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Post by trappnman on Nov 7, 2010 20:15:26 GMT -6
do you consider-10 feet diameter small?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 8, 2010 7:28:34 GMT -6
Nope.
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Post by trappnman on Nov 8, 2010 7:31:22 GMT -6
then why would you consider a short chained catch circle, too small?
the length of a coyote, plus the length of the trap, chain- gives you 4-5 feet on all sides of the set.
maybe its the typs of soil- my loam gives me more noticible circles?
I hear of other advantages of longer chains
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 8, 2010 14:46:56 GMT -6
think about running 6-8" of chain and where the smells from that critter will be and then think about 18"-36" of chain and where the smells they deposit will be. Sure a coyote can reach out to the very end of any chain length but the smell concintration will be greater on a smaller chained trap than a larger.
Sure there are others as well, like less swivel freeze up, less dirt and snow mounding at the trap, less stake pumping issues.
I don't run any coyote trap with less than 18" of chain length.
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Post by trappnman on Nov 8, 2010 17:17:40 GMT -6
well, 6-8 inches IS short- mine are 12-18 with swivels
on the montanas, 18 seems to be about right-
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Post by tomsnare on Nov 21, 2010 19:28:47 GMT -6
I use drags on all my cat coyote traps never had one power out with the trap I use so to me chain length is subjective with quality traps-------Tom
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Post by lotsofmink on Nov 28, 2010 1:02:16 GMT -6
I lived in a province where by law we had to use a 12" chain and a 24 hour check law. I almost never caught more than one coyote from a set. And had numerous stake pumping( even with IDS and double staked rebars ) Since Ive been in the west using 4-5 chain. I can say I havent lost a coyote, got as many as 6 coyote from one foot trap, only need one 30" rebar and can run on a three day check with no worry. As far as shoulder damage - a coyote learns quick= like when he runs full out from one side of catch circle to other he figures out quick that hurts dont do that again. Not to mention a coyote on a longer chain will be less stressed(he has movement and can get comfortable). Also not to mention another coyote can see that catch circle an eight of a mile out which is a drawing card.
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Post by ksboy2 on Nov 28, 2010 6:43:15 GMT -6
i think i have it figured out lots of mink....
i paid real close attention to your thread...
"Since Ive been in the west"
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Post by trappnman on Nov 28, 2010 9:22:12 GMT -6
I caught coyotes CONSTANTLY in remakes with "short" 10-12" chains
yes, I'm sure they ARE real comfortable on a 3 day check...................................
a 10-12 inch chain, plus trap and swivels is going to give you a 6-10 feet catch circle- thats just fact.
if you really believe you need a bigger circle- and I've heard this 2 ways as #1 long chains reduce the "hard" catch circle and #2 long chains increase the visibility of catch circles- then use al ong chain.
there ARE reasons, so I hear, regarding fouling, scratching into center, etc for longer chains on longer checks-
but too small a catch circle? not in my observations-
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Post by dabrock on Nov 28, 2010 10:10:29 GMT -6
I have used both long and short chains. Early on in my trapping experience, I read for fox, that is all we had back then 6" was ideal, so I cut mine down, worked ok, over time I have settle on 12" with 3 swevels giving about 14". The catch circle is 10' or more and I have had no problem with additional catches. Also most of my sets locations are in or near brush, only a few open fields. Which means long chains would result in more tangles and possible pull outs or injuries. The point, chain length is revelent to location and preference.
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Post by ChrisM on Nov 28, 2010 19:38:20 GMT -6
Over the past 36 years trapping coyotes my chains have varied from 12 to 36 inches and most length in between. . I haven't ever seen a difference in coyotes working remakes that I would credit to chain lengths. I dont buy the concentrated odor theory. I have seen coyotes work the edge of both small and large circles.... get an inch of snow and the tracks are all over the circle. See the same thing with badger catch circles. I'm convinced its the visuals and the hard lines. Unnatural visuals are IMO the biggest reason for set refusals...both original and remakes. I do prefer 12 to 18 inches just for practical reasons... I like being able to get a trap up on my thigh to set/reset. Also gives me some options in trap placement if I find I need to have the stake out of the bed cause of rocks etc... Also remaking... its often easier to not reuse the original trap bed for various reasons. Nice to be able to move it with out pulling the stake.
