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Post by trappincoyotes39 on May 13, 2014 18:02:26 GMT -6
FWS I don' think you relies how many lbs of catfish one can take on a trot line inside the rules and regs of the law that would feed a family of 5 easy enough, that is just one species of fish. Daily harvest for main food needs could be handled by people who choose to do such easy enough on freshwater species. I know anyone would get sick of eating just fish 365 days a year for a few years straight
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on May 13, 2014 18:33:39 GMT -6
Tell me about it Randy.
I have gotten to the point where I almost couldnt eat it before. 3 days a week for a month was enough for me.
I've got some halibut and rockfish in the freezer yet. Meh. Its okay, but I dont believe its any better than a walleye or a perch.
Tuna? That stuff in a can is almost unpalatable and the expensive steaks they sell in the grocery arent a heck ofa lot better IMHO and I wouldnt walk across the street to eat salmon. But hey its all what a feller likes and if I was relying on it for my protein I'd choke it down.
I'd rather go to a lake around here and harvest some real wild rice, not the cultivated stuff and have perch and rice on the side. All the protein one would ever need.
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Post by FWS on May 13, 2014 18:51:52 GMT -6
Right, you'd have to supplement with other sources of animal protein. Those are white muscled sedentary fish, you need fish with higher oil contents to get the best nutrition over the long term. Especially if you're going to subsist on it. The supply is pretty much already being produced it just goes to other markets, such as the China, Japan, Korea, the EU, etc. U.S. boats already fish all over the Pacific in multiple fisheries and produce huge amounts of the pelagics that offload in Samoa or other countries. So yeah, it could be done, as it is in other countries. Except that the supply to some of those countries would be diverted. Along with a lot of coastline and bays that could be hugely productive in aquaculture. And then there are whales with all that nice red meat.................. And you'd live damn well too............... I love fish too, and shellfish, get a lot of variety and the quality is superb.
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Post by James on May 14, 2014 2:25:30 GMT -6
Whale is kind of strong and gamey, but you can get used to it, I expect. I didn't eat enough to get used to it.
Jim
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Post by trappnman on May 14, 2014 6:37:52 GMT -6
why eat fish for Omega 3?
walnuts provide the same, and readily available by the bushel full
in any case, we have lake trout and salmon and smelt which all have a high O3 content
but that's moot- no one lives 100% on fish or seafoods- all the native tribes supplemented their diet as you do as well
I think FWS, you might go back and reread your original point- that natives couldn't subsist as well here as by you-
we have gotten rather far afield
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on May 14, 2014 7:48:38 GMT -6
Well than if we are going to consider whales, which is a mammal, I'll eat beaver and muskrats.
On average I sell 2 to 3 tons of beaver to the mink ranch, with as high as 5 ton one year.
That would make a lot of hamburger.
Probably chuck a half ton rat carcasses a year as well.
Than it would be easy enough to supplement with a half ton of wild rice. Good stuff.
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Post by PamIsMe on May 15, 2014 2:31:06 GMT -6
How many beaver does it take to make 2-3 tons?
Just curious, Pam
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Post by FWS on May 19, 2014 12:04:52 GMT -6
Reality is that you boys only have a handful of species to eat and they are mostly white muscled sedentary fish and your ways of preparing them are most likely minimal at best. Yet another reason why saltwater species are preferable, there is much greater diversity available. Different tastes, textures, and hundreds upon hundreds of ways to prepare them. Which is about the limit to your experience with 'tuna', commercially canned and ahi in a supermarket............... Your opinion would change drastically if you were catching the various species of tunas and canning and smoking your own and eating it fresh or fresh frozen. Same with salmon, you're not getting the good stuff, like ocean caught chinooks. There's a reason fishermen get $7+/lb for whole fish. Well you'd have to since you can't stand to eat those freshwater fish. Why not ? And that is not the only health benefit. Only the lake trout is a native MN fish, your salmon and smelt are introduced anadromous fish. BTW, smelt taken in saltwater are better eating. The night smelt (nightfish) we get here are excellent.
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on May 19, 2014 15:25:24 GMT -6
WE have different tastes fws.
I've ate wild caught alaskan salmon, have had wild caught salmon from the NW. I'll eat it dont care for it.
Like I said, I have some alaskan halibut sent to me from a buddy who was up there. Its good but I dont htink its above a walleye or northern pike out of the cold water.
Smelt?
Once a year is enough for me.
Pam, a couple ton of beaver isnt a lot, now I am talking carcass here not bone off meat. They throw the whole thing in the grinder.
4000lbs probably 200 beaver plus or minus.
