Loving those coon daggers!

[Steve Gappa]

I posted once, that I didn't need shock springs on my coyote traps, and was taken to task for it by being asked if I didn't use them, how would I know I didn't need them?

my reply was this-

What advantage do shock springs give you?

they help prevent losses and major foot damage, on long chained traps from lunging coyotes.

I didn't have that problem with short chained traps.

ergo, I didn't need a solution, to a problem I never had.

----------------------------------------------------

I have one beef with dp trap in general- and that's I don't think they are as high a % coon trap (% of coon that sees/smells it that are work the set) as a pocket or pipe in right location, but that's my opinion and I know for a fact many guys here will disagree with me, and that's the way it will have to be-

I just prefer footholds.

but when I do use them, I find no problems with having pull triggers only, no problems with "bait" being gone.

I read where 40-50 dinks were released, and another said similar-maybe that's why you need a push trigger- that the dinks, are cleaning out the traps or avoiding the pull.

those commenting that a push works fine- are dealing with big coon- where 15lbs is considered a dink. same coon I have.

I don't use the dps as workhorses- I use them to take coon in farmers yards- I personally see no need for a push trigger, for what I use them on, and the coon I'm targeting.

not knocking the push/pull- but for me its just another shock spring

[Wright Brothers]

So much for don't post about it if you have not done it. You guys ever tried em? Oh that's different.

You guys win, Uncle, push/pull not needed, no experience needed. Just theories and opinion and dealer discount.

No wonder no one posts any more. Want some "therories" on that?

Delete THAT.

Yeah, I'm beat lol, join that club.

They all work, so many tools, so little time.

[motrapperjohn]

Dps was hardly heard of before the Griz trap and it happened to pretty well get the job done much better than all the other dps that have been on the market several years earlier, some for 20 + earlier. I know of several that was push triggers Bandit buster, Coon Cuffs, One that I found while doing patent searches I cant remenber the name and dont even think it was marketed. The Duffers Im not sure, I think the Egg trap was a pull. Anyone else?
Musti, on that slide wire set up, if I staked my dagger where your upper trap was at it would be legal according to the Wisc. regs, if I put it on that slider it would be Illegal. Is that not a bunch of BS or what. Probly who ever was pushing to get that law passed never used any thing but a Griz trap and didnt even Know anything other than that trap excisted, Just like a lot other laws that get passed.

[bblwi]

The discussions concerning even allowing the use of the pull type triggers occur ed prior to the marketing of the push-pull trigger traps or additions were available. That may mean that there could be some time before the wording gets changed if it does.

Again I was not trying to create an argument as I was referencing the way we need to operate here. I am looking for traps that I can set in lowland trails that are typically dry or have 1-3 inches of water in them after a rain. We can't set those during the first 2 weeks here in WI or if it rains say 2 inches like it does sometimes you would not have several dry land taps that are now illegal.
I can see that a push pull trigger would increase the success rate it is just another factor that increases the likelihood of firing the trap. I am not going to enter into the discussion about cats, rats, etc. that can get caught in these traps as that why I was asking the question. We can work on changing regs but it while on the books that is what we work with.

Bryce

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman could otter be caight I suppose some could? They are a longer front foot than a rat or mink. Bait selection could limit even further, it isn't a number one could quantify as being anything substanial by any means. Anyone here ever caught 1 otter in a DP? Or more than one?

They are dog proof with push or pull due to the tube size it would take the smallest of dog breeds to get a foot down in that tube, again on the minute side of things for numbers caught.

You have caught rats at tube sets, I'm sure you have the foot hold is far less species specific than the Dagger for sure. By saying you catch rats at pipe sets has no bearing on the Dagger with push pull triggerswhat so ever. Give me 100 1.5 coils and 100 daggers in rat country and I would be the bank the 1.5's will out produce the daggers 1000/1.