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Post by MRussell on Nov 29, 2010 18:51:23 GMT -6
I agree that unnatural visuals are a big factor in remake refusals. I run 12-14 inches of chain and a minimum of three swivel points and am very pleased with the results. I have also noticed a distinct difference between the behavior effects of a 1.75 and a #3 modified Bridger. The yotes are not as spry after being hung in the big steel.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 29, 2010 22:02:14 GMT -6
Chris my referance was what I was seeing years back using the victor 1.75 OS jaw trap they came with a short chain a few links and that triangle swivel, after a catch and remaking you did have a concentration of smells right on the trap, and I had more not want to go directly over the trap and work around it with all that smell in one spot. I used more urine in those days and it helped some, but my mutliple catches picked up when I started buying sterlings and having larger circles and less concintration of smells.
Badger circles and long chains just easier to set the edge IMO and give them the easiest approach from the get go. With those older short chained victors you had little choice, after a catch I always put in a fresh set and it out performed the small circle by a bunch. Many of these where in bean fields so visual was far easier to blend in, but it had merit to me once I switched to longer chains with proper strength traps.
I remember trapping down by Yankton back in the early 90's and having 1 sterling trap catch 5 coyotes each check held a coyote, I have serious doubts of such success with those short chained,small patterned victors doing the same in the time period.
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Post by lotsofmink on Nov 30, 2010 1:40:55 GMT -6
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Post by lotsofmink on Nov 30, 2010 1:49:24 GMT -6
I think he looks comfortable, If he had been short chained he would have swetted the ground up. Maybe your right a muddy coyote is exactly what I want. Some of mine make themselves so much at home, they go right down the hole ! The next coyote that comes within an eight of a mile is gona see this and investigate.
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Post by trappnman on Nov 30, 2010 7:58:30 GMT -6
good post chris- I agree.
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Post by lotsofmink on Nov 30, 2010 12:41:48 GMT -6
I dont know about concentrated smells. But I believe I do know a bit about stakepumping.
Do you see that dry spot to the left of my coyote? He made himself a bed there and it was bone dry. Hes on high ground that gets lots of drainage. I purposely set on badger holes for this reason and visuals. Last year I was cable staked short chained and had a badger dig one out on me. This would not have happended long chained. I had a big bad old dog last year toe caught in a coyote cuffed trap on 3 feet plus chain, it held. I'll say again Ive never lost a coyote on a long chain.I ve lost numerous on short chains. Of all the coyote Ive skinned long chained Ive only seen shoulder damage in one. Their feet seam fine too. I do use a #3 bridger offset double laminated trap. Its common knowledge that a trap that does not cut a coons foot will hold the coon with less stress(fighting, chewing) I think the trap is every bit as important as the chain. For those guys that still insist short chain is the only way let me pose two questions.
1. Have you tried long chains? If you havent, then you dont know what your talking about.
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Post by trappnman on Nov 30, 2010 15:59:49 GMT -6
must depend on the soil- I take a few badgers every year, some years more than a few- and have never had a cable stake or a double stake close to coming free- they just don't dig AT the anchor point for me
I understand pumping a stake very well, thank you- and I also understand that proper double staking or the use of the right cable stakes eliminates that problem 100%.
you mention PROBLEMS you have with "short" chains although its obvious "short" or "long" is semantics- if i don't have any of the problems that you had- and I don't- then long chains have zero advantage for me, and a couple of negatives
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Post by trappnman on Nov 30, 2010 16:02:12 GMT -6
and for the record, before this gets out of hand- no one is insisting short chains are better for all trappers and all scenarios- and neither are 5-10 foot chains.
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Post by ChrisM on Nov 30, 2010 17:04:34 GMT -6
Yes, I have tried long chains...for many years and still use some. I have not had a stake pumped in over 30 years and it was on a 3 foot chain. That includes hundreds of coyotes in the sugar sand of the Nebraska sandhills where you can shove a 30" stake in all the way with the palm of your hand, and 22 years ADC work with extended checks. There is no reason to ever have stakes pumped regardless of chain length.
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