taxing the rich

[PamIsMe]

"I saw bottom 50 of the workers paying next to nothing......"


The top 50% have 83% of the income, the bottom 50% have 17%........... the bottom 50% have adjusted gross incomes of less than $30,000..

Add on all the other taxes, property, sales, state income taxes, gas, etc. which group really pays the higher percentage of their income for total taxes?

Pam

[musher]

What do you think would be more equitable: A flat tax on income or a flat tax on everything purchased?

[trappnman]

Those loop holes are there for the majority of the politicians sitting in DC

that would make a good sound bite, unfortunately, looking at the history of our tax laws, shows that to be a non issue.

you really should use bing or google.

[trappnman]

ask yourself what is more fair- to have a flat tax on a loaf of bread vs a flat tax on income

[musher]

Mar 22, 2013 6:35:54 GMT -6 trappnman said:

ask yourself what is more fair- to have a flat tax on a loaf of bread vs a flat tax on income

Everyone would pay the same for bread. But they wouldn't for cars or housing or clothing ....

And if people bought fancy/expensive bread it wouldn't be the same either.

[bblwi]

The only way that the "great economy" of the early 2000's could sell a home was to allow zero down payment and ARM loans at interest only with no principal due for a designated period of time. That did two things tied up lots of money into houses people could not afford to keep our even fill or put curtins in and caused a huge surge to lease cars. How long do you think it will take for our economy to get better if the only way you can sell something is to not expect to get any of your capital back on the initial sale. Ever wonder why almost every auto ad today is about lease payments. Many citizens are not credit worthy for home or auto loans and or the banks are not making 6-7 year auto loans when they know the value of the auto will be less then the amount due on the loan in about 3 years.
It took us about 5 years to dig our hole and it is going to take a lot more than 5 to fill it, ditto with the government as well.

One of the main reasons the GOP is working so hard now on Hispanic voters is that they are younger and are much more inclind to pay in cash and a long way from SS and Medicare. The elderly in this nation typically are more conservative, especially the Greatest generation but as a party you can't advocate the demise of SS and Medicare and keep them voting for you. It will be interesting to see if they GOP can garner up 30-40 million young voters before the over 75 year olds die off. If they keep advocating war and world policing along with pushing conservative social values instead of real reform of government and corporate access and subsidies they won't get far very fast in my opinion.

Bryce

[mostinterestingmanintheworld]

What will be interesting is how anybody is going to get the social programs paid for.

[bblwi]

I actually think paying for them is not as difficult as we assume it to be. We just need to figure out the process to get that done. Not many in our nation want to put money in the bank for a decade at 1% because it may be more important to have money later than whatever you bought with the funds today.

Bryce

[mostinterestingmanintheworld]

"We just need to figure out the process to get that done."

Well good luck.

[trappincoyotes39]

Consumer taxes are already in place in many areas, some states food is tax free in others not so. Tons of consumer taxes at state and local levels. Some states have personnel property taxes others do not. Many ways to skin a cat each state decides how best to do that. Kansas is looking at getting rid of any state income tax, I'm thinking they will get this done. They want to attract people and business.

The fed govt needs to spend what is brought in and nothing more, the incentive is to create jobs and a better economy to bring in more revenue if needed. A simple tax plan without all the deductions and an end to the IRS dept all together. What comes out of your paycheck is what they get no end of year filing.

[bblwi]

Well if states want to eliminate taxes so they can attract people and businesses and we ask the feds to lower taxes, where is the money going to come from to build the infrastructure to accommodate the influx of people? If you are going to attract people and businesses because you are willing to allow substandard infrastructure or no infrastructure then you are actually advocating a large turnover aspect of people as they move from one region that provides diminishing services to the next and the next. We will be advocating a nomadic culture much like we see in the 10-15 million undocumented workers as they move from job to job our out of the country whichever works best for them. It seems we are advocating or taxing for less security, not more and less education as we are advocating for strictly job training and not educating youth to be better and m ore informed citizens. We are advocating through fiscal policy a dumbing down of our culture. For those of you that own and manage businesses to me that will be even a worse scenario than what we currently have. Partially trained workers with limited critical thinking skills that are willing to move quickly to the next lowest cost center as jobs offer little opportunity for advancement will not create long term economic growth as we will have the masses in the work force revolving around low wages with low expectations and little reason to be committed to a firm, a community or our society. Personal independence is a great thing but it comes with societal costs.

Bryce

[trappincoyotes39]

Bryce it isn't tax free there are other means of taxation that will benefit Kansas. It refers to state income tax being done away with. The Feds should spend what we bring in, simple many states are held by their state constitution to have a balanced budget. Why can't our fed govt run the same way?

[trappnman]

TC- shouldn't each state, get no more than they pay into federal coffers?

and if not, why not?

[bblwi]

So tell me how you build public infrastructure without taxation, I don't care where it comes from you need funds to build public infrastructure unless you are a state like Steve references where you get double on the money you pay into the feds and they send you large sums of other citizens money from other states for you to build stuff with. Free loaders come in many forms, some are individuals, some are cities, some are companies and some are states.

