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Post by trappnman on Sept 17, 2016 7:59:09 GMT -6
your food is put on the table by socialists
you see nothing ironic in that?
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Post by bblwi on Sept 17, 2016 15:00:49 GMT -6
A lot of us that you call socialists paid and worked our way through college so I guess it is appropriate that your family does as well. What I am grateful for is the public education system that I had 1st through 12th grade that gave me a shot to compete with those with more status and means. My principles are about being willing to provide for current and future generations to have the same shot I did regardless of background etc. If that makes me a socialist, liberal, left winger, progressive or living in the dark as has been referenced here many times those are labels I can live with as I know what I am able and willing to support and what I don't support. My belief is that the nation and the world is a better place when more are educated, informed and involved instead of working hard to just carve out the pieces for those that have more means to do so. Large and less violent societies need higher levels of literacy and opportunity to live above the survival level. I am a capitalist enough to realize that those investments paid for by all have good returns over the long term. Governments make and mint and print money which is a very socialistic practice to allow all in a society to be able to have a bench mark to know what value items are and what costs and returns are. This allows capitalists to fight over who gets more or less and for the most part if done legally and not forcefully the government does not interfere with those that practice those options.
Even more socialistically governments pass laws to try and protect those with less means and knowledge from fraud and schemes and most capitalists abide by those rules. Not all but most. We then use a socialistic court and jury system to select random citizens to judge if laws were broken or not. The socialistic court system then has the freedom to grant small to huge damage claims based on their review. Those are very socialistic things that most capitalists find valuable for them as it offers opportunity for them to work on behalf of many of our citizens.
Bryce
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Post by trappnman on Sept 17, 2016 16:43:40 GMT -6
very well said Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 19, 2016 18:42:00 GMT -6
Bryce where did I state to do away with education? My wife has been in that field for 25 years and counting. Putting in 70 hours a week.
Free higher education is not a good thing that I do know.
No our juries are picked by both sides so while I would call that democracy I would never call it socialism, each side is looking for jurors that will be "for? Their side.
Lawsuits have gotten out of control in this country , I would agree the purses won in some of these insane cases are too far Liberial or socialistic in nature and common sense must come back into play, do we all remember things like the hot coffe at McDonalds? I mean please. Many of these people look at the deep pockets and go for the pay day, that is NOT what our judicial system is about, because that is not justice in my book what so ever. How about the lady at Wendy's that planted the human finger looking for the big pay out? Wonder where she got that idea?
Our govt prints money today with no backing and then we wonder why we are in the trouble we are and gold has been crazy high compaired to a 50 year avg? Not good for,the country unless your investing in gold on a down cycle .
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Post by bblwi on Sept 19, 2016 21:38:23 GMT -6
I don't believe in free education as everyone needs some skin in the game. I have read many of your posts and you have referenced the poor quality of public education more than once and also that I have never heard you state you feel using tax payers money to send students from public to private schools is a poor idea. Don't try to keep impressing me with the years and hours that family has worked as I did that for 35 years and had 7 to 8 preps a week and also when I had 90 farmers I had individual on farm work plans for everyone of them so your not going to impress me with up to 70 hours and that was for 48 plus weeks per year as well.
You feel the amount of money is the socialistic aspect of our civil legal system??? Wow that is the capitalistic aspect. The court system is established such that if you can not afford a lawyer the government will provide council for you. That is the social aspect of our legal system yet you continue to narrow that down to too much money.
Forests are hard to see when the trees get in the way.
Bryce
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Post by trappnman on Sept 20, 2016 6:45:20 GMT -6
what he said
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 20, 2016 18:10:59 GMT -6
Bryce not impressing telling you my wife is damn good at what she does and she where multiple hats as well. She has the knowledge through work and 2 masters degrees and soon to be a PH.D. . She has worked her tail off for 25 years and not all can say that this I know from sitting on a board of education myself for a period of time.
She is elementary principle, special education director and also sits on the reading guidance program for the school and also on the curriculum portion of grade school as well. So if you put in your time in public education you should surely know not easy jobs. Ever dealt with special ed by chance? A nightmare of federal regulations and timely record keeping.
What was your job in education Bryce?
Yes I still believe in choices for education, and in many areas there remains poor quality public education that is fact. Time severed in a job does not mean best service in a job in any regard. I am also for retaining teachers based on their performance and not years served. I do not agree with the idea that just a classes grades are a direct reflection on teachers as too many other factors come into play, but I do agree with a school having the right to fire and higher as they see fit and not on some magical number of years put in then they become almost untouchable to remove from classrooms. Tenor is a joke. I have seen it first hand while sitting on a school board .
Court appointed attorneys ? Yeh ok. How many with money use such and why not? Your basis that our court system is socialist because of court appointed attorneys? My nephew has a court appointed attorney and he is going very soon to the federal prison system to do between 5-10 years, the judge will make that final decision on time served. He has been locked up for 7 months and has an actual face to face with his court appointed attorney 2 times in 7 months. His offer was to plead guilty, which I agree with and take what the judge gives you and just know your time served counts. Court appointed attorneys LMAO.
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Post by bblwi on Sept 20, 2016 20:43:43 GMT -6
I served 10 years on a board of education as well. We don't need resumes of each other I am sure your wife has earned her stripes and I am also sure she is not the only one that has.
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 21, 2016 5:40:21 GMT -6
Fair enough, but I still maintain educational choices are the rights of parents. Anyone can home school, while I a, not a big fan of that for various reasons they have that choice and right. So should other options be available as well.