The dagger is a coon trap made for them specifically, noit for rats, minks or otters. No trap is 100% proof and I would put the daggers up there with any of them on non targets issues and rates of take. The tube length is far more important than the push trigger on anything but coons.

They shine on coons because one doesn't have to worry about a pull up motion, the first down stroke to the bottom of the tube with the trigger design makes them far superior for the intended species. They can not get the bait out period from under the trigger without setting it off any movement up or down and there they sit. Offering the COON trapper more efficantcy bar none.

Also instead of holding against a concave surface they are holding aginst 2 sides providing ample holdinh power as well. If I bought more Dukes or any other I would still have to put the push/pulls on them for maximum efficantcy and still loose some of the holding power due to the round design, how much? Who knows but it didn't take me long to see the benefits of this trap! Use them or not coukld care less but they will add to a coon take for any COON trapper for sure.

[thebeav2]

Come on guys the girzz took millions of coon and It had just a pull type trigger. I would say that trap and It's trigger arrangement was pretty efficient.

I have talked to a few guys that use the push pull type trigger arrangements and I was told by all of them that even these traps get cleaned. So the push pull trigger Isn't bullet proof. And If Carlis Is truth full about his product he will even tell you It's not going to catch every coon that sticks It's foot In that trap.

so I haven't used the push pull trigger so what. When I run 100 dps and my catch per day Is 70% I don't see where changing to push pull triggers Is going to get me to 90% or more. Sometimes It's how you use them that makes the difference. Not the trigger arrangement of the trap. There's 100s of guys out there that you could give them a 100 daggers and they would fail to catch coon In them. IT"S NOT THE TRAP IT"S THE TRAPPER>

The dagger Is a well built trap but I'm doing very well with my Dukes and the price Is right. And for the few more coon I might catch with the push/pull trigger It's not worth the effort to change out the trigger arrangement or sell my Dukes and buy Daggers.

[trappincoyotes39]

Beav if you don't see an advanatge to the dagger design so be it, I have and others have just promoting a good product is all. Keep using Dukes but I know what traps I will be buying from here on out for DP types.

[trappnman]

whoa there pilgrims-

first of all- are we really going down that road that if you don't try something you don't need, thats ignorant? as far a "no one posting"- seems that this discussion WAS going down a pretty smooth road, with people giveng reasons why they held a certain point

I really, REALLY doubt, that coon WORK a dagger any more (or less) that any other dp trap.

and here is the first I ever read where that idea has been presented.

I thought the point trying to be made, was that more coon were caught in the daggers, because of the trigger-

or is that wrong? that you don't even need bait or lure in a dagger- just the design of the trap shell, produces coon?

perhaps- that truly is a point I cannot debate- if the dagger, by outer design attracts coon- perhaps they do.................

but what I CAN debate, as can beav, and guys like marty that took 100s of coon in non push triggers can do- is that on good sized coon, with the chosen bait/lure used- are producing 70% as beav stated.

40-50 dinks in a couple of weeks?- I haven't caught 40 dinks in my life- and for those wondering, thats many, many 1000 coon.

so if the claim is daggers give you more dinks- why, guess I can't debate that either.

but just like that damn shockspring- if a problem is not there, its dumb to try to solve it-

as my pappy told me- if it ain't broke, don't fix it....................

what is ONE advantage a push trigger gives guys like me, beav, marty, mm?

lets see..........

still thinking...............

da ta da ta da..................

I'm drawing a blank-

seems like with 70% success rate- the answer would be- none.

now- I've tried to qualify MY response here, by saying perhaps if you had tons of little coon, tons of dinks- that you might see a higher catch with a push/pull.

but my experience shows that if a coon works a griz, etc- hes going to BE THERE in the morning. tracks on snow, do not lie.

so for me (beav et al) a push trigger, gives us NO advantage

on the other hand, if a trap with a push/pull is in itself a coon magnet, then I'll buy a doz.

but until somethings broke- I'm not going to fix it

[motrapperjohn]