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Post by FWS on May 19, 2014 20:49:43 GMT -6
You only list the 2 species, you do realize there are hundreds of other marine species we catch and eat right ?
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Post by PamIsMe on May 19, 2014 23:05:09 GMT -6
Spread your halibut with mayonnaise, cover it with seasoned bread crumbs mixed with parmesan cheese and bake it. Or, just send it to me :-) After eating baked AK halibut and salmon the fresh water fish around here don't hold much appeal for me any more. Altho we've been eating walleyes and blue gills dipped in batter and deep fried because we have them in the freezer. Canned tuna (in oil not water) with mayo, onion, celery, and lemon juice is a favorite sandwich or snack with crackers at our house.
I've tried octopus and calamari but I'd starve to death if I had to eat it on a regular basis.
Cheers, Pam
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Post by trappnman on May 20, 2014 6:15:51 GMT -6
bottomline, fish are important to you in your diet- they mean zero to me
FWS- YOU continually list a couple species in Mn- you do understand, that there are close to 100 species fished for, and eaten on a daily bases here-
whether they are your taste, is irrelevant
the truth is- someone is just as capable here, in living off the land/water if they cared to do so, here as where you live
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Post by FWS on May 20, 2014 10:07:42 GMT -6
And they mean zero to your diet because you see it as a recreational pursuit, not producing for income or for food.
Actually I've only seen a small handful of species mentioned by you guys in this and previous threads where we've discussed fish.
You'd have to add 'land', since you'd have trouble doing it with aquatic species.
And even with terrestrial resources it would be tougher, much tougher, in MN than in CA, given that weather plays a significant role and there are many other resources your area either doesn't have or is very limited.
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Post by FWS on May 20, 2014 10:25:39 GMT -6
Pam, both species are great eating IF whoever is preparing them knows what they're doing and the squid and octopus were cared for correctly when caught. I get them live and preparing them from a live condition makes a huge difference in taste and texture. I caught a lot of octopus as bycatch and would save them for certain people, one was an old Japanese lady who would pickle them and give me jars of it, that was just fabulous eating. And a lot can be done with squid, of which there are many species, the Japanese make this dried, smoked product with rings cut from the tubes of pelagic flying squid that's as fine a snack as I've ever had, as is the spiced and dried shredded squid or cuttlefish i get from them. Really addictive and very healthy food.
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Post by trappnman on May 20, 2014 13:00:35 GMT -6
no one but you, ever stated that subsistence living must be from the water only-
as far as fish- walleyes, northerns, catfish, bullheads, sunfish, perch, bass, muskies, suckers, trout, salmon, eels, smelt, sauger, bluegills, sturgeon, lake trout and the list goes on-
And they mean zero to your diet because you see it as a recreational pursuit, not producing for income or for food.
I do- BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE EATING FISH
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Post by FWS on May 20, 2014 13:39:22 GMT -6
As I've said, mostly white muscled sedentary fish, your salmon and smelt are introduced from stocks that spend most of their life in the ocean and return to freshwater to spawn. They're better eating when ocean caught, especially salmon. Even the steelhead are better when they first enter the rivers from the oceans. Right, and it's because you have far less to choose from and they are not as good eating as saltwater fish. Personally I can't imagine not eating fish or other marine organisms as a dietary staple, I grew up with it, produced a lot in huge variety, and had the benefit of learning the different uses for all these species from multiple cultures that had fish and shellfish as dietary staples, which is pretty important when you think about it. Actually I just pointed out that it is much easier to do so on the coast than inland, greater species diversity, greater abundance, and you can produce something year round. Hence the reason why there are so many communities based on marine resources globally.
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Post by trappnman on May 20, 2014 14:03:26 GMT -6
and as is obvious, the same can be said of communitys along rivers and lakes
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Post by FWS on May 20, 2014 14:16:15 GMT -6
Not really.....................
Not like you'd find elsewhere in the world in freshwater systems.
And certainly not along the coasts.
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Post by trappnman on May 20, 2014 15:38:21 GMT -6
yes really- as I've pointed out multiple times about the cultures that flourished on the rivers/great lakes.
on a different note, what great ancient cultures, flourished even marginally on the oceans?
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Post by FWS on May 20, 2014 18:41:59 GMT -6
Oh ? Who, where, and on what exactly ?
A better question would be which didn't..................
As per successful cultures who flourished on the oceans we can start with the Greeks, on to the Romans, then the Vikings, the British, the French, the Belgians, the Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Polynesians, and the list can go on and on.
Even including those mariners who brought your ancestors across the Atlantic to the Americas.............
Many great fortunes were made on the oceans. And many still are.
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