Study: Mountain Lions In NV Migrating To CA

[FWS]

Study: Mountain lions in Nev. migrating to Calif.

The Associated
October 6, 2012

RENO, Nev.—Many mountain lions in Nevada are migrating westward to take up residence in California, according to a seven-year study.

The findings ran counter to the expectations of researchers, who thought the cougars would have moved eastward from California to Nevada, the Reno Gazette-Journal reported (http://on.rgj.com/QQpvNk ).

Because lions are hunted in Nevada but not in California, biologists thought more of the territorial predators would migrate east into habitat in Nevada made available when lions were killed by hunters.

"We predicted we would have more lions coming in from California. We were surprised the Sierra itself was a net importer," said Jon Beckmann of the Wildlife Conservation Society.

Researchers theorize the animals could be drawn to California because the Sierra offers lusher habitat with a greater selection of prey than Nevada's arid mountains.

"It may just be more attractive to move into the Sierra Nevada," said Alyson Andreasen, a University of Nevada, Reno, doctoral student and a lead researcher in the study. "It's just conjecture at this point, but that's what we think might be going on."

California is home to an estimated 4,000 to 6,000 cougars compared to Nevada's 3,000.

The study, jointly conducted by UNR, the Wildlife Conservation Society and the Nevada Department of Wildlife, used genetics to identify distinct populations of mountain lions in both states.

The findings were recently published in the online edition of Molecular Ecology.

Among the goals was to determine which areas animals move to at a greater rate than those that leave, and places from which animals disperse to other locations at a greater rate.

Lion population structures and history were determined by analyzing DNA from tissue samples taken from 739 lions in both states.

Scientists were able to trace lion movements over multiple generations, saying such information is particularly useful when it comes to managing cougar populations.

[mostinterestingmanintheworld]

Beckman is an anti. I won't talk about the others.

[trappincoyotes39]

They move there because it is a sanctuary for those cats LOL. Cali doesn't have a lion season, just another poor wildlife management choice made by that state, with one of many so called " props" imposed............ Dumb really is...................

[thorsmightyhammer]

The initiative and reform ballots are basically a product in red states TC why is that?

[FWS]

The initiative and reform ballots are basically a product in red states TC why is that?

That's a bit convoluted Steven, explain your thoughts a bit more.

just another poor wildlife management choice made by that state, with one of many so called " props" imposed............ Dumb really is..................

CA isn't alone in this in regards to ballot measures on hunting/trapping/fishing.................

Or in legislation.......................

[thorsmightyhammer]

What I meant FWS is how come most of the states that have intitiatie and referendums and use them alot are red states.

I wonder why that is?

[FWS]

Well you're not really correct in that since a lot of what are now 'Blue States' allow for I&R, and many that are currently 'Red States' do not allow for I&R.

Interesting histories of how that came to be, click the link below and theres a drop down list that'll give the status and history of I&R for each state.

The colors on the map don't correlate with the 'red state/blue state' electoral vote thing BTW, just the colors they picked for the graphic.

Initiative & Referendum Institute

[trappincoyotes39]

CA and other liberial states have far more of it take place than do other states. The reason is they have the voters in these areas to get it passed, in areas of more conservative thought you wouldn't get the votes needed to pass many on hunting,fishing and trapping.

Of the 8 states where legholds are illegal 2 are red states and the others all blue. The 2 red states have a large portion of their voting in more liberial parts of their states the "burbs".

I see more carzy game and fish laws in states with a liberial population for sure. One would think they could use some common sense but it is lost at times.

I remember when the Cali anti group came to SD to protest the mt lion hunt LOL, they got hammered by the Biologist and the judge didn't take long to rule. After that they didn't seem to want to come back to SD for any further follow up on trying to stop the mt lion season LOL.

I think they knew they where wasting their time and money with people that had excellent data for justification and the judge knew it too!

[FWS]

The reason is they have the voters in these areas to get it passed, in areas of more conservative thought you wouldn't get the votes needed to pass many on hunting,fishing and trapping.

Actually it's more urban vs rural than liberal vs conservative.

We win in rural counties and lose in urban counties, pretty much regardless of the majority party affiliation in the county.

I see more carzy game and fish laws in states with a liberial population for sure.

More like states with large urban/suburban areas.

But you've never actually fought any of this, have never had to lobby to produce votes, get support from groups or individuals outside the issue, and have stated that you'd rather run away than fight anyways.

