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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Dec 22, 2012 10:31:15 GMT -6
My point exactly. Once again what did you expect them to offer?
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Post by bblwi on Dec 22, 2012 12:46:14 GMT -6
Joel you are just looking at the issue from a banning point of view and not other measures other than banning or limiting ammo etc. which are probably not workable anyway so why waste political capital and time whining about bans and threats when that is not going to happen anyway.
The same people that support the ability to sell a firearm to anyone any time without background checks at gun shows yet want everyone pre registered to vote and with an ID and proof of residence is part of the problem. Why is the selling of a weapon to be more an act of freedom than voting. Or is the real issue that once all voters are registered we can start limiting opportunities? If that is the underlying case I can see why the really paranoid actions of avid gun owners is out there because their own motives in other areas may be to limit freedom. Fear is created by those who try to reduce others freedoms. To me there is considerable discussion regarding violence and solutions to include discussion about firearm ownership, registration etc. and how procedures can be changed. I think that hinting that schools make themselves targets because they announce they are firearm free is really a sad testimony of the NRA stating that they feel the only way to safety in the USA is to have armed guards all over the nation. What they did not state was who were those armed guards? Are they public employees which they feel are not good for America or military or vigilante or mercenaries that are paid for through private companies and who does the back grounding and training for these persons. It will be like going to Mexico with the armed federal police, local police and the military all around and yet a huge number of murders and you don't always know who is murdering who and for what reasons.
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 22, 2012 13:39:24 GMT -6
Bryce the only way a sale at a firearm show can go without a back ground check is private to private only. It has been that way for many,many years. The reason being unless everyone is going to get some sort of number to track these sales and a lot more operators manning the phones at NICS , it will be tough and costly. Not to say it couldn't be done but that is putting a lot on a private sale for a firearm. Who is to blame if things go wrong? Who is to have the responsibility for the sale? How does a private sale of a gun or two protect against straw purchases? Many questions to go through when talking non FFL sales between 2 private people and where the buck stops.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 22, 2012 13:46:35 GMT -6
I sold a lot of guns for a major retailer and had training on how to spot and what to ask to find straw purchases . I also had the lowest correction rate for this retailer including the so called GM of this store. I found his mistakes even though I was not in a position to do so LOL. When filling out 4473's you need to know the laws and how to do them correctly as the ATF will do audits and they don't like to find too many or the wrong mistakes or they can/will pull your license for a period of time or worse.
To try and make the private Joe get used to these laws and information for selling a few guns in their lifetime? There are multiple sales military, standard and others that can get very complicated and one needs to know what is the proper identification to proceed with the sale within the confines of the ATF.
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Post by bblwi on Dec 22, 2012 15:00:15 GMT -6
Yes I know it is private to private and it constitutes a lot of weapons sold in the USA annually. We have dozens of gun shows in WI every year. I went to a couple looking to find out some values on some weapons I inherited and owned. I saw lots of weapons leave that place for cash and the conversations were of the type I did not want to be part of.
Bryce
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Dec 22, 2012 20:40:34 GMT -6
Bryce I'm one of those guys that thinks stricter voting regulations make a lot of sense and stricter gun control laws make no sense.
I have no intention of ever filling out any paper work on person to person sales in my lifetime.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 23, 2012 8:15:48 GMT -6
The same people that support the ability to sell a firearm to anyone any time without background checks at gun shows yet want everyone pre registered to vote and with an ID and proof of residence is part of the problem
ain;t that the truth!
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 24, 2012 20:20:16 GMT -6
Tman you can only do private to private sales at guns shows legally. No different than having a sale take place at your home except you have more buyers that will walk in front of you at a gun show. Law breakers will be law breakers but the point is why make all suffer because some break the law. If a city writes too many speeding tickets should all pay for those that speed?
Bryce the ATF has gotten a lot more aggressive at "planting" people at gun shows for the very thing you speak of. No gun sales is worth federal prison time for me. Any private sale gun I have ever sold get's me a copy of their DL, a signed paper and a bill of sale kept in my safe with date and time of such private sale.
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Post by bblwi on Dec 24, 2012 21:34:53 GMT -6
Telling, suggesting and demanding others what they should or should not do while you refuse to set at the table where the discussions may well take place is the voice of one that needs to bully others as they won't take action or responsibility on their own. The speech by the NRA was a classic example of the Liberal whining that many conservatives dislike and yet in this case this is looked upon as strength and standing on your own. I don't like to see our bill of rights jeopardized by the uncompromising attitudes of those who feel they are blameless in the course our society has taken over the last 235 years.
Bryce
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Dec 25, 2012 3:43:11 GMT -6
Problem with sitting at the table with someone that has no skin in the game means you're the predetermined loser.
I've been down that road a lot recently. I've told everyone I deal with that from now on when anybody comes to me asking for a compromise on trapping I'm going to ask for something back.
For the past 6 years I've worked with setbacks in extreme high use trail areas etc. It's gotten to the point that every time somebody catches a dog or doesn't check their traps we've got to change a law.
I'm living the dream people and it's the same concept with your guns. Being reasonable gets you nowhere except one more step to the next regulation.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Dec 25, 2012 8:16:34 GMT -6
They also offered the idea not to punish the rest of us for something we didn't do.
With ideas that do very little if anything to do with preventing another incident.
I would have preffered that La Pierre would have just said this thing isn't the fault of legitimate gun owners, if you want solutions look elsewhere besides the backs of law abiding citizens.
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Post by bblwi on Dec 25, 2012 9:00:03 GMT -6
Yes Joel that is what I was saying in my first post. He just rambled on finding fault with everyone but him or the NRA. The boomarang will find its way back when you chastise others and feel you have no responsibility of your own. They should start lobbying liberal Dem's now that they have taken that path.
Bryce
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