There has never been a statement made Where I have made a claim that it will catch all the coon that will work the trap. Only that it will increase your catch ratio and decrease your bait theft. As stated by yourself, myself and many others, the size of the coon has a lot to do with it and the bait you use. I was able to trap some of those northern coon this fall and was amazed that a few of them was even able to get their feet in the traps, so I can relate that you northern guys dont have the problems that some of us do. I get calls every week from trappers that have bought several brands of DPs to test side by side from all over the country ( some have never trapped before) and the results are the same as the author of this topic.
bblwi, I dont think that reg includes rainwater. what I was trying to across in my statement was that the earliest Dps I could find dating back from the mid 50's was all push triggers.

[motrapperjohn]

Steve, here this year at least in Mo and parts of Iowa the coon are spotty at best and a lot of the kits are the size you would expect to see in late June or July. Like one fur buyer said its like they had a second litter. But some areas that had tons of coon sign a few days before season, caught not one coon and no sign after it rained.

[trappincoyotes39]

Easy Gman the daggers have push/pull and if they work down the tube and move the trigger that is game over for those coon, no pussy footing around with a dagger the trigger shape and design allow no room for error on the coons part. If a coon gets down the side of just a pull trigger and can get what it wants and moves on for what ever reason he is done for that Night, no way a coon can get his paw around the trigger and push motion of a dagger, it would be 1 toe only at best and the trap goes pop.

I had one coon that dry bait pulled the trap and am sure tipped it over to get the bait, like a getter I decided to rock it in and the next day there sat the coon, not that he was trap shy just easier in the mid for him to pull and dump it out, until a I rocked it in then easier for him to hand grab and I'm sure due to the design of the trigger and push aspect as soon as he hit the trigger that nailed him. Doesn't matter how "finess" a coon is with a dagger the end result a high majority of the time is a caught coon .

Again those that love grizz and dukes keep on keepin on, but why waste any efficantcy by using only a pull trigger? Unless needed by law? Some are stubborn and that is fine, many will by the dagger and enjoy imense success with them well thought out top to bottom.

[calvin]

Might want to take a look at the iowa site for info on a couple K9s caught in DPs by the tongue. A bad ending. I never thought of the tongue thing myself.

[trappincoyotes39]

what Iowa sight and photos?

[motrapperjohn]

I think one of those was a pull only.

[trappnman]

"those that cannot dance, often blame it on the floor"

a couple things seem to be getting muddled here-

one point is this-

carlis came up with a good idea on the triggers, and thats great. for those that want a push/pull trigger, the option now exists. I have nothing against the concept, and indeed, have tried to stay neutral on the 'dp wars" thats been going on.

but the second point- is that the NEED for such a trigger, isn't always there.

TC- correct me if I'm wrong, but you have used dps very little- this might be your first season, in using them much at all?

and you can say, that others, that have used them for a decade or more- are "wasting effcientcy"?

thats simply not true.

many have mentioned using tubes on pull triggers. have you tried them? if not, why not? advice from those in the know, that DOES increase efficientcy..........

those that have used griz etc for years- have a system of baits, lures, locations, how they are presented etc- that gives them as beav a very high success rate.

different strokes folks, different strokes..............

if the end result is the same- then its simply a matter of PREFERENCE

[blackhammer]

Dec 2, 2011 3:47:21 GMT -6 calvin said:

Might want to take a look at the iowa site for info on a couple K9s caught in DPs by the tongue. A bad ending. I never thought of the tongue thing myself.

When you think of the thousands of dps set many right on lawns for a numbers of years now and the lack of any problems.I don't know it seems to me this has no business on the internet for the time being.I heard one of these cases being talked about by an Iowa guy last summer.These traps are spread all over the midwest and if indeed this is a potential problem you can bet we would have heard more about by now.I think your going to see this all over the net now and will be a mountain made out a molehill and be some fodder for the AR people..