So what would you really know..................................

[trappincoyotes39]

Nope never been a lobbyist I do my thing to help in other means like try to educate those that might vote on such things, that I have done. I have found that goes further than does trying to sway votes from poloticians with "special agendas" and back door deal cutting on issues.

I also live in states where one doesn't have to worry too much about silly things like that comming to bear fruit in the first place. The rest all get's taken care of in time, bad decisions always seem to come to the top! Ask those in Mass if they had it to do over if they might have second thoughts about making traps illegal...............

You can be the lobby type and I will be the education type, that promotes trapping and hunting as sound control methods to be used to keep specie populations in check and promote it as a means to help more people than the antis measures ever will.

Why would I live in a state that I keep banging my head against the same wall expecting a different outcome? You have Protectionst, Preservationist and conservationst. Sadly in some states you have far too many protectionist, that is when the trouble starts...................

[mostinterestingmanintheworld]

Education works with regulatory agencies sometimes, rarely with legislative bodies. The system was set up for legislative bodies to take the temperature of the populace and make laws accordingly. They aren't expected too be experts in issues, they are expected too be experts on getting votes. Why so many people fight that I don't know.

The regulatory agencies are expected to implement the desire of the legislature,which is basically the will of the people (who show up and are most persuasive).

So educating politicians its really kind of an exercise in my opinion. They are far more interested in how many friends you have as opposed to the enemies.

[FWS]

Nope never been a lobbyist I do my thing to help in other means like try to educate those that might vote on such things, that I have done.

Well I've done both, and I'll tell you something, you can't reach enough people to make a difference if all you do is talk to the average citizens.

I targeted those who could influence the policy makers, I tried to make our issues relevant to them and their interests and that did help quite a bit on legislation.

You can be the lobby type and I will be the education type,

You're too long winded to do either effectively, your arguments are convoluted and often contradictory.

Why would I live in a state that I keep banging my head against the same wall expecting a different outcome?

Why would I live in states that have far fewer opportunities than I currently have ? My interests are pretty broad, far broader than just trapping, I like year round outdoor opportunity and I have that here. Both recreational and commercial.

FYI, Missouri is on HSUS's list of targets for ballot measures and the majority of the population lives in urban/suburban areas.

They already put measures on the ballot to ban cockfighting and regulate dog breeding, both of which passed. You really don't want to find out if MO voters will reject a ballot measure on trapping.

Ask those in Mass if they had it to do over if they might have second thoughts about making traps illegal...............

Yet the law hasn't been overturned and if it's put before the voters they may well vote to keep the restrictions.

How would our side fund such an attempt ? And funding is the issue, it would take several million $$$'s to make a good run at it in Mass. and I don't see that coming from anywhere. Trappers sure as Hell won't come up with it.

[FWS]

So educating politicians its really kind of an exercise in my opinion. They are far more interested in how many friends you have as opposed to the enemies.

Hence my approach Joel, educating other groups and individuals who can and do influence policy makers is usually pretty effective.

[mostinterestingmanintheworld]

Yeah, it's about who you know and how influential they are. I took a lobbying school in Vegas a couple of weeks ago. The instructor said more laws are made at the fish fry than in the halls of the legislature. I've had excellent luck with affinity groups and their spheres of influence. It is amazing who will get in bed with who, politically,and why.

[trappincoyotes39]

cock fighting had their own laws for the most part years ago, 47 states have banned such.

You must also remember many of those in KC and St Louis are hunters them selves. So not all urban pops are the same in each state FWS. Try getting hunting ground within and hr of each of these 2 cities, your going to pay through the nose and why? The urban hunters, there are a lot of them in the state of MO.

MO is home to 500,000 deer hunters, the state game agency sold 1.28 million deer permits last year, they aren't all country folk.

CA sold a 175,000 deer tags and has 6x's the population of MO. So you see HS can try to come to certain states and spen their money but the odds of them doing much when many of the people the voting public or those in state legislative control in many states are either hunters themselves or those they represent are!

Tag sales mean something and when you have 10% of a total population involved in hunting and over 1 million tags sold that speaks something to people "involved".

South Dakota is the same way hunting is big and directly involved with AG and ag producers have alot of power at the state level this I know for a fact!

I have no problems with educating the "future" voters on hunting and trapping issues, there are people involved NOW at levels that I find less interest in like lobbying, I am about educating for the future about trapping and hunting that is where I am at.

