford moved to maintain profit, by paying lower wages, lower benefits, and less hassle making cars in Mexico versus the US. That is the bottom line.
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Post by PamIsMe on Sept 24, 2016 1:00:35 GMT -6
"McDonald's looked into using touch screens to have you order food ..."
McD's does use touch screens to order food, but the clerk they have to hire does it. It saves them money because there are less errors. And, they had them before any furor over the higher minimum wage started.
IMHO when jobs started to be lost was when big corporations and their investors started gobbling up smaller companies. In Madison Oscar Mayer employed 4,000 people when it was run by the Mayer family. In 1981, the company was bought by General Foods, who was purchased by Philip Morris in 1985, who in turn was bought by Kraft in 1989. The company became Kraft General Foods and in 1995 was renamed Kraft Foods, then Kraft merged with Heinz. Every time it was bought out by a larger company jobs were cut. And now Heinz is closing it down with the last 1000 people going to the unemployment line and a huge empty facility will sit idle. It not only affects individuals but the whole area economy, even the water facility. I read today, Oscar's usage was 25% of their income. think rates will be going up to everyone else? My daughter works for US Cell and in the 19 years she's been there it has been bought out 5 times, each time cutting and/or relocating more jobs. It is now owned by TDS and she's been lucky to have survived the buyouts, so far. Who knows what will take over next and her job will get moved or axed.
These are not jobs going overseas. It's all about return on investment and stock price and to h*ll with employees. There oughta be a law...........
Pam
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Post by trappnman on Sept 24, 2016 7:00:46 GMT -6
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 24, 2016 7:48:41 GMT -6
Pam I can clearly see your more of a socialist and going on the edge of a central govt ruling all business in our country that to me is scary.
Business are free to buy other business that is what a free nation is about. Large mergers must get authorization as it stands at times. Yet you want a law telling business A no way you can buy business B in any regard? Scary form of running a free economy.
tman you can call ford what ever you like, I am not a ford guy never have been , never will be. Bottomiline they are moving to save money but first off they have to invest a lot of money in Mexico for the long term gain. Think about how many less union jobs because of this move? Does that save them money? You bet. Can they keep moving the jobs going forward sure they can and at some point bring them back to the US minus the unions.
Cost control is a major part of his ove we can all see that, if cars and trucks do not have some sort of price containment it won't matter in another 15-20 years as they will all be owned by 1-3 players anyhow.
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Post by PamIsMe on Sept 24, 2016 15:13:17 GMT -6
"Pam I can clearly see your more of a socialist and going on the edge of a central govt ruling all business in our country that to me is scary."
My point was that conglomerates are taking away as many, or more, jobs as companies going overseas. "Some" people have no problem making regulations and penalties for companies going to other countries and taking away jobs. What's the difference between that and more controls on conglomerates?
Pam
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 24, 2016 18:12:05 GMT -6
Pam many business are bought out by others had been happing for years. You buy low build it up and sell higher, that is how successful business works. You never want to sell on a down market for sure.
We have regulations In place already, to think we need more regulations on business? Then we wonder why many would just leave the country to operate?
Look at the outdoor industry and look up a place called vista outdoors and all,of the busienssss they have bought up, then look who owns vista outdoors a company called ATK they make small arms ammuntion and missles for our military. They try to cover as many markets as possible as if one goes down like out military budget under Obama has done their profits needs to come from some where else or lay people off.
We need less govt in our lives not more.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 25, 2016 5:40:28 GMT -6
we need less mega corporations in our lives, not more.
and once again, I point out the hypocrisy of TCs words, when the main income of his family, is from a govt job, and his old job was a govt job.
quite seriously, that's whats hurting the country- the attitude of its ok for me and mine- but not you and yours
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 25, 2016 8:20:04 GMT -6
No we need less big govt and more local control which is ran by local govts states and cities and county boards.
Not federal govt. look at the approval rating on congress and our president outside of maybe Detroit what local govt has that low of a disapproval rating amongst its people?
I know of none.
Again Tman you try and paint a picture that fits your agenda with me, never stated I am against all govt, if you can prove such show me. I am for lean and effective govt.
Education can be many fold,mpublic or private and off that many options exsist. That is the way it should be.
Look at common core, then look at all the states that have spent a lot of time and money writing their own standards , because our federal govt tried to put every state and city in the same box on the issue. That is big govt at its worst along with other things. I do not think you know the issues in dealing with public schools and the effects this president and First Lady have had in a negative way.
Again here in Missouri the federal,portion of public education is below 12 percent of the budgets m the highest portion comes from locals. Not the federal govt, yet they want to mandate some things that make little sense.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 25, 2016 8:22:10 GMT -6
I do not need big brother running my life sorry. My past job was for the state we lost all of our federal funding in 2008-2009 so local control has worked out best that is why South Dakota was the only state in the nation running their own predator control and wildlife damage program.
Business mergers have taken place for years, if someone wants to sell out to another why is that any of our business? You do not need a merger to have a monopoly , look at Microsoft? He has the market along with Apple no one else will get in, the cost too much. No Mergers needed. Anyone is free to enter but the cost is a lot.
You either run a Windows program or Mac program on your computer.
How much would pork and chicken be without the large production houses we have today? The more cost one has the higher the price has to be, very few business sitting on such a profit they can continue to eat cost without raising prices.
I will say, the American auto industry better get a handle on things or we will see more of this in the near future. Look at Toyota a non Union plant and guess which one ranks as the most USA made fleet of vehicles today. Yep Toyota look it up.
Ford can no longer state made in the USA under the guidelines for most of their fleet as well. . Chevy has a few offerings I think.
Cost containment better get handled or Toyota and others will own our companies in the auto industry one day.
Already happened with Chrysler who will be next?
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