[TurTLe]

I agree blackhammer. I think those stories are Urban Myths. If not, it is something that is so rare, you'd have a better chance of winning the lottery than it happening.

[calvin]

I agree (to a point) on the K9 catch on the other site (iowa trappes talk, TC). I don't think it should be totally forgotten, however. I won't copy and paste and believe little of what is written much of the time. However ADC always seems to have good info. Reliable information is an asset in my book whether it be positive or negative. There are still plenty of guys stilll running cat food in the back of a bucket along dog trails. Had an ordinance/Ban handed down here 2 years ago because of exactly that.

True, however. Bazillion of these things planted everywhere and possibly 2 k9s caught. Is... what it is. Personally I/ll note it and move on. Most of my line will never get a second thought. Some will now, however. "Risk management" is an important concept in the way I trap.

As far as the AR people. I could not possibly care less what they think...but at times it is also good to use their fears or gossip (as they spread via media) against them with solid facts gathered through our experience. Especially when dealing with the citizens that don't know what to believe and have more of a neutral position...which happens to be a great percentage of people some of us deal with around cities.

All my DPs come with, or have been replaced by, (Carlis') two way trigger. It IS better than my old push only triggers. Can't comment on the pull only models. I do like the round trigger as opposed to the single bar. Personally I don't want fiddle fart with tubing down inside the tube (just me) to make it better. Seems a two way trigger with a large pan has the better part covered. I know those who/s catch has increased when they went to the 2 way trigger. Personally, I/ll take those (certain) peoples word for it and just outfit that way from day #1 based on their testing.

For me If I ran straight pull type triggers, I could not possible resist the urge to try a two way trigger and compare for myself. Plenty of people will convince themselves that their way is the best and portray it to all that will listen without trying another way. We see this in any Dodge Vs Chevy Vs ford debate when very few of those at the forefront of the debate have never tried another brand. I am always skeptical of my equipment and have no qualms about switching to a better product when found. I have owned about every brand car/truck made and raced several different brands of motorcycles. I have noted pro and cons to about every brand. I know many that "bleed Dodge" or "bleed Chevy" or whatever brand they feel gushy about because that's all they ever owned. Idiots I say.

I/d also be interested to see if the pull only trigger proponents, were offered their next batch of DPs for the exact same price (pull only vs two way as the 2 ways are abit more money) or for free and nobody was watching them what ones they would grab for.

I would love to rig up some device to find out whether or not my DPs were fired on the PUSH or PULL mode. Not that we can't get a coon to pull after he pushes, however.

But like said. To each his own. We all do this deal differently based on what works for us. Personally I enjoy hearing others methods of what works or doesn't work for them...and I/m all for those who have complete confidence in the pull only triggers. I still get tracks up to a DP once in awhile that won't stick their paw into the trap. We can debate bait all day long but they often sitting 10 feet away at a pocket set. The DP is a "tool" that has expanded my trap line for the better. I can only think of one (well maybe two) situation(s) that would cause me to run them exclusively, however.

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman yep I have a few weeks of use under my belt but the numbers and efficantcy have shown themsleves early on. I'm baseing my comments and end results on what some have said the down falls of the DP's they have used for alot of coons and years, that being: The bait "must" edible for good results, I have found that not to be the case at all with the dagger, push pull doesn't give them much of a chnace to get it to their mouth. Point 2 you get some bait stealing with a set trap, my only bait stealing issues have been dry baits and tipped over traps, zero stealing of paste baits or anything else under a circle trigger that fills 85% + and a down trigger system. The little damage seen with the daggers is great as well and holding ability, the the 45 principle and the added 9ga welded inside makes for a great holding trap and does little for foot damage. The other advantage is the pre set ability of these traps and using pogo anchors makes them wild fast to set and go. I'm having fun and catching my share of coons with great efficantcy what is not to like about these traps? I see zero down side to them at all.

[thorsmightyhammer]

How much has the beav used Dp's?

The old fart was too tight to buy any at the old Griz price.