Trappers are getting older every year and it is short sided in my opinion to worry about the now in alot of cases, I want trapping sustained for the longer term future and that is where I have concintraited my efforts. I find that mor rewarding than dealing with the poloticnas of today.

I have served in the past on a school board and also 5 years on a city council 2 times elected and beat my opponant's by large margins so some people muct think I knew what I was doing LOL. I also served as the President for a few years and was in such position when I moved. Our state municipality group had some great lobbyist and I have talked with them on many occasions, just not my cup of tea knowing what I know.

So you don't have the lock on public service FWS.

[mostinterestingmanintheworld]

The problem with ignoring politics is that they can take away decades of work in about three meetings.

I ask the guys around here that do wonderful work building guzzlers and other range and wildlife projects what is the point of it if they shut down hunting?

What good would hunting be if they outlawed guns? The point is that the fundamentals have to have attention paid or all the other stuff is for naught.

[trappincoyotes39]

I understand that for sure, but that is not my deal, others want to do that kind of stuff and have a knack for it. I guess I'm lucky or should I say choose states that are trapping/hunter friendly to live in. Others have that same luxury and some because of other interest have to fight harder to maintain what they have.

I applaud those that do the work with the poloticans as well as education is also needed, because if you have a voter referendum those people need to be educated as well. Cover as many bases as one can leave one or the other out and things could get worse. Also what state your in and the power of the outdoorsmen have in the realm of polotics, but also the future I feel anyone you can spend time with and edcuate them they are now a friend and not a foe of trapping and hunting.

I have gotten pastors involved in trapping, young kids girls and boy's, young adults and middle aged ranchers involved as well. I figure even if they never set a trap or shoot a critter at least my time was a positive experiance with them, they will remember it for sure.

I also had a BIG push on the trapping portion in the HUNT safe program, many instructors passed on by that "section" I promoted the trapping portion and wanted more of the trapping content covered in hunt safe by ALL instructors in the state or to find a trapper to do it for them. I took my local hunt safe from about zero time spent on trapping to 3 hrs of total trapping. Class room and in the field work. While half where shooting the other half where learning and setting traps and then we switched groups.

[mostinterestingmanintheworld]

That's all good,I'm not criticizing. Just saying they have one vote, a legislator votes for tens of thousands.

[FWS]

I took a lobbying school in Vegas a couple of weeks ago. The instructor said more laws are made at the fish fry than in the halls of the legislature.

Joel, I prefer the 'fish fry' to the halls of the legislature, I've accomplished more by networking the 'back rooms' than in testifying in a committee hearing, which you need to do but the bill isn't won there. And those are stories we never put into print and rarely talk about.

TC, your rationale on MO is wishful thinking and you will be in a similar position of having to fight for it in years to come. The fact that HSUS has used the ballot there is evidence of that, and don't hold your hopes on agriculture coming to the rescue, they can help but they'll have their own fights and the cash won't flow to the trappers. Same with hunting groups, the cash to fight ballot measures is short in coming from those sources.

We could have won most of the ballot fights but the necessary resources were not available.

Trappers are getting older every year and it is short sided in my opinion to worry about the now in alot of cases, I want trapping sustained for the longer term future and that is where I have concintraited my efforts.

And I KNOW it's very shortsighted for trappers to put themselves in an ideological box like most do.

I understand that for sure, but that is not my deal, others want to do that kind of stuff and have a knack for it.

It's obvious that it's 'not your deal' but that doesn't stop you from telling those who have the experience you lack how it's "really done" though does it ?



I've never enjoyed having to fight for it, but I do because I value it.

And I'll agree that education is key, but not so much in the way you think it is. The education of those who have the drive and desire to deal with our issues in real forums, like the 'fish fry' or the halls of a legislature is far more important.

Trouble is that trappers and trappers orgs. can't really teach that, the individual has to seek that knowledge on their own. And it takes a Hell of a lot of research, reading, and listening to start building that base of knowledge.

[trappincoyotes39]

So tell ME and others exactly what YOU have won back in California PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell me and others how you brought trapping back to the state, how you have gotten silly game laws changed in YOUR state, how YOU have brought REAL change back with your FISH FRY's PLEASE.

I would hope your knowledge and experiance has you as a PAID Lobbyist then correct?

Your a jack of all trades and master of NONE!!!!!

ENOUGH SAID>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

YOU keep making the BIG changes out in California and I will watch the news for YOUR change ;D