Bryce

[PamIsMe]

"What do you think would be more equitable: A flat tax on income or a flat tax on everything purchased? "

Actually I don't think a flat tax of any kind is equitable. Either way, those that have the least, lose. For example: "..it isn't tax free there are other means of taxation that will benefit Kansas." No doubt, all the "fees" which are really just another form of taxes will go up.

"One of the main reasons the GOP is working so hard now on Hispanic voters is that they are younger and are much more inclind to pay in cash and a long way from SS and Medicare."

As usual Bryce has hit it on the head. The light bulb has finally gone on with the Repubs. They can't win without their support. There will be a path to citizenship one day and the Repubs will be the first to try and take credit for it. I hope
those affected will have long enough memories so that they will stick with the party that really started the ball rolling for them.

I will never understand what logic there is in cutting taxes (the only really form of gov't revenue on a state or national level) and expecting that to create jobs and help the economy. How can a budget be "balanced" with no income?

Cheers,
Pam

[thorsmightyhammer]

A flat tax on everybody would be equitable and fair.

Get rid of all the bogus deductions and tax all income the same.

We should have a national sales tax as well.

We should also cut spending by about 20 percent.

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman I have no problem with states getting from the Feds what portion, they pay in. The problem being many AG states take in far more in fed subsidies than other states with less AG. So each congressional person will fight for their state. You see the fed govt has put many restrictions into states and then decide to under fund them, that isn't fiair either. Either fund them programs or get rid of them. It cost many states large sums of money because of these actions.

How about we take the fed gas tax away and allow the states to keep half of what the Feds take in and it says in the states where consumed?

[mattduncan]

I've been involved in municipal politics now for 3 years and after 3 budgets that I've been involved in and the community feedback I've got I've come to realize the general public has no idea how the things they take for granted are funded and the fact that taxes must be raised to meet with the increasing wants and needs of the population today , it seems no one wants to pay more in taxes but always want more in government services , Ontario is in a very bad financial position much like I see you guys south of the border in and it came from piss poor management of the publics money here in ontario , it gets very old to see some of the money pissed down the drain that could go to funding needed infrastructure projects , until the general population starts to care how their money is spent and start to hold the politicians in charge accountable , nothing will change

[PamIsMe]

"The problem being many AG states take in far more in fed subsidies than other states with less AG."

Do you have a source for that statement?
From what I can tell from this link, which shows how much each state contributed to the Feds and how much they got back, it simply isn't true.

www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/08/americas-fiscal-union

Here’s a list of the top 10 states that got the most back in terms of federal benefits, followed by the bottom 10.

Top Ten (Source: Tax Foundation):
1. New Mexico- Indian reservations, military bases, federal research labs, farm subsidies, retirement programs
2. Mississippi- Farm subsidies, military spending, nutrition and anti-poverty aid, retirement programs.
3. Alaska - Per capita No 1 recipient of federal benefits; infrastructure projects, DOT and pork projects. (I wonder why they left off military spending?)
4. Louisiana- Disaster relief, farm subsidies, anti-poverty and nutrition aid, military spending.
5. W. Virginia -Farm subsidies, anti-poverty and nutrition aid.
6. N. Dakota Farm subsidies, energy subsidies, retirement and anti-poverty programs, Indian reservations.
7. Alabama -Retirement programs, anti-poverty and nutrition aid, federal space/military spending, farm subsidies.
8. S. Dakota- Retirement programs, nutrition aid, farm subsidies, military spending, Indian reservations.
9. Virginia- Civil service pensions, military spending, veterans benefits, retirement, anti-poverty aid.
10. Kentucky- Retirement programs, nutritional and anti-poverty aid, farm subsidies.

Now consider the bottom 10, i.e., the ones that give more to the federal government in taxes than they get in return.
From 1 to 10, they are:
New Jersey, Nevada, Connecticut, New Hampshire, Minnesota, Illinois, Delaware, California, New York, Colorado.


"SOME American states receive more in federal spending than they pay in federal taxes; others receive less. Over twenty years these fiscal transfers can add up to a sizeable sum. From 1990 to 2009, the federal government spent $1.44 trillion in Virginia but collected less than $850 billion in taxes, a gap of over $590 billion. But relative to the size of its economy, Virginia derived a smaller benefit from America's fiscal union than states like New Mexico, Mississippi and West Virginia, where the 20-year transfer exceeded 200% of their annual GDP."

And this link which shows how much of each state's budget comes from the Feds:
taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2012/12/how-much.html

How Much of Each State's Budget Comes From the Feds: From 24% (Alaska) to 49% (Mississippi)

The Tax Foundation map below looks at "how much of each state's budget comes from the federal government. Mississippi tops the list with 49% of its general revenue coming from Washington; Alaska, by contrast, gets only 24% of its general revenue from the feds."

Cheers
Pam

[bblwi]

It is Interesting that most of the 10 states that receive less from the Feds than they pay in vote Democratic and many of the states that receive large sums per ca pita and or % of budget vote GOP. Sort off like the "offended" teenager that chest thumps about being their own and mature that just can't get weaned or survive without needing assistance and help. Maybe that is why many are so angry they are dreaming one thing and living another.

Bryce