As you also agreed Hillary and her 350 billion free tutition package for higher Ed is a terrible idea that is just more wasted money, and just another new social program that would not work.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 21, 2016 7:26:04 GMT -6
Bryce never said that-
why do you deliberately misquote people
so your "fair enough" rings pretty hollow
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Post by bblwi on Sept 21, 2016 7:56:48 GMT -6
As Steve stated I never said that her idea was terrible, I stated that I felt that having some skin in the game is important from my point of view. If you don't care to interpret what is stated in the real sense that it is offered it clearly shows that you don't really care what others views are if they differ from yours. Those types of attitudes typically don't fare well over the long term and this election is much about that in many ways. Sure many may hate Hilary for a lot of reasons and to vent their frustration they choose a person who has no real vision of how to establish a different path or political philosophy. I read a lot about people want change, do they really want change. I am doubtful that Americans are as change oriented as many of you think and we will find out if a bully with little political history or experience will defeat a politician with a long history of involvement with change with a traditional reference and with the baggage that comes from that long history.
What many don't want to state is if this election is close that means there will be little change in Congress and for all those that state they want radical change what they probably mean is they don't want Hilary as she is considered the status quo. I find it laughable that a strong willed female candidate can muster enough support to be a formidable candidate for the most powerful democracy in the World and people choose to call that more of the same.
Bryce
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Post by bobbrennan1 on Sept 21, 2016 17:06:47 GMT -6
So I'm guessing that with all the people that believe in climate change due to man that no one on here has a electric or hybrid car or solar panels or wind mills! Heck even I have geo thermal heat and air conditioning. I guess the concern isn't that great.
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Post by PamIsMe on Sept 22, 2016 2:26:05 GMT -6
"So should other options be available as well."
Other options ARE available, but if people choose not use the public education system, then they should pay for it themselves, not the taxpayers. I personally resent our money going to parochial schools. The more money going to other the schools the less there is to improve public schools. We have 4 grandkids, two of whom will hopefully be going to college in the next couple years. I'd be really happy for them if they didn't have to graduate from college with huge student loans to pay back. However I'd like to see tuition money go for trade schools more than 4 year degrees. Not everyone needs a BA or BS degree, and I agree that they should have some sense of accomplishment by paying part of their own way.
"So I'm guessing that with all the people that believe in climate change due to man that no one on here has a electric or hybrid car or solar panels or wind mills! Heck even I have geo thermal heat and air conditioning. I guess the concern isn't that great."
Good for you :-) It's a matter of economics for some of us, also a part of where we live. We downsized our living space when the kids left home and made sure it was well insulated. Hybrid cars and solar panels are out of our price range at present and windmills not allowed in town. 30 years ago I owned a Dodge Colt 3 speed that got 40 mpg on the highway, never have had one that got that since, and if there are any now we can't afford a new car in any case.
Cheers,
Pam
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Post by bobbrennan1 on Sept 22, 2016 5:30:13 GMT -6
I get that and agree but when I hear people talk like gore and others you would think the world will be on fire if WE don't do what they say immediately and I guess add Obama and company with gore as the great alarmists. I also would agree that there far to many that far to many have a degree in b.s.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 22, 2016 6:50:42 GMT -6
you think nothing has been done.
but it has
we just need to do more.
You think that on a day way back in the early 1900s- that everyone up and sold their horses cause cars were out there? It that everyone sold their pickups and high gas volume cars, the day nigh mileage cars were available?
or do you think it was a transition?
your view seems to be that since everyone isn't using solar panels and elec cars- why then, climate change must not be real
and yes, the world IS on fire so to speak- and the longer we delay in moving to better systems, the worse it will get.
Your view (TCs on this I take as a given)seems to be- lets wait till things are REALLY, REALLY bad- then, lets do something.
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Post by redsnow on Sept 22, 2016 14:41:35 GMT -6
I know a guy that had solar panels installed on the roof of his commercial poultry houses. Don't quote me on the size, but the 2 banks of panels are about 25' by 50' each. The total cost to install was around 60K, but he got some kind of "grant" money. Kind of experimental type of deal, his cost was someplace around 25K.
The solar panels are only putting out about 1/2 of what he expected. And then the power company cut the rate they had been paying, so now he's looking at about 1/3 of what he had figured.
The short days of winter, the panels won't generate much power at all.
I've read about the big solar farms out west, the panels get covered with dust, and only generate 1/4 or less than what was estimated.
Overall, if he'd known how long it would take for him to actually "break even", I doubt he'd try solar again. He's looking at about 20 years, to get his $25,000 back. Without the grant money, we'd never see it break even in our lifetime.
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Post by bobbrennan1 on Sept 25, 2016 16:46:01 GMT -6
I just think it's great that we subsidise things like that but then every one says the government does it! I don't mean any offense red snow every one says it.
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Post by redsnow on Sept 25, 2016 19:01:09 GMT -6
It's good that we experiment, that's the only way that we'll ever know. But solar power won't supply our energy needs, my opinion anyway. And wind power isn't much better.
Just my opinion, we need to fire up a few more nuclear power plants.
What are we going to do about vehicles? Darned if I know! But electric cars won't cut it today!
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Post by trappnman on Sept 26, 2016 8:06:40 GMT -6
and gas cars didn't cut it 125 years ago- but it started with 1 car, then 2, then 10, then...............
anyone alive in 20 years or more, will, IMO, see more elec on the road than gas
we need to look to the future, not the past
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 27, 2016 16:31:29 GMT -6
Tman nope because then everyone will wonder what do we do with the millions of dead car cells that are in electric cars? Some of it can be reused but not all of it.
Kind of like fluorescent bulbs they where going to save us a ton of energy nationwide, until they found out that those bulbs in the landfills cause as much or more damage than the lower we where use is standard light bulbs. Took awhile but we now have LED which seems to be better but the price of bulbs sure have went up.
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